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Hungry Mike

Cnc TD Remaster = Only 4 player games, idiot harvs

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Posted (edited)

Why shall we pay 20 € for a game with no changes at all? The graphic is different, lol - play TS, then you have a better graphic too.

I heard they didnt make harvs 1 inch smarter. Their smart idea: Lets make games with 4 players maximum.

Why shall we buy and play this? It seems like EA just wants to throw out the next programmed-in-a-rush cash cow.

Just: CHANGE IT! MAKE THE HARVS SMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAARRRRRRTTTTTEEEEEEERRRR!!!!! Terminate the bugs (freeze bug) and make games with 6 or 8 players possible.

Edited by Hungry Mike

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I know how you feel Mike but we can only hope they add more players later on.

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If this is true, then the harvesters not being smarter is a let down for me. I heard they didn't want to change something that affects the gameplay much and trying to stick to the original. They don''t want it to be like OpenTD/OpenRA where it feels like a completely different game.

TD originally never had 6-8 players. Would be fun if they do it on the remasters but who cares, 3v3 always feel like 1v3 and ffa always feels like 1v5.

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You are forgetting 2v2v2 ore. That game mode was really fun.

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On Twitter, Jim said they "found it challenging to improve certain AI mechanics", but nothing's really been confirmed one way or another, and there's really no saying whether that referred to things like the wall ignoring issues or the harvesters; those things are completely different. AI is a rather broad thing.

And, do note, that tweet was over a month ago. They might have dug up more useful stuff in the code by now.

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Posted (edited)

4 players and not 8 like in RA1 is like bringing out a a FPS game with only 2 players in multiplayer today, its bound to be hated because people are used to and prefer more!

 

Thanks to Nyer for enabling 6 its so much better than 4 player. Pretty much everyone agree's. Few want to play a 4 player game when a 5/6 player one is available. 

 

Open RA Tiberium Dawn for example has 8/10 players, thats one of its best "selling" points. A few of us left this community for it, for that sole reason ie the increased numbers of players. 

 

Other mods made off the back of other game engines with tiberium dawn mods didnt reduce numbers down to 4 if they could. So while there are few TD mods they all have more than 4 players and there are some, same goes for simlar games and similar mods, thats how much people prefer higher numbers of players

 

All rts games since c&c1 went higher than 4 players, because they can due to connection/processor speeds increasing and because everyone prefers it. 

 

Having the option is clearly better than only having 4 as a max even if its just in custom games with custom maps because you can always go back to 4 or 2 if you prefer it that way, but a ton of people prefer bigger games, as you can see in ra1 also in the lobby, so just having an option is clearly the better decision. Its not like the original c&c1 maps were remotely balanced anyway if thats the main reason preventing this form happening in the remasters. 

 

The closest game to TD is RA1 and 90% or more prefer the bigger maps and maximum players. So from a selling and a success perspective EA should include this in TD too. I dont think slightly larger maps will throw the game balance out too much either, not any more than it is already, its more down to the map design itself. 

 

They updated the music and graphics, to a modern quality, added a skirmish. Skirmish being another thing all modern rts 's incorporated and most people prefer, why not do the same for the game features like number of players, or say a few balanced tournament maps where fair play can be had, to get the same basic loved modern standards that the original hadnt quite achieved yet. Im not saying change the game fundamentally  just add a little* more to modernize it 

 

I could think of more but you get my point most people like tiberium dawn but also most people want to have a 1v1 on a map where the winner isnt decided by starting position, and also in the same way most people like to have the option of more than 4 players because you can always choose to play with less, and most find more enjoyable as do most find fair basically somewhat balanced maps more enjoyable.  

 

Even though unbalanced maps, glitches, and low numbers of players is tiberium dawn few like that inferior old design that hadn't been thought through properly or hadnt had a chance to evolve yet because it was one of the first of its kind and processor/internet speeds were far more of a limit than they are today

Edited by Tiber Shark
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Come on. There is no excuse in this remake to:

  • Not change the harvesting AI, as it is currently pretty basic.
  • Not changing the AI attack targeting, as it always attacks the northwest unit, ignore unreachable terrains, etc. That is absolutely lame.
  • Not allowing maps at least four times bigger, doubling each dimension size.
  • Not allowing some more advanced map scripting, as it is in RA.
  • Rework the network protocol.
  • Release a CD-quality soundtrack. There is still musics in the original game that are still not available in CD-like formats.

