Unanimous Change

[[CC] RaVaGe]

4 hours ago, ZiGZaG said:

This is actually a good point, i didnt consider this, on HV or dustbowl it might hurt a yuri badly. On HV you would definetly lose your oils, but i suppose disks or mms would work?

On the plus side it would make yuri playable on the vast majority of maps.

Considering that on HV it will be fast tech on both sides, Soviet & Yuri, however Yuri always techs faster so it should have a disk count advantage.

Now I don't know a 100% where or if mass disks starts moving in the favour of Soviets or Yuri. 

In theory Disks should have the advantage due to being able to move while attacking.

[LeOwNzAll]

There is also a problem in maps with lot of cliff; it will be very hard to stop any allied controlling the cliff.

Mirages > MM.

BF / IFV GGi > Discs.

As sov you can pass by pushing with deso; using conscripts/dogs as fodder; and rhino are more resistants.

 

I think if there is one Yuri beating everyone without playing hard we may think about changing something; but actually there is no.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

46 minutes ago, LeOwNzAll said:

I think if there is one Yuri beating everyone without playing hard we may think about changing something; but actually there is no.

2

@FlyingMustache Easy rank 1s?

[FlyingMustache]

2 hours ago, FReQuEnZy said:

@FlyingMustache Easy rank 1s?

Last month I got up there pretty easily, but Shogun grinded out the final day and got to rank 1 while I worked. It's hard to say really since very few people que for it.

[XXxPrePxX]

I think if there is one Yuri beating everyone without playing hard we may think about changing something; but actually there is no.

With all due respect, that is a very bad argument you are setting up for. For one, the current ladder environment is in no way competitive yet. Next, we've seen Mustache dominate the ladder as yuri, which brings me to my next point.

Historically, yuri faction has turned weak/average players into good players and good players into rank 1 players.

We look at Sunny who, otherwise, is a GOOD player. Now, he likely would have a hard time trying to get into top 10 as allieds/soviets when this game is competitive to some extent, but he is a good player that I can easily see ranked 10-40 in any given ladder as allies. You let him abuse yuri and he is the most hated rank 1 player of all time (the addition of map hack also helped, but that TOO is a common theme, yuri players have historically map hacked to get the advantage).

We look at Kickyou73 and Reano1 (Kickyou actually banned for maphack as well) who are both weak players overall. They'd competitively be in the ranks of 40-90 in any given ladder as allieds/soviets. However, you give them yuri and all the sudden reano1 becomes a rank 8-20 player. Give kickyou73 yuri faction and he becomes a 20-40 ranked player.

 

The list can continue to go on, but look at MustacheX. Give him Yuri faction and he is one of the best on the current ladder. Give him soviets/allieds and he isn't going to ahve anywhere near that same ratio of wins/losses.

Same with yourself, and other yuri players.

The bottom line has always been that players abuse yuri to get a higher rank in the ladder. These players are almost always the players that need yuri faction the most to advance their rank.

My argument isn't whether or not this is OK, but there is a clear relationship to taking Yuri faction in the ladder and boosting your rank greatly because of how abusive it is.

 

[ZiGZaG]

5 hours ago, FReQuEnZy said:

@FlyingMustache Easy rank 1s?

Not had any.

2 hours ago, FlyingMustache said:

Last month I got up there pretty easily, but Shogun grinded out the final day and got to rank 1 while I worked. It's hard to say really since very few people que for it.

I didnt even play on the last day. 

You got their easy by playing noobs and ra2 players inexperienced against the YR faction.

The only player that finished in the top 10 you even played against was Marsh, again an Ra2 player.

 Ridiculous to use this as an example.

 

On 2/17/2018 at 4:03 PM, FReQuEnZy said:

Considering that on HV it will be fast tech on both sides, Soviet & Yuri, however Yuri always techs faster so it should have a disk count advantage.

Now I don't know a 100% where or if mass disks starts moving in the favour of Soviets or Yuri. 

In theory Disks should have the advantage due to being able to move while attacking.

Yuri may tech slightly faster but i dont see why they would have a disk advantage. Siege are cheaper/faster with industry, also by the time he gets disks, a sov will likely have flaks.

Also the fact that HV has tech repair shop's means as soon as i get 1-2 siege yuri will lose his oils. On a map like dustbowl/Deadman's it would become impossible for yuri, without mag's yuri cant break a camp, if that camp is along a cliff edge e.g. siege, yuri becomes useless.

Leo is correct imo, without being able to lift off cliff's with mag's certain map's will become a walkover for svy/avy that being said it makes a lot more map's playable, SV, Toe etc but then deploy siege/prizim on these cliffs and yuri is done, it tilt's from one extreme to the other if you know what i mean? Tweaking mag's is difficult imo, yea they are the reason yuri comes across as so powerful, but if you change this too much yuri will be very weak.

