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MrFlibble

FTP demo weirdness

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Since no one has replied to my post at CNCNZ Forums, I'm re-posting it here:

 

Recently I've been playing the downloadable version of the C&C demo, and noticed that in the second mission (originally GDI mission 10) the civilians are by default treated as hostiles by the player's units, and any civilian that happens to get in the range of a GDI unit gets automatically attacked. Nod also attacks civilians, as it should be.

 

I don't have the full version right now, but certainly GDI should be friendly to civilians by default? I have compared the scenario INI files from the demo and the original ones Nyer has on his site, and the full versions scenario does not have any extra lines to enable allied status between GDI and civilians - unlike that Nod scenario where the civilians are Nod's allies, which uses the "Allies" variable to override default settings:

[badGuy]

FlagHome=0

FlagLocation=0

MaxBuilding=150

Allies=BadGuy,Neutral

MaxUnit=692

Edge=North

Credits=0

 

[Neutral]

FlagHome=0

FlagLocation=0

MaxBuilding=150

Allies=BadGuy,Neutral

MaxUnit=150

Edge=North

Credits=0

I haven't yet checked the CD demo, but at any rate this is a bit confusing. Also, to complicate matters further, it seems that in the next demo mission (the Commando mission) civilians are mutually friendly with GDI, as it should be.

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one idea: check also if all civilians are "neutral" and check what is stated in the briefings.

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I pretty much think that Westwood forgot to add the neutral as gdi ally to these missions. It happens in a bunch of missions, notabily on the NOD ones. The ones I can remember are:

 

NOD Mission 7B (This one is hillarious)

NOD Mission 12.

NOD Mission 13B.

 

GDI N64 Special 1. (Dunno if Nyerguds fixed it when porting it to PC)

 

In NOD Mission 7B, where you must destroy the village located at the north of the GDI's base, if you simple reveal the village, GDI will attack the civillians, doing the mission for you. :P

 

 

I don't remeber having this issue on GDI Mission 10. If Neutral isn't marked GDI's ally, then obiously it is going to happen too.

Maybe Nyerguds already fixed it, and the stuff in his site is outdated :)

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On a similar note on NOD 13b sometimes GDI hovercraft get stuck at the bottom of the map and afaik you can't win because they are indestructible

But yes these civilian erm.... accidents.... don't happen a lot but are quite helpful when they do

 

also on NOD 13c theres a collection of civilian buildings owned by GDI that have to be destroyed for you to win, but also supply a small amount of power to the GDI bases

I'm not sure this is intended behaviour but it's worth knowing about

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also on NOD 13c theres a collection of civilian buildings owned by GDI that have to be destroyed for you to win, but also supply a small amount of power to the GDI bases

I'm not sure this is intended behaviour but it's worth knowing about

Them being GDI is intended. Them producing power was a kind of fix I made to stop civilian buildings from decaying without any reason. I know it's not an ideal solution, though.

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So there's no hardcoded automatic GoodGuy/Neutral alliance by default? Somehow I had this impression that this was the case, and frankly, I never noticed the absence of it before...

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Nope, it's all set up in the mission files. They ARE automatically calculated as friendly casualties on the GDI score screen, though  :S

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They ARE automatically calculated as friendly casualties on the GDI score screen, though  :S

Ah, that's what it is. And I was wondering why only Nod has a separate counter for civilians on the score screen...

 

Well, if that is the case, then there seems to be not exactly too few GDI missions where the devs forgot to put the alliance with civilians on. Granted, the village in mission 10 from the demo is quite away from the Nod base so the entire mission can be won without even encountering any civilians, but still it's quite an oversight.

 

As for the civilian building power consumption, was it impossible to just set it to zero? Also, I forgot, is this issue relevant for all versions of the game, or only for the Win95 version?

 

On yet another note, I vaguely remember reading somewhere about some of the civilian buildings that actually have normal base building functions (radar, barracks and even the Ion Cannon IIRC). Maybe this was in some mission INI research topic but I'm not sure anymore. Is there any document that covers this?

 

(Sorry for straying off-topic a bit :))

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It's really easy to fix the decaying logic. If it's an issue in RA95 too I could add a fix for it.

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The civilian buildings (V01 to V37) in RA1 don't take damage if they have low or no power or didn't in stock RA1.

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Back on topic, I've noticed an interesting thing: while the actual demo missions are located inside DEMOL.MIX, the main data file, DEMO.MIX, contains what seems to be unaltered versions of SCG03EA, SCG05EA and SCG10EA from the full game. Apparently, these were at some point intended to be the demo missions instead of the final choice of edited scenarios.

 

The game seems to use some hardcoded override to read scenario files either from the directory or from DEMOL.MIX, so that the original version of SCG10EA from DEMO.MIX is not loaded. Otherwise the demo is quite capable of reading files inside SC######.MIX archives.

 

Anyway, I've made a little fix for the FTP demo that addresses the following issues:

  • truncated briefing text in missions 1 and 2 is now fully visible
  • the "Right away sir!" infantry response voice clip is now played in the game
  • Construction Yard shadow is restored
  • GDi no longer treat civilians as hostile in mission 2

cc_demo_fix.zip

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Do you have a public list of exclusive files you found in the demo so we can see if we still miss one?

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I didn't get that from the demo. The only reason that sound didn't work was that it was called TOSS internally, while the file was called TOSS1... or the other way around, not sure. If it indeed wasn't in C&C95 I probably got it from the DOS version. I usually use the assets from the Covert Ops CD anyway, which are the DOS ones. Which incidentally also include the "Enemy planes approaching" sound. I think you guys should just look into the DOS C&C assets.

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Not sure if I said that before (haven't checked in here for quite some time!) but to the best of my knowledge, the C&C demo does not have any exclusive files (except for the modified missions that is). Which shouldn't be surprising since the demo was released after the full game, not before. The CCFAQ bundled with the downloadable demo mentions the latest version of the full game being either v1.18 or v1.19, which I guess gives a rough idea of when the demo was released.

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Well, no exclusive files except the order info screen :P

Right. Although I think that maybe a version of that ordering screen might have crept into a release of Covert Ops. Not sure though.

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The https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/blob/bleed/mods/cnc/bits/demo.mix seems to be our reservoir of DOS assets we scavenge from time to time.

Yeah, you'd better simply use the DOS game for that, actually. The demo is quite lacking in assets.

Perhaps they don't want to upload the full version files, because the DOS version was never officially made freeware so it's still technically illegal to distribute (and maybe GitHub rules forbid this kind of uploads)?

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