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SoScared

[OpenRA] Red Alert Global League - Final Standings, Season 1!

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It’s wrong to use the original games logo for this because it’s not it.

 

You (you as in the OpenRA team in this case) need to think of a your own way of designating the separate mods for cases like these and etc.

 

It’s funny really how the ora team even let that logo be used in the first place for this.

 

The OpenRA team doesn't use the original logo for their mods. You've confused the competition (my project) with the game. So hurr durr right back at ya :)

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It’s wrong to use the original games logo for this because it’s not it.

 

You (you as in the OpenRA team in this case) need to think of a your own way of designating the separate mods for cases like these and etc.

 

It’s funny really how the ora team even let that logo be used in the first place for this.

 

The OpenRA team doesn't use the original logo for their mods. You've confused the competition (my project) with the game. So hurr durr right back at ya :)

No U..

I was talking in general, ORA needs a unique way of designating the mods, for tournaments, youtube, whatever, else people have to resort to wrongly use the original game logos.

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If someone is gonna clame that ora is that no one really from the dev team has any interest of stepping in and clarifying what ora is and what isn’t

Of the oh so many, latest case point http://kotaku.com/fans-remake-classic-rts-games-like-command-conquer-r-1775451029 which sells it as a modernized remake.

The "official dev team clarification" is available at http://www.openra.net/about/.  It's not our job to stalk everybody on the internet who has an opinion on OpenRA and post corrections if they write something wrong.  I do sometimes, but only as a hobby (you wrote something wrong, by the way ;)).

 

OpenRA's RA and TD mods are modernized remakes, whether you like it or not.  Feel free to argue about the semantics of the word "remake", but i'll point out that the definition I use (which allows for changes to make it suit a modern audience) is wide-spread enough to have its own wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_remake

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If someone is gonna clame that ora is that no one really from the dev team has any interest of stepping in and clarifying what ora is and what isn’t

Of the oh so many, latest case point http://kotaku.com/fans-remake-classic-rts-games-like-command-conquer-r-1775451029 which sells it as a modernized remake.

The "official dev team clarification" is available at http://www.openra.net/about/.  It's not our job to stalk everybody on the internet who has an opinion on OpenRA and post corrections if they write something wrong.  I do sometimes, but only as a hobby (you wrote something wrong, by the way ;)).

 

OpenRA's RA and TD mods are modernized remakes, whether you like it or not.  Feel free to argue about the semantics of the word "remake", but i'll point out that the definition I use (which allows for changes to make it suit a modern audience) is wide-spread enough to have its own wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_remake

Modernized, pretty much. But I don't see anything remade. The graphics are identical to the original ones because they were literally copied (except for the newly added stuff like the Flak Truck I mentioned and a new UI which is surprisingly in the spirit of RA). ORA also changes the gameplay considerably, so that's not a remake, it's more of a reimagination.

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To be fair, by that wikipedia defintion, the OpenRA mods could be considered fan remakes of sorts. Most of the remakes used as examples in that article are much more conservative in their alterations to the games that were remade however and many remakes that aren't faithful to the originals tend to come under heavy criticism for their failure to capture the feel of the original (FFV is a recent example I'm aware of, but there will be plenty of others). Mods such as Tiberian Dawn Redux would also be considered remakes in the same sense.

 

I think part of the rift between the OpenRA community and the CNCNet C&C community is that there have been a few instances of somewhat evangelical promotion of OpenRA as a replacement for the original games despite not being particularly faithful in the recreation. This rankled those who liked the originals and didn't see any need for replacements since the originals still run with a bit of patching, especially ones that didn't play the same.

 

Ironically, OpenRA isn't actually mentioned in the remakes section of wikipedia where it probably most rightfully belongs, instead its mentioned in the game engine recreation as an example of a top down "recreation" of the WW engines which I don't really agree it is, certainly not in its current state anyway, since it doesn't seek to emulate the behaviour of the original engine with regards to handling the original content.

