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MapDesigner

Red Alert 2 Laboratory

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17 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

Yes :O

 

but let me guess first: that they can strike while moving? XD

Close but way off.

 

posted image

(The same goes for the sentry gun)

 

posted image

Same principle as with the tier one turrets.

In short, in a tank battle where you are Sovs and your enemy is Allieds, try to position your tanks directly above, below, left or right of the grizzlies, NOT at an angle. Obviously you won't be able to do this all the time, but if you do this with every chance you get, you'll start winning more tank battles.

Tell no one of what has transpired here today. Now go be a pro!

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14 hours ago, fir3w0rx said:

posted image

So, looking into the rules, the rhino has 5.75 range while the grizzly tank only has 5. I always thought that extra 0.75 was useless...

Interestingly, the sentry and the pillbox each have 5.5 range, so there may be some positioning in which they would be able to target a grizzly, but the grizzly wouldn't be able to target them.

EDIT: Indeed there is:

Untitled.png.0f2d1deaeb6f5522751b20e70f2343cb.png

 

If a grizzly is in a white cell, it can target the pillbox and the pillbox can target it.

If a grizzly is in a blue cell, neither it nor the pillbox can target each other.

If a grizzly is in a red cell, the pillbox can target it, but it can't target the pillbox.

Same goes for sentry guns.

Edited by Chrono Vortex
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Do units move the same speed going up/down as left/right ?

like do they cover the same amount of squares per minute, or is it based on visual distance?

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3 hours ago, scalpem said:

Do units move the same speed going up/down as left/right ?

like do they cover the same amount of squares per minute, or is it based on visual distance?

Well, the game treats cells like actual squares, meaning that it takes approximately 41% longer to traverse them across their diagonal than it does to traverse them across their width or length. That means that an object moving horizontally or vertically will travel 5 cells in about the the same time that an object moving diagonally will travel 7 cells.

Another interesting effect of cells being longer going horizontally or vertically is that base-crawling horizontally or vertically is more efficient, since the location at which you can place buildings is cell-based and not distance-based. Physically, you can place buildings about 41% farther away from other buildings going horizontally or vertically rather than diagonally.

...I should probably make some diagrams for this, huh?

EDIT: Alright, I hope you guys know your trigonometry ‘cause this shiz is about to get mathematical.

Cell.png.d32fa14167bec7cb7797688d47220ae4.png

If we say an in-game cell is x units by x units large, then its diagonals, which are going horizontally and vertically since the cell is a square rotated 45 degrees, are each x × root( 2 ) units in length (note that the square root of 2 is about 1.41).

Untitled2.png.53ef81c28a3b5b2c1c725d70e46e7835.png

Because of this, placing a new power plant in the red square would place it 2x units away from the original power plant, while placing the new power plant in either of the green squares would place it 2 × ( x × root( 2 ) ) units away from the original power plant.

Edited by Chrono Vortex
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Lol, impressive diagrams. 

Did you guys use Final Alert 2 to make them?

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1 hour ago, FReQuEnZy said:

Lol, impressive diagrams. 

Did you guys use Final Alert 2 to make them?

I don't know where Pythagoras Vortex^ got his images from, but I got all mine from good 'ol google, including my isometric grid. It looks like he did it properly though and used actual images from the mix files, where as mine were all cut and paste, some not even cut properly :P. I was going to use FA2's framework mode, but I couldn't get the tanks to face a specific direction, plus they didn't look like how they normally do in-game.

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Yeah, they are rendered differently in Final Alert 2.

You can double click the units and set the facing direction and also pick faction for colour, Allied are Orange and Soviet are Red.

posted image

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10 minutes ago, FReQuEnZy said:

Yeah, they are rendered differently in Final Alert 2.

You can double click the units and set the facing direction and also pick faction for colour, Allied are Orange and Soviet are Red.

I actually did that (double click) but I didn't notice the 'Direction' option. I think because right after I had a look at colors for the different 'Owners', I said fuck this, and closed it :D

Edited by fir3w0rx

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That range thing is useful.  I learned it from Zhasulan - i guess people on cncnet know him as other names like DTA.  I'm pretty sure there's more than one tile where the rhino can outrange the sentry.

But kids, this is why u dont chase full health rhinos with grizzlies!

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On 9/14/2017 at 9:06 PM, FlyingMustache said:

I think the build timer is the primary reason for that. The transition to YR nerfed the rhino timer by 30%, but the grizz timer was nerfed 50%. The grizz builds proportionately slower than the rhino by a 20% margin. Which is a difference everyone noticed. 

 

On 9/14/2017 at 9:13 PM, XXxPrePxX said:

Wow, I didn't know about the stats there, so it really is that bad. Yeah, then the argument that allieds are much weaker on YR compared to Ra2 holds with even stronger conviction.

 

Thx guys for pointing this out. I was surprised this info was not stated in the wiki page for grizzly tank  (shows original  not updated value) but rather only for rhino tank (shows both).

 

I have tested this with my stopwatch at Fast game speed (4), and found that Rhino Tank  took 22.5 Seconds to be manufactured, whereas it took grizzlies 20.7 seconds.  under the assumption that rhino build time is really 46 seconds, this leads to conclusion, from proportionality, that grizzly tank needs 42 seconds to manufactor.

