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jeffbeck

Is the CNCnet sever cheat free?

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Unfortunately, the XWIS 'you owned me cos you cheat' numpty brigade have brought their shitpot paranoia to the server. I've been banned from every mod game because I apparently 'cheat'. They don't seem to believe this is a cheat free server because ' it's what they want you to believe'. So, do cheats work on this server?

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Guest Mechacaseal

Besides mod maps I haven't seen any cheating going on. The old cheats have been blocked from working but that doesnt mean the cheats can't find a way back into the game. I haven't bothered trying to figure out how cncnet modified the games to prevent cheating too lazy and old to care lol. ignore them. when the ladder comes there will be actual "cheating" but right now i dont think anyone is social degenerate enough to bother with cheats.

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its just the easiest way to feel good about yourself, if the other guy is cheating.

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Yeah other than modding the map files themselves its really hard to do.

in RA1 in fact they have a thing pop up if the map has unusual modifications (actually reading them can give you a huge advantage :P )

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Besides mod maps I haven't seen any cheating going on.

 

now I understand, the map cheated me

 

I haven't seen any cheating going on either...

 

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I haven't bothered trying to figure out how cncnet modified the games to prevent cheating

Basically, the way the developers would; by actually patching the game. Just, without source code it's all disassembling and byte patching. (amg h4x)

 

The fact the cncnet client downloads and executes these patched exes instead of the game's own exes when actually starting a game makes sure people are forced to use these patched exes, making it hard to weasel in stuff of their own to still get around it.

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An above average player usually scans around the map to see what their allies & enemies are doing in order to adapt their strategy so they would most likely have an idea of everything/most things going on, my point here - mainly where units have travelled and scouted.

 

Scouting is the #1 rule without question, which is also a cause of alot of arguments on this game where a certain player has not done their part in scouting their opponent!!

 

Now in my experience, some players dont notice when they have been scouted and accuse people instantly of 'mapping' (using 3rd party programs/tools to reveal all shroud on the map) when they are attacked so either they ask other players in the game if they recall anyone scouting them or request the attacker to screenshot their base showing shroud for proof.

 

Players that understand the mechanics of the game and the tricks to playing usually dont ask because they know how they got scouted and/or attacked but some people dont use their brains to figure this out and realise this and are certain that the player is 'cheating' until proven innocent or not guilty.

 

Then their are players that either just dont understand the basics  or they just dont want to hear that they are wrongly accusing players of cheating because they cant accept that a certain player might just be better because they understand how the game works and have a good strategy.

 

I noticed how Red Alert 1 has the no cheat thing and was thinking that TS also needs a mod map checker implemented into the client so players that dont understand that mod map files can also be edited to change buildings & unit properties (cost, strength, speed etc) are able to see if the mod map has had any changes made before playing.

This would be helpful in the case of playing a ladder match so the host wouldnt have an unfair advantage over the other player.

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Sky you know how to make maps, ye? And how to add triggers that wudn''t normally be known to other users like 'sell silo and get 50k credits'?

Because Funky was looking for someone to help him out with this stuff as he was/is working on 'mod map checker' etc

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Problem is that even things like train scripts would already show up on such a checker... scripting and customized civilian stuff seems pretty common in TS maps

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Sky you know how to make maps, ye? And how to add triggers that wudn''t normally be known to other users like 'sell silo and get 50k credits'?

Because Funky was looking for someone to help him out with this stuff as he was/is working on 'mod map checker' etc

 

yes i could help with what i know as far as editing/modding goes...

 

Problem is that even things like train scripts would already show up on such a checker... scripting and customized civilian stuff seems pretty common in TS maps

 

are you referring to westwood maps or mod maps or both?

 

Mainly the editing of costs & other properties of units or user created 'trainable & buildable' units & buildings would be good to identify in such a checker.

