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MattAttack

C&C 95/Tiberian Dawn Mission scripting tutorials

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Yeah I guess I didn't mention that in the tutorials because I hate when I see that stuff... In fact, I guess I missed a great opportunity to say how I equate it to sacrilege ;)  Once in a while I'll play some of the huge collection and as soon as I see a Chinook/apc unload 5 tanks and 20 infantry I abort mission and move on to the next one....  (everytime I see a Nod mammoth tank, too)

 

I'm just the same.

The worst missions are when you're either faction and you start with 30 mammoths, 30 SSMs, a bunch of obelisks and AGTs and.... visceroids.

Or thats what you're fighting against.

Like really?

 

Wheres the fun in that?

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Fully agreed. Levels are like that are just pure nonsense. Although I can imagine a mission in GDI grabbing a Nod stealth tank and you have to get across some trouble with the stnk to complete the mission. Anyway, missions with lots of odd units are just as bad as those rubbish infinite ore rectangular horrors in RA1 multi.

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those rubbish infinite ore rectangular horrors in RA1 multi.

 

Don't even get me started on those.

Also minus points to any nubbins RA single-player mapmaker that thinks setting AI IQ to 5 will sort your auto-production for you. (don't do this. ever.)

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Fully agreed. Levels are like that are just pure nonsense. Although I can imagine a mission in GDI grabbing a Nod stealth tank and you have to get across some trouble with the stnk to complete the mission.

 

If it's explained in some sort of mission context, I'd have less of a problem with it... "We (Nod) have stolen 20 mammoth tanks and can mind-control visceroids, now destroy everything!"  But unfortunately it never is!

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Finally done with video 7.  Discussing my favorite trigger, "built it."  Also part 1 of trying to explain the U1#.  In this vid, it covers U1 of 20+ not getting distracted when you attack civilians and how you can recruit units from existing teams depending on their relative u1#s.  I know, sounds exciting!  :yo:

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The thing with the priorities for recruiting teams is a very cool discovery, Matt, but I still can't fathom why it'd always want pull members of an active team when it has fresh recruits available. Maybe it needs to be tested with different kinds of units in the teams, f.ex. an E3:2,E1:3 team with 7 and an E3:1,E1:2 with 20. Would that second team strip the first one of 3 men? If so, would that lower-priority team recruit replacements? Etc. As usual, this raises more questions than it answers. Still, it makes some of my mission ideas quite achievable. Long ago I'd started on a map where, in addition to your main objective, you were constantly stalked by a commando sniping your men from vantage points and moving about. It worked fine for the first few actions I planned for him to take, but then he seemed to revert to guard on one of the waypoints... Maybe it was just wrong numbers, but I can't seem to find the map.

 

Also, have you tried testing this in conjunction with some of the other numbers in that first string? Like the one that sets the number of teams that act together, etc?

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but I still can't fathom why it'd always want pull members of an active team when it has fresh recruits available. Maybe it needs to be tested with different kinds of units in the teams, f.ex. an E3:2,E1:3 team with 7 and an E3:1,E1:2 with 20. Would that second team strip the first one of 3 men? If so, would that lower-priority team recruit replacements? Etc. As usual, this raises more questions than it answers.

Who knows what reasoning WW had behind this logic.  It's like reverse engineering and trying to understand their mindset.  As far as your questions, iirc if the teams are comprised of mixed units, they usually will strip them from another team with a lesser U1#.  I don't think the second team would replace the units unless they were set to "replace" maybe, or if the team was created anew.

Also, have you tried testing this in conjunction with some of the other numbers in that first string? Like the one that sets the number of teams that act together, etc?

I know, so many questions.  I just tested the mission with link logic, force move, # of teams and even replace.  None of them really affect the whole recruiting logic.  The only real funny side effect was replace.  All teams were set to replace and if you killed a guy from the 15 team, a minigunner would replace him from the 7 team, and one from the 0 team would replace him.  Then a guy would get drafted from the unassigned units to join the 0 team.  Kill 1 guy, and it's like a domino effect.  If that makes sense......

 

Now, the next video (hopefully) will deal more with how U1 affects combat behavior which I [glow=green,2,300]DO[/glow] believe interacts with these numbers a little more.

Still, it makes some of my mission ideas quite achievable.

BTW if you have any crazy ideas for missions, throw them my way.  I could use some ideas for my campaign... :) 

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Ohhhkay. That was some freaking deep stuff.

 

So that U1 number is, at least partly, a "recruitability" rating? O_o

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So that U1 number is, at least partly, a "recruitability" rating? O_o

I'm starting to think it's the main function.  Until I started making low-tech missions and noticed this trait, I always assumed the higher the U1, the less they'll stray from their orders to retaliate.  But, while making this video, I could not get the teams to reliably repeat behavior related stuff in regards to the U1.  I was certain the team with U1 of 20 wouldn't stray from their waypoints when I attacked them.  I was wrong.  Now I've been testing it with different types of units and it seems every time I get a different result.  I just changed the 5 men to 2 buggies, and the buggies ALL stayed on their waypaths.  O_o

I partially still believe higher U1's get less distracted (especially Chinooks) but it seems to depend on a lot of other stuff that's still a mystery. More to come when I get some more time!!