We are not asking for a new balance or a rewrite from the ground up. That is what OpenRA is, and we don`t expect another OpenRA. I expect the same game with improvements in the AI and in the maps, not how, for instance, the AGT and Obeliks shoots from one cell up, the ability to base-crawl and other details that make this game unique.

To take a stand about what I expect, take for example how the Turok series was remastered for the PC. It is the same game, just patching that glitchy and jittered aiming mechanic, a less intense fog, improved framerate, completely eliminating pretty much all bad points in that game and providing a much more pleasurable gaming experience. It is not a new game, it is just the old on steroids. That is what I expect from this release.

I hope they address these issues in the future, and they didn`t create so much hype for it to be another disappointment in C&C Series.

 

By the way, 20 euros can be really expensive if you are not paying in Euros ;D

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2020 at 8:54 PM, MrParrot said:

Come on. There is no excuse in this remake to:

  • Not change the harvesting AI, as it is currently pretty basic.
  • Not changing the AI attack targeting, as it always attacks the northwest unit, ignore unreachable terrains, etc. That is absolutely lame.
  • Not allowing maps at least four times bigger, doubling each dimension size.
  • Not allowing some more advanced map scripting, as it is in RA.
  • Rework the network protocol.
  • Release a CD-quality soundtrack. There is still musics in the original game that are still not available in CD-like formats.

We are not asking for a new balance or a rewrite from the ground up. That is what OpenRA is, and we don`t expect another OpenRA. I expect the same game with improvements in the AI and in the maps, not how, for instance, the AGT and Obeliks shoots from one cell up, the ability to base-crawl and other details that make this game unique.

To take a stand about what I expect, take for example how the Turok series was remastered for the PC. It is the same game, just patching that glitchy and jittered aiming mechanic, a less intense fog, improved framerate, completely eliminating pretty much all bad points in that game and providing a much more pleasurable gaming experience. It is not a new game, it is just the old on steroids. That is what I expect from this release.

I hope they address these issues in the future, and they didn`t create so much hype for it to be another disappointment in C&C Series.

 

By the way, 20 euros can be really expensive if you are not paying in Euros ;D

Very well said, keeps the classic how it is, if you want 4 players and a small map you can have that, so it stays authentic and true to the old game, but also updates it to modern standards so glitches or old limited features are gone. 

How hard is it to get it right when you have a 22.1 billion dollar company. I frequently see just normal fans do a better job of it than multi billion dollar companies with content that people like/want. 

Im stunned that they can be so out of touch with the reality of what the fans want. I know we all want different things but what you described caters to everyone or the highest number of people, including the minority of fanatics who want it exactly how it was almost.

Its simple obvious a perfect answer. I mean its what Westwood did with RA1 almost, and that was originally just an add on to tiberium dawn anyway. (the rest of the rts games out just after ra1 and c&c1 did the same thing bigger maps more players less glitches better ai)  

Edited by Tiber Shark

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It's a shame not to see more players, but they may patch it later.
If they were going to change some AI, then it'd have made sense to change more stuff.
I think they wanted to release the original and then go from there. It makes some sense.

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On 5/19/2020 at 9:54 PM, MrParrot said:

Come on. There is no excuse in this remake to:

There's your problem, then.

This is not a remake. This is a remaster of the original game.

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The "may" part, is what gets me waiting another 3 years.

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12 hours ago, Nyerguds said:

There's your problem, then.

This is not a remake. This is a remaster of the original game.

s/remake/remaster/g    The argument is the same :P

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We're working on adding 8 player support to TD for CnCnet.

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If they plan to patch the game often, they can launch it as the original and check the fan response in the sequence.

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They released the full source code to the original game so we can do what we want now.