 

In the case of a westwood map that has a script for a moving train such as Tunnel Training or Casey's Canyon, regular players would know this and accept that the 'checker' would just be pointing out that the map contains a script to run the 'locomotive'.

 

You would really just want to be able to identify if the original script was modified in some way compared to the original version of the map... if you catch my drift?

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I also forgot to mention, a big advantage with the cncnet client is being able to install the add on that allows you to double click the map preview so you can view a larger, more detailed version as an image providing the map actually has one in the case of a user created map because back on original WOL, most user created maps would require you to save the map with no preview and other things such as compressing and removing stuff from the map file in order for it to be small enough to transfer to other players within the limited time frame. This is also another advantage being able to send larger map files on cncnet to other players without having to do all this stuff in order just to play users created maps. It also allows for more feature rich maps and possibilty to have better versions of westwood maps with previews and being able to view a much more detailed version  :)

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You can right click a map preview to view the content and check for mods/cheats. Thats how it was in red alert 1 too until i added the automatic mod/cheat check. I want to add that to TS too, but I never made a TS map so i don't know what possible mods a TS map can contain. I will make a test version today so you guys can try it out

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Guest Mechacaseal

You can right click a map preview to view the content and check for mods/cheats. Thats how it was in red alert 1 too until i added the automatic mod/cheat check. I want to add that to TS too, but I never made a TS map so i don't know what possible mods a TS map can contain. I will make a test version today so you guys can try it out

 

People who make cheat maps usually use sunedit2k. typical cheats are changing what is needed to be built in order to build a unit like building both gates a and b to build a secret 1 dollar cyborg commando. or changing house settings for a specific faction so everything is slightly stronger and builds faster and does more damage than it should. looks very similar to these stats. seems like some official maps like tunnel training modify the rules too with these.

5fobpFh.jpg

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Yes, I will flag every modified unit stat as a possible cheat like in red alert. But there are other sections in the rules.ini where I need help from you guys like the [General] section in rules.ini

 

There are keys like this:

BuildSpeed=.8          ; general build speed [time (in minutes) to produce a 1000 credit cost item]

 

This is not a cheat if it was modified since it applies for all players/factions

I need a list with all keys that could give a single player/faction an advantage

 

From a quick look through the [General] section I already found this:

; hover vehicle characteristics

HoverAcceleration=.02  ; time to accelerate to full speed

 

This could be used to cheat since I don't know if both sides have hover units or only one side got them

 

rules.ini: http://funkyfr3sh.cncnet.org/files/ts/rules.ini

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Do those even work? And what are the default values so i can check if it was changed ?

 

[specialFlags]

TiberiumGrows=yes

TiberiumSpreads=yes

TiberiumExplosive=yes

DestroyableBridges=yes

MCVDeploy=no

InitialVeteran=no

FixedAlliance=no

HarvesterImmune=no

FogOfWar=no

Inert=no

IonStorms=no

Meteorites=no

Visceroids=no

 

[basic]

IgnoreGlobalAITriggers=no

TruckCrate=no

TrainCrate=no

Percent=91

TiberiumGrowthEnabled=yes

VeinGrowthEnabled=no

IceGrowthEnabled=yes

TiberiumDeathToVisceroid=yes

FreeRadar=no

InitTime=10000

 

[Lighting]

Ambient=0.800000

Red=1.000000

Green=1.000000

Blue=1.000000

Ground=0.000000

Level=0.000000

IonAmbient=0.790000

IonRed=1.250000

IonGreen=1.250000

IonBlue=1.000000

IonGround=0.000000

IonLevel=0.000000

 

I think its gonna be tough, there are too much unknown things and it might be impossible for me to make a proper cheat check since I don't know anything about TS maps

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Guest Mechacaseal

Do those even work? And what are the default values so i can check if it was changed ?

