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Tiber Shark

How is the remasters better than C&C at CnCNet ?

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Posted (edited)

What will be improved and what will be inferior? 

 

Pros

- Bigger community

- Better graphics 

-

-

Cons 

- Less players in a game only 4 

-

-

 

It could be worse than what we have here.  Have they even changed anything bar the graphics and music quality? They have taken away game play features not added any. Now we have only 4 players?

Is it only a very superficial change that updates the shiny package, but makes the contents exactly the same or rather inferior? 

 

Edited by Tiber Shark

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The only cons I can think of is that it's not freeware and very expensive (but it's C&C, still worth every cent). I think it's only fair if I judge it more once I play it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ore_truck said:

The only cons I can think of is that it's not freeware and very expensive (but it's C&C, still worth every cent). I think it's only fair if I judge it more once I play it.

I will do the same, does anyone know if the range advantage from bottom will be fixed? Or is it basically the exact same game,  flaws as well? 

Edited by Tiber Shark

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4 hours ago, ore_truck said:

The only cons I can think of is that it's not freeware and very expensive (but it's C&C, still worth every cent). I think it's only fair if I judge it more once I play it.

Wait, how is $20 "very expensive" for two games, three expansion packs, seven hours of remastered music and four hour of bonus behind the scenes video material? Not to mention, skirmish in C&C1 :P

WC3: Reforged didn't have any bonus material and cost 1.5 times that much.

 

Oh don't forget, an official map editor, with full scripting support. To anyone who's messed with teamtypes, there are a lot of still-unknown values in there.

This editor is official. Think about that for a second. Nothing is unknown to the people who have the source code :)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Nyerguds said:

Wait, how is $20 "very expensive" for two games, three expansion packs, seven hours of remastered music and four hour of bonus behind the scenes video material? Not to mention, skirmish in C&C1 :P

WC3: Reforged didn't have any bonus material and cost 1.5 times that much.

 

Oh don't forget, an official map editor, with full scripting support. To anyone who's messed with teamtypes, there are a lot of still-unknown values in there.

This editor is official. Think about that for a second. Nothing is unknown to the people who have the source code :)

can anyone really go back to 4 players though? Every RTS game since has had 8 or more players. Its HORRIBLE to go back to 4 and 6 isnt great either. Its a shame they cant have that as an option for unofficial maps and games, I understand its designed for 4 map wise, but to have only the options of a game made for a 28k modem, in this day and age yikes!

Every single mod of tiberium dawn has also increased the number of players also. Other old games have the exact same thing done ie they r given modern features and mods there of. Its madness to only have 4

Edited by Tiber Shark

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3 hours ago, Tiber Shark said:

Every single mod of tiberium dawn has also increased the number of players also.

Um. Right. I enabled it with my patch, and... cncnet adopted that... and that's it. I think you severely overestimate the amount of "mods" for Tiberian Dawn.

And it caused quite some issues, and I really don't know if those ever got truly fixed. I remember weird stuff like multiple players spawning on the same spot and stuff like that.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Nyerguds said:

Um. Right. I enabled it with my patch, and... cncnet adopted that... and that's it. I think you severely overestimate the amount of "mods" for Tiberian Dawn.

And it caused quite some issues, and I really don't know if those ever got truly fixed. I remember weird stuff like multiple players spawning on the same spot and stuff like that.

 

I would counter with these points....

 

Thanks for enabling 6 its so much better than 4 player. Pretty much everyone agree's. Few want to play a 4 player game when a 5/6 player one is available. 

 

Open RA Tiberium Dawn for example has 8/10 players, thats one of its best "selling" points. A few of us left this community for it, for that sole reason ie the increased numbers of players. 

 

Other mods made off the back of other game engines with tiberium dawn mods didnt reduce numbers down to 4 if they could. So while there are few TD mods they all have more than 4 players and there are some, same goes for simlar games and similar mods, thats how much people prefer higher numbers of players

 

All rts games since c&c1 went higher than 4 players, because they can due to connection/processor speeds increasing and because everyone prefers it. 

 

Having the option is clearly better than only having 4 as a max even if its just in custom games with custom maps because you can always go back to 4 or 2 if you prefer it that way, but a ton of people prefer bigger games, as you can see in ra1 also in the lobby, so just having an option is clearly the better decision. Its not like the original c&c1 maps were remotely balanced anyway if thats the main reason preventing this form happening in the remasters. 

 

The closest game to TD is RA1 and 90% or more prefer the bigger maps and maximum players. So from a selling and a success perspective EA should include this in TD too. I dont think slightly larger maps will throw the game balance out too much either, not any more than it is already, its more down to the map design itself. 