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Now that the game is out, has anyone confirmed the OP's fears? IS the harvester and unit targeting AI still the same?

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It is the same still.

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On 6/3/2020 at 1:15 AM, Iran said:

They released the full source code to the original game so we can do what we want now.

Have you managed to recompile it, or you are still looking into the code and modifying the assembler?

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It's missing some support logic. Some professional game software developer is working on fixing that and he seems to be almost done. There will be an open-source community project on GitHub.

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Posted (edited)

I will buy it this week, but boy is this speed shit. If they wont change it... it will be go down quickly. Why no high speed ffs? 4 players max? Stupid harvs? We dont have to go back to the medieval times, although i like it historically lol. I saw some of Whites games, and thats not TD. The speed is like we are playing a game 200 before Christ was born lol.

Edited by Hungry Mike

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Posted (edited)

I played this yesterday afternoon, and here is my first impression about this game.

Graphics: They did a good job in my opinion. They implemented movement acceleration, everything looks crisp and clear, and seems faithful to the original game. Surely some animations like the Comm. Center rotation could be smoother by having more frames, but that's ok.

Sound: Everything sounds great in this game, just like in a modern game. However, when units are not visible, sounds played on the west, outside of visible area, get played on right headphone channel, which always get me confused. Also, that Tiberium Sons soundtrack is awesome!

AI: It was indeed improved.  Now it looks like I am playing against Dune 2000 or Red Alert 1 AI, which is a great addition to what we got in TD. And yes, they kept that stupid harvester AI.

Gameplay: Things are different, which is great for ones, bad of others. Better in a way that we now get a really precise mouse cursor that moves as if I was moving it in my desktop, which is great. Unit queuing and healthbar showing is also very interesting, which makes it easier to micro-manage and focus on damaged units. The Tiberium growth rate was increased too.

Now about the singleplayer: It seems that developers didn't test all missions. GDI Mission 8b (Defend Moebius) is a nightmare with this settings. First because they decided to make all civilians stupid and move everywhere, attack your units for no reason, thus leaving you no other choice than using lethal force and sandbagging the entire city. I failed it once because I had to kill so many civilians :P. The increased Tiberium spawn also made it harder to control that Tiberium spread across the city.

About Multiplayer: Now it runs on normal speed, just as it did when played on Dial-up modems back then. This drastically changed the gameplay, as it now benefits players that micro-manage units and have a more efficient economy. From all games that I have played so far, none of them evolved to a later game situation where both players had superweapons or multiple CY and creeped the other player with obelisks, which is pretty usual on CnCNet. Also, it looks like it only includes the original maps (Green Acres, Nowhere to Hide, Red Sands and Tiberium Garden). Weren't there community maps included? Surely most of them couldn't be added due to copyright issues. Now, since the original maps have small Tib. Fields, The increased Tiberium spread is welcome here. Also, does this game add support for larger maps? Very well, why aren't them available then? With regard to networking, IIRC, the 4-player limit was present when playing this game on LAN, and I have no idea how CnCNet devs managed to get 6 to work. Also, units movement when playing online looks as laggy as the original, which means they probably didn't reworked on that.

Now comes some technical questions: Why the hell that game have so many frame drops, with audio dropping as well? That is still a 2D game with no fancy effects, absurd poligons, dynamic lightning and stuff. Mostly of it are planes and pre-rendered animations, and therefore don't think the reason behind it is due to transparency calculation. I could be wrong, tho, but I can't see why a 8th Gen Core-i7 APU can't run it stable. Note that I am not speaking about 60fps, I am complaining about absurd framedrops.

Overall, the game pretty faithful to the original, and the work done was indeed great. That indeed is worth the value I played on it. I just hope that now the developers maintain the game with care, improving the game optimization, fixing bugs, and leting it live, just like what Valve does with their classics. It is not, by far, a bad game from a multiplayer perspective, but it can (and should be) improved. Hope that they does it with time.

[edit]

Come on. Remastered Hard difficulty just changes multipliers? A light tank can easily destroy a medium tank? wtf!

Edited by MrParrot

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