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pichorra

C&C Storyline inspiration?

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I think its safe to say the link between RA and TD storylines involving Kane is... well.... weak and messy. Notice how he was completely ignored in RA2

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I think its safe to say the link between RA and TD storylines involving Kane is... well.... weak and messy. Notice how he was completely ignored in RA2

That's because he went underground until Tiberian Dawn.

 

If the Soviets win, Kane becomes the new leader and the Brotherhood of Nod comes to power. There's no Tiberian Dawn.

If the Allies win, Kane goes back underground and waits until Tiberian Dawn before coming back out.

 

So, if Allies win... Kanes goes underground. We won't see him again until Tiberian Dawn.

 

Red Alert 2 is based on the "Allies won!" scenario from Red Alert.

 

Red Alert 3 is based on the "Allies won again!" scenario from Red Alert 2.

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Oh yeah, I forgot about that :D.

I need to replay the single player missions once again I guess.

 

Any way, RA2 and 3 follow RA1. But according to the wiki, TD also follows RA1.

Thus RA2 and 3 are a different time line. And a cancelled game (another C&C3, while tiberian sun wasn't out yet?) would have told this story.

 

With the compilation pack from 2007, RA1 is not prior to TD, that is, according to EA games. But hey, the original designers where those of westwood. While EA games. well.... you know...

 

 

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Oh yeah, I forgot about that :D.

I need to replay the single player missions once again I guess.

 

Any way, RA2 and 3 follow RA1. But according to the wiki, TD also follows RA1.

Thus RA2 and 3 are a different time line. And a cancelled game (another C&C3, while tiberian sun wasn't out yet?) would have told this story.

 

With the compilation pack from 2007, RA1 is not prior to TD, that is, according to EA games. But hey, the original designers where those of westwood. While EA games. well.... you know...

When the Soviets decided to fight back in Red Alert 2, that's probably what changed history again.

 

Perhaps, Westwood intended to do something for Red Alert 3 that would include some hint of Kane... until EA took over and forgot about Kane in Red Alert.

 

This always happens in television and movies too. When they make sequels or spin-offs, they forget about the original intention... and sequels/spin-offs make no sense.

 

Hey, let's make Red Alert as a prequel to Tiberian Dawn! We'll include Kane and Nod!!!

 

*several years later*

 

*forgets about Kane in Red Alert*

 

Hey, let's make a sequel to Red Alert!!!

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I guess we can't use what EA touched in a way that it will look nice. In Tiberian Wars/Twillight, Kane's personality seems weird, most tech created in TS seems lost somehow and they were using things back from Tiberian Dawn...

 

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Returning to basic stuff with a lame excuse is what they did.

However, EA games wanted to make up for what they did with Tiberian Sun. So they put the most effort in C&C3. (Which lacked in Kane's wrath).

 

Micro balance, Macro balance, Realistic feel to units and structures.

Except.... the recon bike.

Even the veterancy is balanced.

 

Is the veterancy correct in the cnc wiki? For TS?

Because I am reading some ridiculous stuff there right now.

Recon bike gets the "stronger" missiles that the MRLS uses.

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The original got killed by the ION cannon?

In TS he returns.

Then you discover that was actually a clone, the real kane might be cabal? Makes this the first one still the original or a clone? Maybe cabal is also a clone.

There are no clones in TS. This is how the TS stuff worked:

  • Kane's undamaged face in the TS briefings was video manipulation on the real-time video stream, courtesy of CABAL. The real one is the one with the damaged face you see at the end. The GDI intro briefing actually hints at this; EVA notes that the video of Kane's return is genuine, but some signs of manipulation were detected.
  • McNeil stabs Kane in the gut with a piece of wreckage at the end of the GDI campaign. This is considered canon.
  • Without Kane's command, CABAL goes crazy, and the events in Firestorm start.
  • CABAL recovers Kane's body, and puts it in a tank to heal. The Kane in the tube you see in Firestorm is not a clone. The other people around him in the other tubes are not clones either. In fact in the video you see one of them is female. See, "CABAL" stands for "Computer Assisted Biologically Augmented Lifeform". Note the "Biologically Augmented" and "Lifeform" parts; it wasn't an actual "Artificial" Intelligence, but a bunch of human brains linked together to work as supercomputer.
  • At the end of Firestorm, CABAL links Kane into its brains matrix, which allows Kane to reassert control over it and abort CABAL's genocidal plans. This basically means that none of the player's actions had any effect on the real reason the war against CABAL ended :P

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That's a really silly ending, then :P But then, I always thought firestorm was really silly (so nothing new).

 

On the RA story line stuff...