 

They updated the music and graphics, to a modern quality, added a skirmish. Skirmish being another thing all modern rts 's incorporated and most people prefer, why not do the same for the game features like number of players, or say a few balanced tournament maps where fair play can be had, to get the same basic loved modern standards that the original hadnt quite achieved yet. Im not saying change the game fundamentally  just add a little* more to modernize it 

 

I could think of more but you get my point most people like tiberium dawn but also most people want to have a 1v1 on a map where the winner isnt decided by starting position, and also in the same way most people like to have the option of more than 4 players because you can always choose to play with less, and most find it more enjoyable as do most find basically balanced maps more enjoyable.  

 

Even though unbalanced maps, glitches, and low numbers of players is tiberium dawn few like that inferior old design that hadn't been thought through properly or hadnt had a chance to evolve yet because it was one of the first of its kind and processor/internet speeds were far more of a limit than they are today

Edited by Tiber Shark

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2 hours ago, Tiber Shark said:

All rts games since c&c1 went higher than 4 players, because they can due to connection/processor speeds increasing and because everyone prefers it. 

All RTS games since C&C1 have bigger maps, though.

We identified the original secret password to unlock the 6-player option in early versions of the game, and the password was "crowded". I'd say that sums it up.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Nyerguds said:

All RTS games since C&C1 have bigger maps, though.

We identified the original secret password to unlock the 6-player option in early versions of the game, and the password was "crowded". I'd say that sums it up.

I mean they put skirmish in the game, red alert 1 is a similar engine, why cant they allow bigger custom maps and more players ?  Surely thats alot easier to implement than skirmish? 

 You can still get everything on the map without it looking silly in 6 player maps, at a push you could do it with 8 people on these tiny maps there would just be less money to go around, even with a massive need for extra tiberium 6 player still works well. See some of the well made 6 player custom maps, its still quite spacious with plenty of room for high tiberium and  money

Also who says crowded is a bad thing? You could say space and sparse is a bad thing and crowded is action packed and stimulating to our lower brain. 

Nearly everyone enjoys more players and are disappointed  by 4. 

While the original maps dont work so well with higher numbers they still work, they also dont function as good maps period so I can see their intention, but its clear they have got it wrong on this one, from a popular opinion standpoint and even from a debate/argument standpoint ie it makes more sense to have bigger maps with more players for custom options. 

If I was over at EA running things id have it open as 8 players, have the option to make larger maps with the map editor, and put a note warning players that some maps are made with a specific lower number of players in mind the official ones or have a folder for lower number intended maps .

That way you get the best of both worlds. I mean you or you guys made it 6 player here at cnc.net yourself?  

A few EA made tournament maps wouldnt be a bad option either because its a bit silly having a ranked game on a map where a win is decided by start position.  Even if that means just modifying existing maps to make them more balanced/even. 

I appreciate you are very into the original game but you must admit it was early days and  they hadnt got the formula down as well as later iterations of RTS games, not in every aspect!?

Edited by Tiber Shark

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Posted (edited)

I just made a mock up 8 player map on the tiny TD maps you can make it work still and even have plenty of money and good looking terrain , I mean its probably not hard for them to add map sizes  but even if they couldn't its not that hard to make an 8 player map work on these tiny maps,  I think there are ra1 maps with the same dynamic going on, yea its not ideal  but its another flavor of map  to play on, and if they can put a skirmish ai in they can easily give us bigger custom maps, surely?

 

See the mock up 4v4 tiberium dawn map  below its alot more spacious seeming in the real game, and look plenty of room even with big bases and all units built you can maneuver everyone has enough cash, it can be pretty , there's terrain and path directions and thats on these tiny maps

 

If we dont voice it now it may be fixed as 4 for good and if it is we have the better product here at cnc.net in terms of a multiplayer format 

 

 

4v4smallmaps.jpg

Edited by Tiber Shark

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Baseless assumptions. Disjointed ramblings. Ugly maps. Chem alert. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, cn2mc said:

Baseless assumptions. Disjointed ramblings. Ugly maps. Chem alert. 

Hi fella, Im not chem,  hope your day picks up!

Edited by Tiber Shark

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Was pretty picked up, I gather... Cheers!

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Snarky comments aside, I didn't mean to derail the topic. Some questions are valid. Will the TD remaster have bigger maps, fixed south advantage and other crucial bugs and control issues? It seems that the answer to bigger maps is 'no', otherwise why keep the player limit? Harvs will probably also remain as stupid as ever. But how about south advantage, air unit control, transport loading?

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Eisengeist said:

Has anyone seen that they're releasing the source code to TiberianDawn.dll and RedAlert.dll  under GPL version 3.0 license?!

https://www.neowin.net/news/tiberian-dawn-and-red-alert-will-be-partially-open-sourced-alongside-remaster-launch

Hopefully those options extend to map size and number of players too. You have to hand it to EA they have been paying close attention to the community and what we are doing. Thanks for the post

Edited by Tiber Shark

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On 5/13/2020 at 12:05 PM, Tiber Shark said:

What will be improved and what will be inferior? 