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well, I already have a "commando stalking you" mission, so "KEEP EM COMING!" ha ha  :yo:

 

Bad choice of words. Not stalking. I meant ambushing. Sniping 1-2 of your men from a cliff or from across a river and then moving away to the next ambush spot, where you'll meet him again to get another couple of men sniped...

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hmmmm interesting.... I'm trying to picture it in my head.  Maybe a Nod mission and you control some civi units as well to be your cannon fodder so your more useful stuff (flamers & bazookas) don't get sniped.  Call it "Operation Human Shield" heh heh...  Heck, if you have time to draw up a map I'll give it a go!!

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I seem to have lost the map I did make for that, or it's on some old busted HDD, so no luck there.

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I like it how you sound even higher than I am while I watch these. I actually set youtube to 1.25 or 1.5 speed, but cool vids.

 

And nice tricks with those numbers again. I've always had a thought about 'prepping' some teams in a similar manner but I never did it quite right. I think WW mapmakers also tried it in either that one dreaded 'recapture the stealth tech' mission or in one of the covert ops ones. I remember seeing official triggers of GDI getting reinforced with APCs + engi without unloading, and then another trigger that recruits the same APC + engi team to attack base.

 

EDIT:

http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/mappics/campaign-nod/maps/scb11eb.ini

Mission I'm talking about. I don't remember if it worked right though. Maybe I just always pick the other variant, no APCs there. Note the pretty low '2' value for the reinforced team and that the autocreated attack team only recruits the APC.

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I like it how you sound even higher than I am while I watch these. I actually set youtube to 1.25 or 1.5 speed, but cool vids.

heh heh I don't know what you're talking about  8)  Still, I had a moment of free time and went for it, quality be damned! I was gonna do a voice-over but time ran out!

I think WW mapmakers also tried it in either that one dreaded 'recapture the stealth tech' mission or in one of the covert ops ones. I remember seeing official triggers of GDI getting reinforced with APCs + engi without unloading, and then another trigger that recruits the same APC + engi team to attack base.

EDIT:

http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/mappics/campaign-nod/maps/scb11eb.ini

Mission I'm talking about. I don't remember if it worked right though. Maybe I just always pick the other variant, no APCs there. Note the pretty low '2' value for the reinforced team and that the autocreated attack team only recruits the APC.

Yeah, I think I remember seeing that in the .ini.  Hmmm... that warrants a test!  It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't work, though; I'm really shocked at the amount of stuff in the originals that doesn't work properly.  Is it surprising I have those mission pages bookmarked? lol.

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well, just tested it.  If you do it just like in the example, the apc comes into the map and stops, then is recruited into the next team.  However it unloads he grenadiers and takes off to "attack base" and the grenadiers just sit there, which is understandable since they aren't even in the 2nd team.  The crazy thing, though is that when you add them to the second team, it doesn't get recruited whatsoever.  It's like the AI was looking for infantry to recruit off of the map, not in the apc. As I thought it didn't work but as per usual it doesn't work in exciting, unexpected ways :)

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Now that you say this, I have hazy memories of testing it too, with similar results. I assume it would still work if it unloads close enough to the intended target/s, at least with armed units, engis might just sit around. A cool workaround would be to have a second team of grenadiers or whatever's in the APC be recruited after it unloads. But that seems too hard to do, although I think there are a couple of ways about it.

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How to stack tiles & hex edit:

http://youtu.be/hU1cj4R9XzQ

For a moment I thought that with "tile stacking" you'd mean "adding new cells into a tileset file". That kinda requires hex editing for putting those on the actual map, so it'd fit the theme of the video, but it's a really advanced technique that goes more towards modding  O_o

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Speaking of hex editing-- I was messing around and seeing if there was a tile that was buildable and passable, yet was a barrier to tiberium growth and realized I'd never seen tiberium growing over a bridge.  Voila!  pavement made from the road on the bridge.  I'm gonna experiment and see if anything cool comes of this  O_o

 

8MICdGT.png

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I don't think that's any special terrain type, though. Maybe it just has trouble growing diagonally. I'd rather go for beach type for stuff like that.

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after 20 minutes on highest game speed.  I placed no tiberium on the map.

wpIddCz.png

Although, XCC considers it water-- if that means anything....

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XCC has its terrain types all messed up. Water is impassable to ground units.

 

That's an interesting find, though. According to the internal data, that's just "water" and "clear" on the bridges... so I assume the game has some more exceptions that are applied to it.

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