Edited February 19, 2018 by ZiGZaG

[FlyingMustache]

Before this starts heading into anecdotal territory, let's get some more opinions on the rest of the community. I'm going to make a poll on the RA2/YR forum about qm. I would prefer an actual survey, but I'll do a poll for now to get a small idea on how people feel about qm before anything is done.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Why not just whip up a survey?

[LeOwNzAll]

14 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

 

 

With all due respect, that is a very bad argument you are setting up for. For one, the current ladder environment is in no way competitive yet. Next, we've seen Mustache dominate the ladder as yuri, which brings me to my next point.

Historically, yuri faction has turned weak/average players into good players and good players into rank 1 players.

We look at Sunny who, otherwise, is a GOOD player. Now, he likely would have a hard time trying to get into top 10 as allieds/soviets when this game is competitive to some extent, but he is a good player that I can easily see ranked 10-40 in any given ladder as allies. You let him abuse yuri and he is the most hated rank 1 player of all time (the addition of map hack also helped, but that TOO is a common theme, yuri players have historically map hacked to get the advantage).

We look at Kickyou73 and Reano1 (Kickyou actually banned for maphack as well) who are both weak players overall. They'd competitively be in the ranks of 40-90 in any given ladder as allieds/soviets. However, you give them yuri and all the sudden reano1 becomes a rank 8-20 player. Give kickyou73 yuri faction and he becomes a 20-40 ranked player.

 

The list can continue to go on, but look at MustacheX. Give him Yuri faction and he is one of the best on the current ladder. Give him soviets/allieds and he isn't going to ahve anywhere near that same ratio of wins/losses.

Same with yourself, and other yuri players.

The bottom line has always been that players abuse yuri to get a higher rank in the ladder. These players are almost always the players that need yuri faction the most to advance their rank.

My argument isn't whether or not this is OK, but there is a clear relationship to taking Yuri faction in the ladder and boosting your rank greatly because of how abusive it is.

 

Hey Prep ! I think this the best argument. If it's not; it is one. I'm open for a better argument!

I think - maybe i'm wrong - saying someone taking rank 1st easily without playing hard; or top 10 is 10 yuri; we may think that changing something. I played since 2002 to 2007 then just now; i never see it happened. At the most competitive time (2002) the ratio top 10 was like : 4 Sov / 4 Yuri / 2 Allied. In XWIS was like 6-7 Sov / 2-3 Yuri / 1 Allied.

Maybe today players are better playing with Yuri than before but i doubt it lol.

Sunny is a Yuri player. It means he played alot MORE with yuri than any other factions in QM. I don't know who is kickyou73 or Reano1; but seeing their nick; lose to them is a shame lol (it's not nice; but their nick seems very noob...).

If one of Sov/Allied player changes into yuri; They may  have worst ratio than playing as Allied/Sov. Can i say Sov/Allied  turns player into average to good players? No.

 

I played with showtime and he admitted himself that he does not know what to do; he was pumping WF and rhino; and just get minded by MM. I could be the worst Yuri players; spending my time playing TOE with crates; i would won anyway... No offense to showtime, he can't know what to do if he never played against.

You have to use rhino / flak / drone / deso / chopper; hit and run; micro your units etc. I admit that i think it requires more skill than playing SvS (pumping wf/rhino).

 

[[nra]Buffalo]

On 2/19/2018 at 10:52 PM, XXxPrePxX said:

 

 

With all due respect, that is a very bad argument you are setting up for. For one, the current ladder environment is in no way competitive yet. Next, we've seen Mustache dominate the ladder as yuri, which brings me to my next point.

Historically, yuri faction has turned weak/average players into good players and good players into rank 1 players.

We look at Sunny who, otherwise, is a GOOD player. Now, he likely would have a hard time trying to get into top 10 as allieds/soviets when this game is competitive to some extent, but he is a good player that I can easily see ranked 10-40 in any given ladder as allies. You let him abuse yuri and he is the most hated rank 1 player of all time (the addition of map hack also helped, but that TOO is a common theme, yuri players have historically map hacked to get the advantage).

We look at Kickyou73 and Reano1 (Kickyou actually banned for maphack as well) who are both weak players overall. They'd competitively be in the ranks of 40-90 in any given ladder as allieds/soviets. However, you give them yuri and all the sudden reano1 becomes a rank 8-20 player. Give kickyou73 yuri faction and he becomes a 20-40 ranked player.

 

The list can continue to go on, but look at MustacheX. Give him Yuri faction and he is one of the best on the current ladder. Give him soviets/allieds and he isn't going to ahve anywhere near that same ratio of wins/losses.

Same with yourself, and other yuri players.

The bottom line has always been that players abuse yuri to get a higher rank in the ladder. These players are almost always the players that need yuri faction the most to advance their rank.

My argument isn't whether or not this is OK, but there is a clear relationship to taking Yuri faction in the ladder and boosting your rank greatly because of how abusive it is.

 

hit the nail on the head, with this post