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heldro

Lets talk about noobs

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9 hours ago, NoGameNoGame said:

From all this ladder talk, I must ask, how do you guys find a ladder match? I literally queue up for 15 minutes and no match found. Is the ladder either like super empty or am I doing something horribly wrong?

you call 15 mins to get a game through qm client long? lols.

call it hours :P 

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6 minutes ago, Legolas said:

you call 15 mins to get a game through qm client long? lols.

call it hours :P 

Either sit waiting or look whos on the ladder and online and pm them for games.

 

Personally i think it was handled poorly when released, it should have been mass advertised, it couldve been quite succssesful but the staff seem more interested in spending a year doing unnecessary further testing  in alpha stage and barely anyone knows its even there.

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2 hours ago, ZiGZaG said:

Personally i think it was handled poorly when released, it should have been mass advertised, it couldve been quite succssesful but the staff seem more interested in spending a year doing unnecessary further testing  in alpha stage and barely anyone knows its even there.

6

Yeah, look at games Like PlayerUnknown's Battleground that was a pre-release title that you had to pay for and it was full of bugs, these kind of releases are becoming the norm.
It's easier to test for bugs and find weak spots with a lot of active testers.

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16 minutes ago, FReQuEnZy said:

Yeah, look at games Like PlayerUnknown's Battleground that was a pre-release title that you had to pay for and it was full of bugs, these kind of releases are becoming the norm.
It's easier to test for bugs and find weak spots with a lot of active testers.

PUBG is a fantastic game, but yea my point exactly.

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Im a noob, and i have played this game a long time ago on my ps1

i have a question so i can understand these things better..

how can i team up in the game with others?

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4 minutes ago, marikunan said:

Im a noob, and i have played this game a long time ago on my ps1

i have a question so i can understand these things better..

how can i team up in the game with others?

u played ra1 on your ps1?

this is ra2/yr topic mabye ask somewhere here

 

https://forums.cncnet.org/forum/39-red-alert/

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Another thing is why was RA2 popular in the first place? It was before esport was a thing and most people are just enjoying building bases and command a cool army. That is why you see "no noob rush" and money and camp map, because these facilitate building a large base and have a large army. It is cool and fun. As soon as you go competitive the game change drastically, which can be said for all RTS. You have to put constant attention to all front, micro manage low HP unit, keeping track of production, while paying attention to enemy and find their weakness. It is very exhausting, and I am saying this as a very competitive player from games like Overwatch.

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when i just started playing the game i would also get upset whenever people rushed me, i would think the same thing: how is this fun, just let me build up before i fight you. but as i got better in the game i understood thats not how the game works and if you can get an advantage by attacking early then you will take it.

these players think they lost because you used a lame rush (in their eyes every form of attack within 5 minutes is called a rush) but truth is they loose so fast because there is clearly a skill gap. you can wait for them to build up but you would still deafeat them easily. if i notice my opponent is clearly of a lower skill level i will usually just build up a castle and let him try to attack. its like holding back when playing football with a child. you give these players the illusion they can compete with you but truth is they just need to get better by getting outplayed but they are not willing to do that and will dismiss any way you beat them they dont understand or master as lame or cheats.

these days most new games are dumbed down with 1000 of different options and customizations and level up systems so the skill barrier between players becomes smaller, ra2 is before that time, you just need to take alot of losses and be willing to improve ur game by learning from those.

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dune patrol noobs

Laughed a lot about this classification.  I think, you devoted the whole classification to one person :)

 

Any way, what is the point of the topic? Do you have some problems with noobs, or do we have to discuss arogantly, how mighty we are, and how pathetic are they? 

 

 

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Just trying to get insight into why they choose to play a dumbed down version of the game and why they dont want to progress to playing the game its meant to be played and perhaps find out ways to motivate them to do so.

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I think the title of this thread better fits 'the different kind of playergroups in CnCnet'

Even the original RA2 supported mod maps, so I am not sure how playing an unofficial map is not 'playing the game how it is meant to be played'

I kind of play everything, except ladder. I am about average. The reason why I do not play as much official maps vs veterans is purely because I do not really have fun playing games with people way above my skill range, while unofficial maps or official maps like dune patrol are played with okay people, which means less stress and less srsbusiness.

I play Sadona as well from time to time, and what I noticed negative about this map when I took a half year or so break, is that now everyone plays this map with Superweapons off. This map is do-able with SW on, but when its off its one big boring camp fest, and on most part shit. For anyone that host Sadona and read this: please host with SW on again.

