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Coffee

XWIS VS CNC

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Now dont get me wrong i understand what CNC has done. But i am a vet player of XWIS and TBH i think CNC is taking the game 2 far for its grass roots . The entire dynamics changes the flow of the entire game . The largest issue being FPS i dont think XWIS was ever really in 60 fps . I dont think its ment to be played in 60fps . Yuri revenge is an RTS its suppose to be played in real time  not accelerated time i dont think our old PCs and slow Internets could reach 60 fps. if u change the FPS the game was meant to be played in that would effect movement speed to reaction speed.  Now in terms of Movement speed the ratio is gonna stay the same but the reaction speed will be different - So i will bring up BO and TC but this will effect TC - in a battle XWIS was all about THE TC - by u changing the Speed that changes the dynamics of warfare . Tactics Now for one Over committing was a fatal flaw in XWIS esp things like ambushes Deso flanking / traps etc. Now the tactics on XWIS and CNC are completely different - Now originally i thought this was because the community was different but i realized its just not all skill- its the FPS playing a factor  YOUR Changes and tweaks to thinks are changing the tactics / dynamic of the game with 60 FPS it makes it easier to rush with rookies or hit and run tactics on miners that wasn't so easy 2 do in XWIS unless u just have overwhelming numbers. YOur code for example has broken the AI as well code for - hard and brutal u made the AI extremely stupid and easier 2 spy . These are just some of the main examples theres much that can be argued.
but from what i can see seeing how this how CNC turned out i can only assume the devs have no idea how XWIS was played . I didn't even have to kill a dog to get a spy in i just walked in.... You are breaking the balance of the code Dont get me wrong. i understand that XWIS /EA didnt support the game much anymore or update it . I understand majority of the changes 2 8 players games and more but i think 60 fps should be limited to just 8 player games and survival/ spam maps . i mean u guys added high reso map previews etc etc... The game tweaks u did to the game mechanics im not happy about TBH i tried to alt over a spy once with 2 tanks yeah they drove around it...

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I'm not sure why you couldn't get 60fps on xwis. Maybe you lagged?

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has the same opinion.

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Posted (edited)

This is factually inaccurate. First of all, simply go to: http://xwis.net/ra2/

Select any player on the Ra2 Ladder and note their FPS. The FPS regularly is around 55+ which, is virtually the same on CNCNet. Additionally, if there are any speed tweaks that CNCNet is responsible for, that is almost universally welcomed by the community. From my experience, there is very little difference in the speeds in online play. In offline play, you can always adjust the game speed to your liking.

 

Now, in regards to your comments regarding A.I. The A.I. on the base game and the CNCNet game are not very different, if at all. I can spy either of them equally easily, a spy in general is lame against the A.I. anyway. There's no difference.

 

 

Edited by XXxPrePxX
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

This is factually inaccurate. First of all, simply go to: http://xwis.net/ra2/

Select any player on the Ra2 Ladder and note their FPS. The FPS regularly is around 55+ which, is virtually the same on CNCNet. Additionally, if there are any speed tweaks that CNCNet is responsible for, that is almost universally welcomed by the community. From my experience, there is very little difference in the speeds in online play. In offline play, you can always adjust the game speed to your liking.

 

Now, in regards to your comments regarding A.I. The A.I. on the base game and the CNCNet game are not very different, if at all. I can spy either of them equally easily, a spy in general is lame against the A.I. anyway. There's no difference.

 

 

Okay in regard to your ladder those are smaller player games 2nd that data you show is from 2017 a dead server. meaning its gets no traffic . The speed is much much faster then  XWIS and back of the day i had average enough specs for XWIS . If u are the original prep surely u remember how slow it was even at the fastest speeds i do not remember XWIS playing anywhere near these speeds - and yes i know the difference because i played offline as well I used my offline speed to compare to my online speed, So i mean if u are comparing modern XWIS speeds cause no1 using it up im sure it is faster..
(also thats 2017) with their being no traffic Most people would be using modern computers and internet - Im talking about the old days when people were still using dial up and DSL and computers with less thant 2gb of ram b4 a gb of ram... From what you are showing me - The game can run physically at 60 FPS but im saying thats not the intention - becuase the technology didn't exist . so from your proof you are right that it can PHYSICALLY run at 60fps but thats not really my point

if i compared 60  FPS  to my old offline speed. it would be similar if i compared - on the XWIS in the OLD days that would have been 2 fast i never had any one complain- i wanna guess our speeds were around 30-45 plus on average - when i play 45 FPS on CNC that feels natural - none of the users i ever played with back in the day ever complained about lag when the game play was around 40-45 fps anything slowers where everything didnt look smooth - and had delays we considered that lag . but i yeah im sure small games had a quicker FPS - even on XWIS wasnt there a way to pull up the FPS for the game we never had any real lag issues
 