 

This of course starts to conflate OpenRA the engine with the various games or "mods" that run on top of it and we all get into a nice game of arguing its one thing or another when we don't even agree on the definitions of the things we are arguing it is or isn't.

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No U..

I was talking in general, ORA needs a unique way of designating the mods, for tournaments, youtube, whatever, else people have to resort to wrongly use the original game logos.

 

Well then frankly, your reply came across as incoherent. Regardless, let's accept for a moment that using the original game logos with youtube videos, tournaments, forums and articles related to OpenRA are controversial (outside a selective group of concerned fans), exactly how and why should the OpenRA developers take it upon themselves to control this?

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When i was introduced to the RA2 mod, it’s supposed goals and intentions, it was presented as with intent of getting things working more like the original RA2 thus paving a way for RA2 modders to have an opportunity to accurately recreate their mods in ORA.

 

The more I worked on that mod the more I learned that keeping anything as original as possible is not of any intention what so ever and in fact they didn’t even want to know how things were done in the engine that much.

More time passed more I learned really the intention is to have something that looks and seems to act like in the original.

 

I'll accept the rest of your post but I have to respond to this: this will gonna change. Hopefully. Because, you remember, I also felt like that, there was no point in looking into that RA2 mod without caring about how RA2 itself worked.

 

These days though, I am supposed to be an actual maintainer (with rights and such, I just have hardware issues), with Phrohdoh seemingly abandoned it for good, so while I can not promise I will do stuff 1:1 - because, well, as you said, I'm biased against WW Pacific codebase, and stuff like the additional UI queue buttons like navy, I find nice - I do intend to be as accurate as meaningfully possible at least (for example, I'd still feel generalizing IronCurtain to something like an Ares GenericWarhead SW to make sure it kills infantry, plays deathanims and can apply the IC would be better than hardcoding something to do this all, since the "RA2 hardcode" way would only let all this happen if the infantry would disappear instead of being killed). Especially when it comes to the ingame logics.

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You guys are literally arguing over the semantics of an incredibly subjective word. A remake doesn't have to look exactly the same and have the same stats. It only needs to be in the spirit of the original, which ORA obviously is. Look at the difference between Counter-Strike 1.6 and Counter-strike: Source. It looks almost the same but plays out completely differently. Look at the difference between Jagged Alliance 2 and Jagged Alliance: Back in Action. Looks completely different, the story is changed and the gameplay is significantly different. Stop trying to fight over the definition of a word.

 

The only thing we can agree upon is that the pathfinding sucks. But unlike most games, this can fixed. And in future so too will most problems. To be honest we are all talking about an unfinished project.

 

And even if someone who isn't a developer uses Red Alert art, what does it matter? It's been 20 years. The art has been misused longer than the existence of OpenRA. Plus the game is freeware now. Arguably OpenRA only appeals to people who are nostalgic over the originals but don't want to be weighed down by poor UI and not using that as marketing point is stupid if they want people to play their FREE game.

 

Also i believe there are alot of mods outside of WW titles looking to make it into OpenRA. I'd say that the WW titles are just to show off the engine for people who want to make their own RTS game.

 

 

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No U..

I was talking in general, ORA needs a unique way of designating the mods, for tournaments, youtube, whatever, else people have to resort to wrongly use the original game logos.

 

Well then frankly, your reply came across as incoherent. Regardless, let's accept for a moment that using the original game logos with youtube videos, tournaments, forums and articles related to OpenRA are controversial (outside a selective group of concerned fans), exactly how and why should the OpenRA developers take it upon themselves to control this?

 

My personal suggestion would be for OpenRA as a community to produce a dev endorsed "press kit" of sorts with their own stylised logos for the various mods to be used in promotional materials and point people to them who show an interest in doing such promotion. Along with some guidelines for trying to avoid confusion with the original game while it still has an active community, I think that is all anyone can really ask. As pchote said, its not really the developers jobs to police the internet for people who promote OpenRA with material that could confuse it with the original.