RA1: "According to Adam Isgreen, a lead designer on many of Westwood’s Command & Conquer games, early drafts of Red Alert’s script featured a ‘duelling scientists’ sub-plot, the increasingly bizarre inventions of Albert Einstein and Nikola Tesla fuelling a technological arms race. Many elements of this idea are present in the finished game, including teleportation with Einstein’s Chronosphere, weaponised Tesla coils, and a defensive force field dubbed the ‘iron curtain’. Fascinatingly, this facet of the story was also intended to provide further connections to the original game - Tesla, who famously speculated about radio communication with extraterrestrials, would have successfully contacted an alien civilisation during the arms race, an event leading to the eventual seeding of Tiberium on Earth."

- http://bennet.org/blog/tiberian-origins/

 

RA2: "Command & Conquer 3: Tiberian Incursion (also known as Tiberian Twilight during development) was the working title for an iteration of Command & Conquer 3...

...GDI and Nod fought in Area 51. GDI was attempting to retrieve the remaining Screaming Eagle suit from the vaults. During the fighting GDI inadvertently activated technology from Command & Conquer: Red Alert in one of the vaults, including a Chronosphere. A chrono vortex threw Yuri back in time. Yuri was the result of Nod's psychic experimentations and an acolyte of Kane. This would make Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2 another branch of the timeline."

- http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Tiberian_Incursion

 

So, there was meant to be MASSIVE ties between the Tib and RA universes, but yeah, EA didn't care, or didn't know, or forgot of some shit. Which is a pity, because it would be nice for the whole thing to fit together. In fact, it's a pity WW didn't make RA1 more about Einstein vs Tesla.

 

  -Liam

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That's a really silly ending, then :P But then, I always thought firestorm was really silly (so nothing new).

 

On the RA story line stuff...

RA1: "According to Adam Isgreen, a lead designer on many of Westwood’s Command & Conquer games, early drafts of Red Alert’s script featured a ‘duelling scientists’ sub-plot, the increasingly bizarre inventions of Albert Einstein and Nikola Tesla fuelling a technological arms race. Many elements of this idea are present in the finished game, including teleportation with Einstein’s Chronosphere, weaponised Tesla coils, and a defensive force field dubbed the ‘iron curtain’. Fascinatingly, this facet of the story was also intended to provide further connections to the original game - Tesla, who famously speculated about radio communication with extraterrestrials, would have successfully contacted an alien civilisation during the arms race, an event leading to the eventual seeding of Tiberium on Earth."

- http://bennet.org/blog/tiberian-origins/

 

RA2: "Command & Conquer 3: Tiberian Incursion (also known as Tiberian Twilight during development) was the working title for an iteration of Command & Conquer 3...

...GDI and Nod fought in Area 51. GDI was attempting to retrieve the remaining Screaming Eagle suit from the vaults. During the fighting GDI inadvertently activated technology from Command & Conquer: Red Alert in one of the vaults, including a Chronosphere. A chrono vortex threw Yuri back in time. Yuri was the result of Nod's psychic experimentations and an acolyte of Kane. This would make Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2 another branch of the timeline."

- http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Tiberian_Incursion

 

So, there was meant to be MASSIVE ties between the Tib and RA universes, but yeah, EA didn't care, or didn't know, or forgot of some shit. Which is a pity, because it would be nice for the whole thing to fit together. In fact, it's a pity WW didn't make RA1 more about Einstein vs Tesla.

 

  -Liam

Wow, this sounds really good! If only we could have seen that done in the actual game! :(

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It is kind of the quality that Blizzard puts in its games.

 

EA is all about, money, money money.

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It is kind of the quality that Blizzard puts in its games.

 

EA is all about, money, money money.

"And Yuri appeared. He said,"

 

(Want to know what Yuri said? Please check our "Yuri's Story" DLC for $5.)

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"And Yuri appeared. He said,"

 

(Want to know what Yuri said? Please check our "Yuri's Story" DLC for $5.)

Well, they did that for Yuriko's story  :laugh:

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Nice Topic. I realized as I got older there was some ties with the early C&C games, modern day "Orwellian" views , and even some esoteric stuff. Like the pyramids in TS and the Scrin later. And Kane was involved with media manipulation in TD. I'd probably have to go through the games again, I know there is more.

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And Kane was involved with media manipulation in TD.

 

Nod used the media so much in Tiberian Dawn to sway people and heap pressure on GDI, of course leading to GDI funding cuts and a huge increase in Nod support.

The Quote being "The media tell the people what to believe and we tell the media what to believe".

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GDI responded with that the funding cut was a tactic to get exponentially more funding. Thus they also could fund the ORCA (and Mammoth).

"This is all, what it is about".

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Tiberian Dawn has a much more superior plot and depth than Red Alert.

 

C&C has this 90's geopolitical, industrial, economic and media warfare going on.

