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CCCP84

Big problem with CNCNET's RA2 / YR ore grow algorithm.

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Based on these notes, the developers(or modders) themselves did not fully understand how it all works :

; This may also be ore - DB
; This might be ore, I'm not certain - DB

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Posted (edited)

I remember very well how before the ore was accumulated in the quantity in which it was mined by drill. Individual pieces of ore became larger with time.

The ore field grew larger and could become huge.

Now this is not. Pieces of ore now never increase. And the ore rarely spreads far beyond a radius of 1 cell. There are very rare exceptions, it can spread to 2 or 3 cells, but at the same time the ore layer remains thin and pieces of gold are not enlarged.

Obviously, something is broken here.

Edited by CCCP84
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7 hours ago, Ra2Nub said:

Someone should check both Vanilla RA2 and Vanilla YR

Why you call RA2 "Vanilla"?? Why vanilla?

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Posted (edited)

Not that vanilla that is used for cooking, He means normal RA2 and YR, not modified. Original.

me too in the past didn't understand what they meant when they were saying "Vanilla", until I asked someone about it, he said that it means original, not modified.

Edited by ᅚᅚᅚ

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CCCP84 said:

Why you call RA2 "Vanilla"?? Why vanilla?

Vanilla is a term used for completely unmodified game, or the first version of the game if it has expansions (ex: WoW Classic is Vanilla WoW)
image.png.603f1c2de0ffbb6c051025a204a7734a.png
 

Edited by Ra2Nub

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Posted (edited)
On 4/3/2020 at 10:48 PM, McPwny said:

you can see from the gif that thats not whats happening. it is putting out only a small layer of ore and not stacking like its supposed to. ore is also supposed to spread at a really really slow speed, but i didnt test for that.

What's the time frame for that gif anyway? 15 seconds? It takes minutes to grow bulky.

OP mentioned Tsunami, well I tested it on Tsunami and everything seemed to go normal. It kept growing bit by bit as usual over a continuously expanding radius. Same with Sedona.

 

21 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

Individual pieces of ore became larger with time.

True. Which is still the case.

21 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

Now this is not. Pieces of ore now never increase. And the ore rarely spreads far beyond a radius of 1 cell. There are very rare exceptions, it can spread to 2 or 3 cells, but at the same time the ore layer remains thin and pieces of gold are not enlarged.

I disagree. They do increase and spread, and the layer gets thickened over time.

But let me tell you, once a field is totally mined, it'll never grow back to its original size. not in any case.

 

Edited by Sam-I-am

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well i thought "maby they patched it" since you were insisting that theres nothing wrong w ith it, so i went and checked again. kind of wasted my time since its still broken. 
oof.gif.64fe9c12a329567879912a8b9e3e029a.gif this gif is probably 15 or 20 minutes of ingame time. the last one was about 2

as for what CCCP was saying about the commented bits in rules.ini; those are there because there were extra types of tiberium (ore) leftover from the tiberian sun engine, and the devs were thinking about whether or not they want to add more than 2 kinds of ore. i am almost certain this bug has nothing to do with rules.ini

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7 hours ago, Ra2Nub said:

Vanilla is a term used for completely unmodified game, or the first version of the game if it has expansions (ex: WoW Classic is Vanilla WoW)
image.png.603f1c2de0ffbb6c051025a204a7734a.png
 

thanks

7 hours ago, Sam-I-am said:

OP mentioned Tsunami, well I tested it on Tsunami and everything seemed to go normal. It kept growing bit by bit as usual over a continuously expanding radius. Same with Sedona.

Are you sure? What version of game do you use? Does it work the same in multiplayer?

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@CCCP84 Posting torrent downloads of C&C RA2 / YR is against the rules of CnCNet as the game is still copyrighted and not freeware.

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Posted (edited)

EDIT: Ok i will test your version.

EDIT: Give me 3 hours,

sorry my internet is not so strong.

Edited by ᅚᅚᅚ

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Posted (edited)

CCCP84

Your version has ccd files and img files......I don't know how to install those.

I am sorry

Edited by ᅚᅚᅚ

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

Are you sure?

It just seems to me that nothing has ever changed.

12 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

What version of game do you use?

Latest version. no mods. no alterations.

12 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

Does it work the same in multiplayer?

Yep. same thing.

Even when the gold stops spreading around. it keeps accumulating.

Edited by Sam-I-am

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3 hours ago, Sam-I-am said:

It just seems to me that nothing has ever changed.

seems and sure these are 2 big differenses, as we say in Odessa ...

3 hours ago, Sam-I-am said:

Even when the gold stops spreading around. it keeps accumulating.

How?

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I can tell you on Xwis, I would always have my miners mine around the ore regenerator so you could have more money in long game, and you could physically see the ore regenerating throughout gameplay. It was slow, but Not epically slow.

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Posted (edited)

Why does it even matter? as long as the same thing applies to all players... 

I mean, it's not like you're getting less gold than the others, so why is it a problem that the process has become slower? (assuming that that's the case) players are gonna have to fight with less units, and so what?!

You want more money to make a massive army but you don't like crates because of the luck factor? well then increase credits! problem solved.

Edited by Sam-I-am

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The problem is that the player will have to check every 2 minutes to see if the miners have collected all the gold, and if they have stopped.

Otherwise, the gold begins to be lost while other players collect it, every 2 minutes again sending miners to collect it.

