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Vulkov

Destroy Battle Fortress + Guardian GIs?

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9 minutes ago, FlyingMustache said:

Everyone here is referring to PvP experience. Your advice isn't very good in a PvP scenario. 

I used to play 3 Brutal Soviets with Iron Curtains back then, but I feel incompetent now. 

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13 minutes ago, laserbeak said:

I used to play 3 Brutal Soviets with Iron Curtains back then, but I feel incompetent now. 

Most people posting in this thread have played 7 brutals with iron curtains and nukes till they got bored and then they played humans with iron curtains...
Open CnCNet > click ranked match > log in > search for match > feel the enlightenment envelope you.

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15 minutes ago, laserbeak said:

I used to play 3 Brutal Soviets with Iron Curtains back then, but I feel incompetent now. 

 

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24 minutes ago, laserbeak said:

I used to play 3 Brutal Soviets with Iron Curtains back then, but I feel incompetent now. 

Ooof. You'll find that PvP is totally different. You have to forget what you think you know, and relearn from current PvP meta.

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You should learn to govern your emotions. Also, this was in Random map, not puny City maps, I never played any official maps back then. I honed my skills well, then tragedy struck & I was out-of-touch for a brief period (things will never be the same again.) I was mainly testing different unit combos' at the time —losing some big LAN matches piqued my interest & made me up my game.

36 minutes ago, Omituinen said:

 

 

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what the fuck ? Where did I ask for your origin story?

Unfortunately you are just wrong about everything you said when it comes to actual player vs player games. I personally have no interest what works against AI, because you can abuse so many things that normally wouldnt work. 

Doesn't really make any difference if you can accept being wrong or not :D

Edited by Omituinen
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In my opinion the problem with bf's is a way different for Soviet players than in some theoretical situations. The bf's are mostly in a group of mirage and griz tanks. The biggest problem is that bfs are a hardcounter against desolators and therefore they take out one of the most powerful units against sovs in map control and other situations.

I mean, if you are in a situation with sovs agains allied that you a confronted with a army of grizs and mirages and bfs u did something wrong in the early-mid game (to less pressure). But if you are insuch a situation i would try to use the speed of rhino tanks do split the bfs out of the army and also try to hit and run or to bring desolators in a good position away from the bfs (depends on map). But its very hard against a allied in the late game.


If you have SW ON, the situation is a little bit better for sovs in the late game and a little bit different as with no SWs.
But ask marko for the best tips, he is a beast in all situations. But i guess also for a advanced sov player it is hard against allied in the late game without SWs. I guess you made a early mistake in the game to end in such a situation. :)

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At least with soviet players, its not what units you should make (obviously you should make rhinos), but how you control your units (rhinos)

Many not so experienced players can make loads of rhinos, but have no idea how use them.
A decent battle fortress user knows how to run away behind other units or base defenses when hes chased by rhinos.

So obviously you shouldn't just go chase a battle fortress with rhinos in those situations. If you don't have an iron curtain. you  need to overwhelm allied players army if you want to kill it, you need to be absolutely sure you will overrun him if you want to attack the army. so just keep making tanks, and overwhelm allied when you know you can. 

 

And why would you want to attack the opponents army anyways? It's RTS. Economy means everything. Attack his economy, not his army. 

Edited by Omituinen
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12 minutes ago, Omituinen said:

And why would you want to attack the opponents army anyways? It's RTS. Economy means everything. Attack his economy, not his army. 

 

Yeah, thats the goal of the game. To get an advantage against your opponent. But i guess if you face a player with nearly equal skill, its not so easy to rape his economy, because he will react on that and defend it or somethin.g

At the end, mistakes and/or better moves of one player leads to a winner. As you said, its basically RTS. But sometimes the key is to bring your tanks in a better situation as your opponent tanks. - But i guess this is far beyond that what the topic starter want to learn. I mean, it needs a little bit of experience to face bfs in a group of tanks (especially to use desolators in a other way than in ra2). If you go no brain all-in you will lose immediatly your tanks vs a allied army.

 

In the end a RTS game is like a other sports: training. :)

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You should have no problem beating a BF with tanks if it's alone. Remember to just keep telling your tanks to be on the move constantly. A BF fully loaded with G. GIs is expensive. If they are using it alongside other units like mirage tanks, it should cost them a lot of money, so you should be having a lot of money too to spend on tanks.

The best course of action is to hit their economy so they can't just build that BF. If it is 1v1, take advantage of rhino tanks early in the game. If you let the allies build without interference, they will be powerful later in the game. If it's team alliance and long game, the enemy may build BFs, since you can't hit all of your opponents, unless you have competent allies. If your allies fail to stop his closest opponent's battle fortresses, this is more of a teammate issue. Usually team games are long games, so you should be able to get that Iron Curtain. If SW is off, then pray your ally destroys those BF for you. Like people say: when the going gets tough, ask someone else to do it for you.

Also, this lasserbeak guy needs a real match with someone before giving the wrong advice.

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15 hours ago, reflexion said:

 

Yeah, thats the goal of the game. To get an advantage against your opponent. But i guess if you face a player with nearly equal skill, its not so easy to rape his economy, because he will react on that and defend it or somethin.g

At the end, mistakes and/or better moves of one player leads to a winner. As you said, its basically RTS. But sometimes the key is to bring your tanks in a better situation as your opponent tanks. - But i guess this is far beyond that what the topic starter want to learn. I mean, it needs a little bit of experience to face bfs in a group of tanks (especially to use desolators in a other way than in ra2). If you go no brain all-in you will lose immediatly your tanks vs a allied army.

 

In the end a RTS game is like a other sports: training. :)

If you want to gain an edge, buy a gaming mouse, like a Razer Copperhead. 😁

...Also that's what Industrial Plant is for.

Edited by laserbeak
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One Soviet tactic that may have not been mentioned in this thread yet is the idea of splitting against BF's.

there are occassional games where it makes a lot of sense to split your rhino army up to take out the BF army. Think of it as the BF is running away from your main rhino tanks you hit him on the side where he is running towards with your other rhino force. This is a wipe out of his BFs and works amazingly well.

Problem with this is it is a bit map dependent and situational. Also much more difficult to pull off than other advice. 

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On 8/25/2018 at 3:00 PM, laserbeak said:

BFs' have a machine gun but it's useless —please get your facts straight. There is no sense in us talking any further.

Well if they have Navy Seals garrisoned, that's just diminishing their intended role, which is to kill Tanks, making them an easier target. I'd go with all Guardian GIs' if I were them. I used to think [3] linked Prism Towers were unstoppable but there's always a way around it.

The point of a seal is to kill desos and fodder including but not limited to terror drones. 4ggis are plenty, when do you ever encounter a bf by itself?? Your scenarios are unrealistic in top tier matches. I can say bfs are better because I can just build a wall and it will shoot over it and rhinos would never touch it.... I’ve done tons of different things vs lower skilled players when I’ve gotten bored and wanted to drag the game out. Most of which aren’t feasible to be used in a proper match. You need to realize that human player can be consciously thinking about 3-4 different things at once including moving units in 2-3 places at once. You may not have met such a foe but believe me they are out there and all advice in this thread arguing against you is meant for playing against them.

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I had decent success sending a spy plane/paradrop over a BF and attacking it with tanks or using splits when possible. But admittedly it wasn't against pros :) 

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