It has a Gulf/Vietnam war mood to it. The conflicts are low in intensity and spread out.

The emphasis is put more on task forces, covert operations and propaganda.

 

GDI and Nod are interesting factions. This isn't a generic conventional war between 2 states or nations,

it's a global war between 2 clashing ideologies. It's also interesting how there is no clear 'good guy' and 'bad guy' in this war.

GDI can be seen as angels, peacekeepers of the world while Nod are fanatical terrorists. Or..

Nod can be seen as freedom fighters, liberators while GDI only serves as pawns for the corporate elite to keep the status quo.

 

There are many ways to view this war. There is the political aspect, ideological aspect, the religious aspect and the spiritual aspect.

GDI views Tiberium as a scientific anomaly, a danger to mankind. Nod sees potential in Tiberium, a bright future.

Kane is a very mysterious and charismatic man who's true motives are (still) unknown.

 

Red Alert is very simplistic and bland. It's a World War where both sides throw soldiers and tanks at eachother in a battle of attrition.

It's a very bloody and costly war that leaves the European continent ravaged. There's not much politics or media involved,

it's just a basic (and brutal) war. What is most interesting is Kane's involvement in the Soviet Union. He acts as Stalin's personal advisor,

and it makes one wonder if Kane was the one pulling the strings all along..

 

The intro and music in Tiberian Dawn reflects on that 90's political and mysterious setting.

What is truth, what are lies? "Act on Instinct" is a wonderful piece, and "March to Doom" reminds us that war is terrible.

 

The music in Red Alert is funky, groove and hip. It's a glorification of war.

Hell, in the first Soviet mission you gas a town of civilians.

"Hell March" is arguably the most popular C&C track, although I believe it's a bit overrated.

There are alot more great tracks, such as "Vector", "Big Foot" and "Trenches".

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Tiberian Dawn has a much more superior plot and depth than Red Alert.

Yea I agree, although I think the acting was much better in the RA1 cut-scenes. RA1 was literally WWII without Hitler's aggression, so I guess they couldn't go too crazy with the plot. With the exception of, you know, the tesla weaponry, time shifting, vortexes, invulnerability, cyborgs and double barrelled tanks...

 

The music in Red Alert is funky, groove and hip.

RA1 has the best soundtrack of all the CnCs imho, possibly of all the games I've ever played. Only videogame music I will listen to doing other stuff. That and the wipeout series. RA1 expansion remixes are top notch too.

 

 

Also I laughed at your user name.  :laugh:

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Well, yeah, I really would have liked to have seen more connections between the Tiberian and RA universes. Twisting them while not making them all in the same world, would be cool. And at least then it'd make sense, rather than just being something that you have to, more or less, invent in your own head.

  -Liam

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Also I laughed at your user name.  :laugh:

Glad you caught the joke. :P

 

Well, yeah, I really would have liked to have seen more connections between the Tiberian and RA universes. Twisting them while not making them all in the same world, would be cool. And at least then it'd make sense, rather than just being something that you have to, more or less, invent in your own head.

  -Liam

There are alot of connections actually (besides the obvious Kane appearances and Soviet ending).

GDI's Mammoth Tank could of been inspired from the Soviet Heavy Tank.

Likewise, the Nod Obelisk could of been drawn from the Tesla Coil.

Both Nod and Allies use turrets. The Longbow also resembles the Nod Apache.

 

There are many more similarities like this.  It could've been coincidence, accidental, or intended.

Many of the icons still remain the same, so it could of been due to technical limitations, who knows.

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so GDI's mammoth tank would have nothing to do with the Soviet Mammoth tank? no?

the similarities im pretty sure exist because they were too lazy to draw new .shp files (things like artillery, turrets and a few other things)

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Yeah, to me, the similarities are more laziness. Even the connections between ob and tesla, etc, seem to just be that they couldn't think of a new thing to give them. It doesn't even make that much sense (in the way it works) to be on the soviet side. It only makes sense, as it's Tesla's weapon.

  -Liam

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It being 'Tesla's weapon' is not reason enough to put the tech on the Svoiet side. Tesla did most of his work before the USSR even existed, and in the USA at that. Also, tesla coil-to-obelisk evolution is nonsense, the principles of a tesla coil (wireless transfer of electricity) and a laser (augmented and focused light) are fundamentally different. The reality is that yes, indeed, WW were lazy and they focused on bigger maps and AI and not 'real' storyline connections.

 

Work on TD started basically as soon as Dune II was out. They had like 4 years to think through the entire game and solidify all its concepts. RA development on the other hand took only about a year. Look at how advanced C&C is compared to Dune, and then how advanced RA is compared to C&C and do the math. It turns out quite right.

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