Do not keep an eye on miners = lose money = lose in game. And keeping eye on miners all the time is not interesting. Instead, I want to play, and not waste time on stupid, regular, monotonous actions. The problem is very unpleasant.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

The problem is that the player will have to check every 2 minutes to see if the miners have collected all the gold, and if they have stopped.

Which applies to all players, not just some of them, right?

6 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

Otherwise, the gold begins to be lost while other players collect it, every 2 minutes again sending miners to collect it.

Do not keep an eye on miners = lose money = lose in game. And keeping eye on miners all the time is not interesting. Instead, I want to play, and not waste time on stupid, regular, monotonous actions. The problem is very unpleasant.

Well, that's your problem, mate. and I'm sorry that you consider that a problem :D

Miners stop working after they collect all the available gold. That's normal. Nothing new. It's part of the game. Meant to be that way.

Keeping an eye on your miners can be crucial. I've played thousands of games and watched many, and sometimes, that particular thing does give an advantage, which is fair in my opinion.

I've seen many players set on tons of accumulated gold, leaving their miners idle, at a time when they needed money so badly, while others kept their miners working and gained the benefit of that. The one who pays more attention gets rewarded. Totally fair. You need to do more to get more.

Players who check to see if their miners are working deserve the extra money they get, and those who don't, are naive to say the least and have no right to complain. Especially if they know what to do. Generally speaking. No offense. Nothing personal.

There are many things to care about while playing. Collecting gold being one of them. Taking a look at your miners every now and then is a very trivial, simple thing to do anyway. Something that's not even worth talking about.

Good Luck.

Edited by Sam-I-am

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Thank god you don't have to prompt every unit to fire at nearby enemy units :D

6 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

Do not keep an eye on miners = lose money = lose in game.

Do not keep an eye on BFs = lose BFs = lose in game.

Keep an eye on everything = beat your enemies = win the game.

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Everything is very fair and everything is in equal conditions, only the game does not work as it was intended. It's broken. And this creates a lot of inconvenience. For example, as I already wrote, gold does not accumulate on an abandoned island. The value of the island does not grow with time. it is uninteresting and wrong. Previously, the game worked as it should. Someone broke it.

If you like the whole game of poking miners, this is your problem. I want to play. And I pay attention to this CNC team. Although, it seems, everyone does not care ..

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, CCCP84 said:

the game does not work as it was intended. It's broken.

I don't think so.

38 minutes ago, CCCP84 said:

gold does not accumulate on an abandoned island.

It still does.

38 minutes ago, CCCP84 said:

If you like the whole game of poking miners, this is your problem.

I like everything about the game, including that. and I have no problem with it.

I'm not the one who wrote this topic which is titled "Big problem", you did :D so if there is a problem, it's yours, not mine.

By the way, miners stop working only after ALL accessible gold in the map runs out. If there's still some in other spots, they'll go for it, even if it's far away from home, to keep providing you with constant income without you interfering.

Although that sounds good, and I assume it suits you well, I've seen other players complain about how their "stupid miners" are endangering themselves by going to other spots to bring more gold. Which is another thing that can be exploited by one player against another. Which makes the game even more interesting.

It's impossible to please everyone, right? There will always be people that will complain. But you know that things are all right when you see that the vast majority are pleased, and only a few people are complaining.

Edited by Sam-I-am

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

The problem is that the player will have to check every 2 minutes to see if the miners have collected all the gold, and if they have stopped.

Otherwise, the gold begins to be lost while other players collect it, every 2 minutes again sending miners to collect it.

 

1 hour ago, CCCP84 said:

gold does not accumulate on an abandoned island.

There is no difference between an abandoned island and an occupied one when it comes to the accumulation of unmined gold.

if it grows on an occupied island, it grows on an abandoned one as well. wherever there is a drill.

So yesterday the problem was keeping an eye on the gold, which does accumulate, but needs to be looked-at every 2 minutes (as you suggested), and now the problem is that it never accumulates??

Perfect contradiction?

Is there really any problem? and if so, what exactly is it? Get your story straight, mate :D

Which of your previous comments is the correct one? Does the gold accumulate slowly or not at all?

On 4/4/2020 at 5:34 AM, CCCP84 said:

ore layer never will become thick. It always will be thin. And in 95% cases only in 1 cell radius.

so, it does accumulate but slowly, which contradicts what you said about abandoned spots.

On 4/3/2020 at 9:44 PM, CCCP84 said:

 I remember good, that on tsunami ~ 4 years ago it worked good. Later it stoped working. Something happened(even on version 1.006, not CNCNET). V1.006 was changed??

 

On 4/4/2020 at 5:34 AM, CCCP84 said:

But i remember, before it worked normaly. ~4 years ago it worked. Now its broken.

I guess you're talking about the years when you used to play offline before you were introduced to CnCNet. Well, game speed is significantly faster when playing offline, and that affects all aspects of the game, including the accumulation of gold, of course. So, you'd be right to think that you used to get more amounts in less time, but that's because the speed online is slower, not because something is broken.

Edited by Sam-I-am

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Posted (edited)

gold does not accumulate and does not spread. before it used to work fine and online too.

Edited by CCCP84

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this thread has become a shitpost. 

someone just make a map with some ore drills in it, load it on the cncnet client, set the game speed to max, and see if the ore grows/spreads. If it does spread and grow, nothing has changed; and if it doesnt grow and spread, something is broken.

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I already posted it - it doesn't spread more than 3 tiles away from tibs, at least in skirmish mode.

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