 

[specialFlags]

TiberiumGrows=yes

TiberiumSpreads=yes

TiberiumExplosive=yes

DestroyableBridges=yes

MCVDeploy=no

InitialVeteran=no

FixedAlliance=no

HarvesterImmune=no

FogOfWar=no

Inert=no

IonStorms=no

Meteorites=no

Visceroids=no

 

[basic]

IgnoreGlobalAITriggers=no

TruckCrate=no

TrainCrate=no

Percent=91

TiberiumGrowthEnabled=yes

VeinGrowthEnabled=no

IceGrowthEnabled=yes

TiberiumDeathToVisceroid=yes

FreeRadar=no

InitTime=10000

 

[Lighting]

Ambient=0.800000

Red=1.000000

Green=1.000000

Blue=1.000000

Ground=0.000000

Level=0.000000

IonAmbient=0.790000

IonRed=1.250000

IonGreen=1.250000

IonBlue=1.000000

IonGround=0.000000

IonLevel=0.000000

I think its gonna be tough, there are too much unknown things and it might be impossible for me to make a proper cheat check since I don't know anything about TS maps

I know the stuff in yellow works if you change it. I also know in a lot of maps I used to make I'd stop Tiberium from spreading so it wouldn't  go outside boundaries ie go on the other side of train tracks etc. im pretty sure some of that stuff doesnt work especially the stuff like fog of war that you set before the match.

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Alright, I guess the Lighting stuff is safe and cannot be used to give one player an advantage?

 

Here are the results of my first test run on the tunnel train-ing map: (All the unknown stuff needs to be fixed, i don't have the default values)

The Strength value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 6000 to 600

The Sight value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 0 to 4

The Power value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 0 to -40

The Crewed value of INGRNLMP has been changed from no to yes

The LightVisibility value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 4000 to 1500

The LightGreenTint value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 1.5 to 0.7

The Strength value of LOCOMOTIVE has been changed from 100 to 1000

The Speed value of LOCOMOTIVE has been changed from 8 to 11

The Armor value of LOCOMOTIVE has been changed from light to concrete

The Strength value of TRAINCAR has been changed from 100 to 900

The Armor value of TRAINCAR has been changed from light to concrete

The Speed value of TRAINCAR has been changed from 8 to 11

The Strength value of CARGOCAR has been changed from 100 to 900

The Armor value of CARGOCAR has been changed from light to concrete

The Speed value of CARGOCAR has been changed from 8 to 11

The TiberiumGrows value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes

The TiberiumSpreads value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes

The TiberiumExplosive value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes

The DestroyableBridges value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes

The MCVDeploy value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The InitialVeteran value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The FixedAlliance value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The HarvesterImmune value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The FogOfWar value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The Inert value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The IonStorms value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The Meteorites value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The Visceroids value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

The NextScenario value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to GDI

The AltNextScenario value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to GDI9C.MAP

The Name value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to Tunnel

The NewINIFormat value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 4

The CarryOverCap value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 0

The EndOfGame value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The SkipScore value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The OneTimeOnly value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The SkipMapSelect value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The Official value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes

The IgnoreGlobalAITriggers value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The TruckCrate value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The TrainCrate value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The Percent value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 91

The MultiplayerOnly value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 1

The TiberiumGrowthEnabled value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes

The VeinGrowthEnabled value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The IceGrowthEnabled value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes

The TiberiumDeathToVisceroid value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes

The FreeRadar value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no

The InitTime value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 10000

The map contains 10 Units

The map contains 10 Infantry

The map contains 32 Structures

The map contains 24 Tubes

The map contains 2 ScriptTypes

The Name value of ????????????????1 has been changed from Unknown to ????????????????1

The Name value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to Move

The 0 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,31

The 1 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15

The 2 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,32

The 3 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15

The 4 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,33

The 5 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15

The 6 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,30

The 7 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15

The 8 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 6,1

The map contains 1 TaskForces

The Name value of 0A5A09B0 has been changed from Unknown to Train

The 0 value of 0A5A09B0 has been changed from Unknown to 1,LOCOMOTIVE

The Group value of 0A5A09B0 has been changed from Unknown to -1

The map contains 1 TeamTypes

The Name value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to Train

The VeteranLevel value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 1

The Loadable value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Full value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Annoyance value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The GuardSlower value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The House value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to Neutral