No way they def tweaked some of the code.. there are lots of diffrences in general compared to XWIS . 2nd to get a dog into its tech like its war barraks and ref- i would have to kill the dogs 2 get in... i rarely have to kill a dog.. i just wait for it 2 go on patraol and legit just walk in.

and when i played on XWIS no1 complained about lag.... ever with me unless i was running stuff in the background or it wasnt me . No1 ever directly claimed i was the laggers. if someones lagging in the group its gonna lag all the players that last bit would be directed at deekon

Edited by Coffee

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2nd neither of those explains the shift in tactics from the different communities. while the communities and skills sets are different - Ive seen game play evolve differently - they ve been tweaked and changed by the advantages and differences in the CNC server . For example most people without an edge dont spam rookies they are extremely squishy and expensive - Yet with the CNC server due to the extra Speed in FPS people use them more rookies were dam near useless vs soviets on XWIS . They also use a lot more hit and run tactics - with rookies they didnt do that as much in XWIS . and yes i played both soviets and alies well enough. an i normally had the least amount of anti air . If theres no diffrence in XWIS vs CNC rookies wouldnt be so favored in CNC. I really do understand that they are trying to patch and fix up the game . They seem to be breaking things - Also in the game mode megawealth i dont think refiners are suppose 2 be built i could be wrong? i thought mega wealth edited that out? i havent played on their server in forever so idk TBH

The tactics we used to use because of slower frames are different from theirs- else they would be using the same tactics we used... -- even the old XWIS players - u see what im saying - Even if the skill set / community is different - they would have copied or we would still be using our same style of tactics... Unless u wanna chime in why as 2 they tactics are diffrent?

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Well, even if we grant that the speed has changed, I'd venture to say over 90% of the community is thankful that we get faster games. You would be in the small minority wishing for slower games, in this case -- there is always the game speed tool to use on CNCNet to slow down the game.

As far as the tactic changes go from TC/strategy based to more 'who can build the fastest', that's the way it always has been in this game. This game is about how fast an individual is, the speedier a person is, the better they are going to be generally. That hasn't really changed. I can write more on this when I get a better chance.

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This is the first time I've seen someone complain about the server being too fast :D

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If you think the game speed is too fast, you can always turn it down in the game lobby. Naturally many players will prefer 55+ FPS over 30s though.

CnCNet uses the exact same AI as vanilla YR, unless you enable the Brutal AI game option, which gives the AI some more cheats and makes it more aggressive.

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I wouldnt say the issues is a faster server . Its not really that im complaining about it . Im saying that the game was designed to work at X speed - and movement speed while the ratio is the same. its different. I mean for larger players games and survials yeah the 60 FPS is great - it was designed to  run at that speed. you are suppose to over commit your unit. with the extra speed i see less TC imo and less tactics

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I think the player who is causing the lag doesn't have as much delay as the other players. For the lagger, the game is slow(FPS) but responsive, for the other players game is slower FPS and actions have a long delay.  At least that's how it seemed when I was doing lag experiments on Tiberian Sun.

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On 10/13/2017 at 8:49 AM, Coffee said:

with the extra speed i see less TC imo and less tactics

4

That sentence doesn't make any sense.

With the extra speed the same tactics apply and many more become viable, the player just needs to be faster to execute them perfectly.

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On 13.10.2017 at 9:49 AM, Coffee said:

I wouldnt say the issues is a faster server . Its not really that im complaining about it . Im saying that the game was designed to work at X speed - and movement speed while the ratio is the same. its different. I mean for larger players games and survials yeah the 60 FPS is great - it was designed to  run at that speed. you are suppose to over commit your unit. with the extra speed i see less TC imo and less tactics

 
 

FPS is bound with animation and only then it makes a real difference. If Rifleman shoots in interval of 2-3 frames with game refreshing at 25 FPS, the same unit will shoot faster with 60 FPS refresh rate. Hence is why Blizzard made a huge mistake with refresh rate at the early version of StarCraft because it was bound to CPU speed. I don't have to mention that Blizzard's IP needs approx. 100 Mhz (even less) and when CPU clocks gained significant power the game was simply unplayable on newer CPU's. That's why the game had to be slowed down back to around 23 FPS (on fastest setting).

However, the C&C titles suffers from lack of stable refresh rate. Even though for newer rigs it's not a big deal to play 20 yo game, the game engine is still the same and FPS drops are still siginificant. Despite sincere desires of community hackers, some obstacles cannot be overcomed due to game engine which is simply obsolete and requires abandoned solutions no longer supported by modern systems. For some of You who don't follow: OpenRA runs flawlessly because it was written from scratch with up-to-date solutions used in gaming industry. Same things won't work with C&C95 or RA2 simply because game engine is a proprietary thing and freeware don't make it any easier. Even abandonware is not that abandoned if you rewrite application from ground-up.

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