 

Although I forgot to stop the watch for half a second, it wouldnt matter cuz I took measurement for manufacturing 10 tanks 

 

8 hours ago, fir3w0rx said:

(post deleted)

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@MapDesigner i don't know which topic are these quotes from. But actually, for both (Rhino ang Grizzly) tanks BuildTimeMultiplier=1.5

Info from rulesmd.ini (YR 1.001)

https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/7500-red-alert-2-laboratory/?do=findComment&comment=57622

Quote

You must have read the rules wrong. Rhino is 1.3 and grizz is 1.5

Spoiler

 

; **************************************************************************
; ***************************** Allied Units *******************************
; **************************************************************************

; Medium Tank
[MTNK]
UIName=Name:MTNK
Name=Grizzly Battle Tank
Image=GTNK
Prerequisite=GAWEAP
Primary=105mm
Strength=300
Category=AFV
Armor=heavy
Turret=yes
IsTilter=yes
Crusher=yes
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
TechLevel=2
Sight=8
Speed=7
CrateGoodie=no
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance
Cost=700
Soylent=700
Points=25
ROT=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=GenAllVehicleSelect
VoiceMove=GenAllVehicleMove
VoiceAttack=GenAllVehicleAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=
DieSound=GenVehicleDie
MoveSound=GrizzlyTankMoveStart
CrushSound=TankCrush
MaxDebris=2
; origional - Locomotor={55D141B8-DB94-11d1-AC98-006008055BB5}
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
;MovementZone=Destroyer ;gs FLAW needs to be changed to this when The Flaw is fixed
MovementZone=Normal
ThreatPosed=15    ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Accelerates=false
ImmuneToVeins=yes
Size=3
OpportunityFire=yes
ElitePrimary=105mmE
BuildTimeMultiplier=1.5;Individual control of build time


 

; Heavy Tank
[HTNK]
UIName=Name:HTNK
Name=Rhino Heavy Tank
Prerequisite=NAWEAP
Primary=120mm
Strength=400
Category=AFV
Armor=heavy
Turret=yes
IsTilter=yes
TargetLaser=no
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
TechLevel=2
Sight=8
Speed=6
CrateGoodie=no
Crusher=yes
Owner=Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs
Cost=900
Soylent=900
Points=25
ROT=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=GenSovVehicleSelect
VoiceMove=GenSovVehicleMove
VoiceAttack=GenSovVehicleAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=
DieSound=GenVehicleDie
MoveSound=RhinoTankMoveStart
CrushSound=TankCrush
Maxdebris=3
;origional - Locomotor={55D141B8-DB94-11d1-AC98-006008055BB5}
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
MovementZone=Destroyer
ThreatPosed=40    ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
DamageSmokeOffset=100, 100, 275
Weight=3.5
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Accelerates=false
ZFudgeColumn=8
ZFudgeTunnel=13
Size=3
OpportunityFire=yes
ElitePrimary=120mmE
BuildTimeMultiplier=1.5;Individual control of build time

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ezer_2000

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45 minutes ago, Ezer_2000 said:

@MapDesigner i don't know which topic are these quotes from. But actually, for both (Rhino ang Grizzly) tanks BuildTimeMultiplier=1.5

Info from rulesmd.ini (YR 1.001)

You must have read the rules wrong. Rhino is 1.3 and grizz is 1.5

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8 hours ago, FlyingMustache said:

You must have read the rules wrong. Rhino is 1.3 and grizz is 1.5

I think im blind then lol

I only can see 1.5 under both tanks x)

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11 hours ago, FlyingMustache said:

You must have read the rules wrong. Rhino is 1.3 and grizz is 1.5

IIRC the only vehicles with modifiers of 1.3 are robot tanks and tesla tanks.

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It's just strange because the rhino builds in about 11 seconds at normal game speed. If it's 1.5, it should build at about 13 seconds. Closer to the miner. I'm going to check the maps themselves to see if they have individual values. Remember xwis toe prism towers? 

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3 hours ago, FlyingMustache said:

It's just strange because the rhino builds in about 11 seconds at normal game speed. If it's 1.5, it should build at about 13 seconds. Closer to the miner. I'm going to check the maps themselves to see if they have individual values. Remember xwis toe prism towers? 

No

 

Whats that?

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33 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

No

 

Whats that?

On the XWIS server, a handful of the official maps had charged prism towers one shot any target

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1 hour ago, FlyingMustache said:

On the XWIS server, a handful of the official maps had charged prism towers one shot any target

That's just a bug in some official maps, not specific to the xwis server.

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On 9/28/2017 at 6:17 PM, FlyingMustache said:

It's just strange because the rhino builds in about 11 seconds at normal game speed. If it's 1.5, it should build at about 13 seconds. Closer to the miner. I'm going to check the maps themselves to see if they have individual values. Remember xwis toe prism towers? 

Hmmm,

 

So you think rhino build time multipier was reduced in each and every map of YR?

 

I have made all my tests in East vs Best map. (And from the same save game i have)

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On 9/29/2017 at 6:40 PM, MapDesigner said:

Hmmm,

 

So you think rhino build time multipier was reduced in each and every map of YR?

 

I have made all my tests in East vs Best map. (And from the same save game i have)

I didn't see a multiplier when I opened an official map in notepad, but I tested the speed between an official map and a map where I manually put in the 1.5 multiplier. The official map built the rhino in 11 seconds, the 1.5 map built the rhino at 13 seconds like I predicted. Test it yourself if you can. for some reason, it seems westwood changed the rhino to 1.3 build speed in the end.

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