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Why is OpenRA being promoted on a RA page when they are two different games? This forum has nothing to do with OpenRA.

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Why is OpenRA being promoted on a RA page when they are two different games? This forum has nothing to do with OpenRA.

Nobody prevents them from doing that. They have a right to advertise themselves. The only problem is the way they do it.

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I think part of the rift between the OpenRA community and the CNCNet C&C community is that there have been a few instances of somewhat evangelical promotion of OpenRA as a replacement for the original games despite not being particularly faithful in the recreation. This rankled those who liked the originals and didn't see any need for replacements since the originals still run with a bit of patching, especially ones that didn't play the same.

 

The only problem is the way they do it.

Did, please.  There was one person on our dev team who thought it was appropriate to aggressively evangelize here without discussing it with others first.  He got a bollocking about it from both communities and stopped.  It is rather unfair to hold a grudge against the project for something that one person did years ago, and says more about your community than ours.

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I'm not sure if you included my comment for context or as someone you perceive to be holding a grudge, but in case its the latter, let me state for the record now that I have no ill will toward the OpenRA project or its developers and community. I do have a side hobby of arguing the "C&C RA and OpenRA are different games" angle when I see discussions getting heavily weighted toward the "OpenRA is the second coming of RA, convert and be saved" crowd, but if that ever comes across as me criticizing OpenRA itself or what its dev team have accomplished I apologize as its not my intention. I just get a bit over zealous correcting the over zealous ;)

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Sorry, that was there for context only, and I didn't mean to imply anything about you (you are one of the most reasonable people in this community).

 

I thought it was appropriate to quote because it feels like the "don't advertise OpenRA here" arguments always end being driven by resentment over those specific old posts.

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If somebody wants to advertise OpenRA at least do it on a site that has relevance to it. CnCNet specifically supports the original games and a few modded ones (mental omega) not OpenRA. I suggest the commander and conquer reddit as it is anything cnc related or realtimestrategy reddit. Rather than preaching about a Tournament that isn't relevant to any member on this forum.

 

We look on CnCNet for classic cnc stuff, we'd look on the OpenRA forums for OpenRA stuff. Pretty simple.

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If somebody wants to advertise OpenRA at least do it on a site that has relevance to it. CnCNet specifically supports the original games and a few modded ones (mental omega) not OpenRA. I suggest the commander and conquer reddit as it is anything cnc related or realtimestrategy reddit. Rather than preaching about a Tournament that isn't relevant to any member on this forum.

 

We look on CnCNet for classic cnc stuff, we'd look on the OpenRA forums for OpenRA stuff. Pretty simple.

OpenRA isn't completely unrelated. It's an open-source implementation/reimagination of three titles that are supported on CnCNet. People can be interested in and play both, you know. This is as good a place as any to get people who might be interested in OpenRA to follow the tournament.

 

This wasn't intended as a CnCNet-only forum, it was a forum which belonged to CnC-Comm, which did focus on pre-RA2 titles, but was still open to anything C&C/Dune. If there's a "Newer C&C Games" (for Renegade onwards, which aren't supported on CnCNet) subforum still standing, than OpenRA damn well can be advertised here.

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If somebody wants to advertise OpenRA at least do it on a site that has relevance to it. CnCNet specifically supports the original games and a few modded ones (mental omega) not OpenRA. I suggest the commander and conquer reddit as it is anything cnc related or realtimestrategy reddit. Rather than preaching about a Tournament that isn't relevant to any member on this forum.

 

We look on CnCNet for classic cnc stuff, we'd look on the OpenRA forums for OpenRA stuff. Pretty simple.

 

Lets assume for a moment that you had a valid point.  How would you expect this to be enforced?

  • OpenRA developers post website and social media annoucements warning all our community members to avoid CnCNet, or risk being abused?
  • The forum admins here add a word filter to block any posts related to OpenRA?