The Recruiter value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Autocreate value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Prebuild value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Reinforce value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Droppod value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Whiner value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The LooseRecruit value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Aggressive value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Suicide value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to yes

The Priority value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 50

The Max value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0

The TechLevel value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0

The Group value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to -1

The OnTransOnly value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The AvoidThreats value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The IonImmune value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The TransportsReturnOnUnload value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The AreTeamMembersRecruitable value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The IsBaseDefense value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The OnlyTargetHouseEnemy value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no

The Waypoint value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to AE

The Script value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0A3E6DF0

The TaskForce value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0A5A09B0

The map contains 1 Triggers

The map contains 1 Events

The map contains 1 Actions

The map contains 1 Tags

The map contains 432 AITriggerTypesEnable

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Guest Mechacaseal

I'm slightly confused about how all this works on your end but would it be easier to remove those rules from the map and just make them default rules in the main rules.ini i dont need why the train cars would only have 100 strength etc.

 

The Visceroids value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no

 

Stuff like this varies by map tho so no default answer.

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Removing stuff is not good, but I added all Standard/Firestorm maps to the trusted list so these changes to the train cars will never trigger an anti cheat message

 

Here is what I have now:

 

All changes to these sections will never trigger the cheat warning since it looks like those cannot be used to give one player/faction an advantage

"lighting", "specialflags", "basic"

 

These sections will be completly ignored and changes to them are not listed at all since all of them are just related to terrain and other normal stuff that every map got:

"overlaydatapack", "overlaypack", "terrain",  "isomappack5", "waypoints", "map", "previewpack", "preview", "digest", "tubes", "smudge", "aitriggertypesenable"

 

 

I don't know if these sections can be abused and what they are doing at all:

"taskforces", "actions", "tags", "events", "scripttypes"

 

All other sections/keys not listed in here are flagged as possible cheat if modified

 

I created a new map with FS and my map was not flagged, so I guess i can push the update now and later we can tweak it if needed

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I think its gonna be tough, there are too much unknown things and it might be impossible for me to make a proper cheat check since I don't know anything about TS maps

 

instead of checking each map, each time

 

could a map be vetted publicly and added to and served out to the client from the server?

or built into the client in a safe way? checked by a hash or some other check?

being inspected by the entire community then added might be more reliable

 

we would have a 'standard version' of each map to compete on

 

the noted differences could be listed by right clicking like you have the map.ini popup

a less technical summary might be adequate and easier for those not familiar with what each entry is for

and wouldn't have to be generated on the fly.

 

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There will be a list of verified maps, we will need someone to check the maps manually on request and afterwards we add them to the list.

 

The update is online already, you can check the differences by clicking the cheats button in the game room. I tried to make it good readable so it can be understood by non experts too

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I think I understand now

well done!

 

I never kept track of the differences now they are listed  excellent

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I guess most of the mod maps are flagged as a possible cheat map atm, at least all that modify stats of units and have triggers

Still need to tweak some things, there are might be some things you can mod without giving one player an advantage

 

Once everything is working properly we will just start adding the fair and balanced mod maps to the trusted list

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people are freaking out thinking all the maps are loaded with cheats now  :O

 

please no more last dialog box

'are you sure you want to play this map?  :(

 

map contains modifications

people react to cheat

 

 

cheat_warning.JPG.226dd4d659c8c7f63cdf20b9e5598014.JPG

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Yea, you guys need to click the cheats button and post the results in here so we can figure out what mods are ok and fix it up. Some maps need to be added manually to the list of verified maps anyways, it cannot work fully automatically

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