 

Pros

- Bigger community

- Better graphics 

-

-

Cons 

- Less players in a game only 4 

- CONS-truction Yard :P

-

 

 

All the pros will make you forget about the cons :P...

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One glitch that is TD specific is the wall glitch. Very, very few people know about this glitch so it is why I'm gonna let you guys try to figure it out for yourselves :). Feel free to message me if you think you have found it out and how to do it and be sure to show some form of evidence. Don't think EA knew about this glitch and I don't even think Westwood knew about this glitch either. Either way, still needs to be a bug/glitch (whatever you wanna call it) that forever remains because its impossible to for it to do bad things unintentionally. You have to manually do the actions necessary in order for this to work. Cheers!

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It's worse because of the modern gamers asking for a lot of unneeded stuffs. Double-clicking selects all units of the same type on screen, which is very annoying if you are trying to deploy your APC or select a primary building.

Pressing the 'Select All in View' key or dragging mouse to create a selection box does not include harvesters and MCV for some dumb reason. Whenever I start a multiplayer game  where I want to move my MCV and the starting units, I had to do it twice because the MCV is left out. I even lost a harvester because I failed to select it before it went docking in the refinery where I can no longer save it.

I prefer my cncnet sidebar a million times more than the sidebar with the tedious production tabs. But since (I believe) the original game only had 8 production buttons on the sidebar without mouse wheel support, I am not complaining about it.

There are some good stuffs about it, the mission select screen for the campaign, bonus content, music, ease of finding a match (quickmatch, and custom games have more people than in the cncnet lobby) and unlike cncnet, you don't get to play on these stupid maps with a capturable Construction Yard near your base or a prebuilt base with 20 obelisks. The ability to target airborne units is good, although it's game-changing, especially for the Orca (the computer can do that in the original, now it doesn't feel like it's cheating on that part).

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2020 at 6:25 AM, ore_truck said:

It's worse because of the modern gamers asking for a lot of unneeded stuffs. Double-clicking selects all units of the same type on screen, which is very annoying if you are trying to deploy your APC or select a primary building.

Pressing the 'Select All in View' key or dragging mouse to create a selection box does not include harvesters and MCV for some dumb reason. Whenever I start a multiplayer game  where I want to move my MCV and the starting units, I had to do it twice because the MCV is left out. I even lost a harvester because I failed to select it before it went docking in the refinery where I can no longer save it.

I prefer my cncnet sidebar a million times more than the sidebar with the tedious production tabs. But since (I believe) the original game only had 8 production buttons on the sidebar without mouse wheel support, I am not complaining about it.

There are some good stuffs about it, the mission select screen for the campaign, bonus content, music, ease of finding a match (quickmatch, and custom games have more people than in the cncnet lobby) and unlike cncnet, you don't get to play on these stupid maps with a capturable Construction Yard near your base or a prebuilt base with 20 obelisks. The ability to target airborne units is good, although it's game-changing, especially for the Orca (the computer can do that in the original, now it doesn't feel like it's cheating on that part).

Who are you in game Ore truck did u used to play tiberium dawn?

 

I noticed you are firneds with smt blusy and mike pence?

Edited by Tiber Shark

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On 6/14/2020 at 12:37 AM, Jacob Foerster said:

One glitch that is TD specific is the wall glitch. Very, very few people know about this glitch so it is why I'm gonna let you guys try to figure it out for yourselves :). Feel free to message me if you think you have found it out and how to do it and be sure to show some form of evidence. Don't think EA knew about this glitch and I don't even think Westwood knew about this glitch either. Either way, still needs to be a bug/glitch (whatever you wanna call it) that forever remains because its impossible to for it to do bad things unintentionally. You have to manually do the actions necessary in order for this to work. Cheers!

What, you mean this one?

 

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It's better because its official. There is a lot of hope in the air with the source code being released as well.

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Posted (edited)

Chem seeks for attention, so sad. As for the remaster: Now that they finally made the speed better, i want to buy it. Then i find out you cant buy it in a normal store, but you have to use some online shit for Steam. I dont like that at all; giving information away to some companies (PayPal) only to buy a game for 20 €. I guess its too hard for Steam to just use a normal bank transaction? Rofl.

Edited by Hungry Mike

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Hungry Mike said:

Chem seeks for attention, so sad. As for the remaster: Now that they finally made the speed better, i want to buy it. Then i find out you cant buy it in a normal store, but you have to use some online shit for Steam. I dont like that at all; giving information away to some companies (PayPal) only to buy a game for 20 €. I guess its too hard for Steam to just use a normal bank transaction? Rofl.

I know what happened to you Pence and what turned you bad, I feel sorry for you and I forgive you bro. This is not even Chem 

Edited by Tiber Shark

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