They would do wonders for community relations, I'm sure.  The wider C&C community is too small to be able to deal with that kind of bullshit.

There is no reason why people can't follow, play, and enjoy both sets of CnCNet and OpenRA games.

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If somebody wants to advertise OpenRA at least do it on a site that has relevance to it. CnCNet specifically supports the original games and a few modded ones (mental omega) not OpenRA. I suggest the commander and conquer reddit as it is anything cnc related or realtimestrategy reddit. Rather than preaching about a Tournament that isn't relevant to any member on this forum.

 

We look on CnCNet for classic cnc stuff, we'd look on the OpenRA forums for OpenRA stuff. Pretty simple.

 

Lets assume for a moment that you had a valid point.  How would you expect this to be enforced?

  • OpenRA developers post website and social media annoucements warning all our community members to avoid CnCNet, or risk being abused?
  • The forum admins here add a word filter to block any posts related to OpenRA?

They would do wonders for community relations, I'm sure.  The wider C&C community is too small to be able to deal with that kind of bullshit.

There is no reason why people can't follow, play, and enjoy both sets of CnCNet and OpenRA games.

 

 

There's a forum clearly saying "Newer C&C games". But the OP decided to post it to the Red Alert forum instead which can potentially mislead people. Before posting a tournament, how about asking if cncnet would like to have OpenRA on their servers before thinking you (in general) have the liberty to promote tournaments. One step at a time.

 

Regarding your two dotted points. You think slandering CnCNet community would help? No one is getting abused here. Don't use other peoples services to selfishly benefit your own.

 

For your second point, you could simply not post non-Red Alert stuff on the original Red Alert forum, hence it got moved already.

 

How does a tournament sign-up do wonders for community relations? You're using someones platform to promote your own brand in hopes of taking people away from this community. This isn't benefitting mutually in any way. People play OpenRA because it's a different game, I really don't see why that is hard to accept. Some like both, some don't. We don't have to like OpenRA.

 

 

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Op is not an OpenRA developer, just a (very valued) community member.  He had absolutely no idea what he was getting himself in to when he posted this topic.

 

Your response nicely summarizes why your previous suggestion was so ridiculous.  The only way "we" (the openra developers AND the cnc-comm forum admins) could stop people from posting OpenRA related topics would be to publicly announce that this community does not accept discussion on OpenRA.  The dotted points and comment about community relations should have been self-evidently sarcastic, because nobody sensible would seriously consider them.

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Before posting a tournament, how about asking if cncnet would like to have OpenRA on their servers before thinking you (in general) have the liberty to promote tournaments. One step at a time.

OpenRA has nothing to do with any CnCNet server. Do think of what you're posting.

 

Also, they do have the liberty to promote just as CnCNet does there, because neither side has (yet) excluded the other. Fanboy.

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I could've submitted the post on to 'newer games' but I erroneously thought the post would belong to the 'Red Alert' subforum since 'newer games' listed RA2, RA3 as examples of subjects. The subject got moved, I achnowledged and didn't think twice about it. I was content with the post being in the 'General Discussion' forum. But it didn't end there beacuse someone took serious issue with my personal interpretation of what OpenRA and the Red Alert Global League is all about. I appreciate the discussions on what differentiates RA95 to OpenRA's Red Alert mod but that's about it.

 

Lashing out generalized accusations and tribalism (us vs them) is what got this thread to this place. For my part these "discussions" are now totally moot. If someone wants to continue this bickering I'd hope it could be exported to another thread. Another solution would be to set up a separate OpenRA subforum as with Red Alert++ to which I'd be more than happy to contribute to.

 

I'll be posting a summary on Season 1 of the Global League once its concluded and I'd like start up a new thread once Season 2 approaches.

 

Cheers

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Updated tables for round 10!

 

The last round is coming up and we have some interesting contentions across the divisions. In the Masters' Division, FiveAces beat Murto The Ray 2-0 on their match the previous week and put himself up as a big favourite in before the last round of the season. Both FiveAces and Murto The Ray have a delay match in addition to their week 11 (last round) match so it's not completely decided yet, but Murto needs 5A to lose a point or 2 in order to have a shot at taking the #1 spot and the 1st prize loot of $145. 2nd place gives $55.

 

Funny enough, 3rd place (gives $25) is open season for most of the remaining players. Medium Tank with 5 points has FiveAces and Barf as the remaining opponents. Gatekeeper's remaining opponents are Murto The Ray and Klaas. Klaas is playing title favourites FiveAces and Murto The Ray for his last 2 matches! Barf with his 2 points over the course of 6 matches also has a chance, as he has 2 delay rounds in addition to his round 11 match! Should he take home his remaining points (vs Gatekeeper, Medium Tank and Anjew), given the thinned out competition in the Maters',  then that would likely shoot him up to 3rd place.

 

In the Minions' Division there's an interesting trio battle at the top. Although I (SoScared) currently hold the 1st place ($40 prize) I have played all my league matches for the season and will be looking for a certain outcome between Abcdefg30 and Kazu who will play their last round match against eachother. Kazu will have to win both maches against Abc in order to claim 1st position, beating me on the guest point count. Abc needs to win only one match against Kazu, but, should that be a home point win and guest point loss, Abc and I would be tied in points, guest points and with a 1-1 in the match between us earlier this season, would force us to play a contested position match (best-of-3) after the last round to determine the division winner. The 4th and 5th place in the Minions' now grants direct promotion into the next seasons' Masters' Division, given the latter divisions' forfeitted players. Hamb has secured his promotion given that Testosterone Rex is the only player that can pull him down one place (given Hamb's guest points). NoobMapMaker has played his matches of the season and will be dependent on Testosterone Rex or Henry The Slav not picking him off his position, in order to advance to the Masters' Division. The bottom players of the Minions' Division are not in danger of relegation given the 4 of the above division's players forfeitting the league instead of making their way down to the Minions' Division.

 

The Recruit Division is a bit of a stir but the story has revolved much around OzzyOuzo for stomping players and collecting points almost uninterrupted throughout the season. His claim for the honorable 1st place is close but has the runner-up contender, player T, as his last opponent for the season. Both T and OzzyOuzo has a delay match in addition to ther match against eachother. Should T somehow be able to pull a double on OzzyOuzo in their match then it would be up to the performance in the delay matches (in which both are big favouritesd) to determine the winner. The top positions in the Recruit Division are mostly honorary given the fact that there is in total 6 league forfeitters in the above divisions, meaning the top 6 place finishers in the Recruit Division are rewarded a promotion in to the Minions' Division for the next season. Currently. 2 out of the 6 positions looks to be contested between GoldenHippo, DazUltra, Fenix and Udderz! The last couple of rounds has seemingly been tainted with a bit of players' fatigue, as multiple strikes has been given players mosly for blunders such as forgetting delays, uploading replays within a reasonable time etc. Looking at the table there can be no doubt this is mostly a league problem, not a player problem as the league has been continuously non-stop over the corse of almost 3 months! This is an issue which will have to be adressed in a discussion after the end of the season (dedicated thread).

 

The previous point makes the performance of player General in the Recruit Division that much more admirable. Regardless of not winning matches, General has played all of his weekly matches, without issue, and has been exemplary to what makes such a league thrive. I'm hoping I'm not betraying any trust by telling people this but there was expressed player fatigue in before the last few rounds of the season but he went through the last remaining matches regardless. This meant 2 more reliable matches (that counts) for every other player in the division, and helped the 3-divisioned Global League survive it's infacy. For that I'm especially thankful for!

 

To the last mile!

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Updated tables for round 10!...

Can you just post a youtube link of you reading all that^ next time please if you don't mind, I'm too lazy to read big walls of text, plus I'm a slow reader :D

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