P.S: I am surprised you didn't put a list of 'Extra Small' noobs. That map is dominating CnCnet as much Funny big map 4 was dominating XWIS, when it comes to custom maps.

TL:DR: Everyone plays games a different way. A lot of RTS games had custom map features, most famous would be Warcraft 3. The custom map possibility with that game is/was insane, and added countless hours of additional replay value when it comes to online play.

Edited by Ra2Nub
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Whatever the "solution" is, a thread that boils down to "How can we stop people from having fun in a way that I don't approve of?" isn't going to help. Encourage players who like unlimited money turtle maps to try something new? Sure. Starting by telling them how they are having the wrong kind of fun? No.

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I think quix might be an exception to the "noob rule".  Considering he was a ToE player not that long ago and now most people consider him decent ^

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Something that's so badly missing on here is a sticky thread for newer players. There had been one on Strike Team that helped me a great deal when it came to important fundamentals like scouting, build orders, tank control, etc. Can't someone start a sticky thread on here going over all that stuff? This way, we can give the URL to players to read over and help steer them in the right direction. This would also be a great way to help train players who know little to no English as they can copy and paste the text onto an online translate service.

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Just trying to get insight into why they choose to play a dumbed down version of the game and why they dont want to progress to playing the game its meant to be played and perhaps find out ways to motivate them to do so.

As I remember RA2 and YR always was full of people, playing mod maps, or team games with crates. Most of players are always were noobs that didnt make any progress for years.

 

As for motivation, there is no way to force some one to progress in the game, but we can help those who already motivated. 

As a solution, maybe it would be good idea to make video guides, upload them on youtube, and make people watching and learning.  Today, as it already been said, we have great skill gap between veterans and newbies. If you go QM, you getting either PRO that rape's u hard, or you get total noob that is not worthy. In early days, points system allowed to match opponent (not ideally equal, but it worked).  So, when a person gets raped hard by pro, it doesnt learn something, but getting stressed and take's it impulsive. So, in my opinion, video guides about hot keys, BO's on diff maps, lessons about tank control, may help those people who are motivated to study this game, and seeking for help.

I can do recording, commentating, and uploading game guides, but I doubt that I can do everything ideally. I may give people BO's that are not best for the map, because I'm not super PRO player. May need help from much better player, who can make text guides, which I will use as a senario for future videos.

 

Also, if you want ladder to be active, you need to deal with Yuri faction. I belive that this country was the most annoying since the game coming out. For example, why should I go to QM to face Yuri, if I can play in lobby, and avoid this faction?

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12 hours ago, Chandler said:

I think quix might be an exception to the "noob rule".  Considering he was a ToE player not that long ago and now most people consider him decent ^

there's other players like sypoy he's toe player and he's very good Toe crates isn't rly that noobi it's kinda about luck of the crates u get and have a good TC over ur army since it involves big armies anyway
 

 

6 hours ago, Win4ester said:

Also, if you want ladder to be active, you need to deal with Yuri faction. I belive that this country was the most annoying since the game coming out. For example, why should I go to QM to face Yuri, if I can play in lobby, and avoid this faction?

i think we put ourselves into disadvantage we see yuri is op and the other players playing it just for that while we can play yuri ourselves instead of complaining or getting stuck with 1 function [ playing soviet only or allies only ] iam a soviet player mostly but when i see a yuri player i just change to yuri myself we gatta just face the reality that this game is 17 + years old it's not perfect it will have some flaws

Edited by DoDger

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8 minutes ago, DoDger said:

there's other players like sypoy he's toe player and he's very good Toe crates isn't rly that noobi it's kinda about luck of the crates u get and have a good TC over ur army since it involves big armies anyway
 

 

i think we put ourselves into disadvantage we see yuri is op and the other players playing it just for that while we can play yuri ourselves instead of complaining or getting stuck with 1 function [ playing soviet only or allies only ] iam a soviet player mostly but when i see a yuri player i just change to yuri myself we gatta just face the reality that this game is 17 + years old it's not perfect it will have some flaws

Yuri is kinda like these noobs we are talking about. Noobs play unlimited money maps etc because they enjoy it and dont know how to compete with a good player.

The majority of good/average player's dont play yuri for similair reasons, dont know how and dont find it as fun, ironic eh? Kinda makes complaining about the noobs rather hypocritical.

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7 hours ago, Win4ester said:

As a solution, maybe it would be good idea to make video guides, upload them on youtube, and make people watching and learning.  Today, as it already been said, we have great skill gap between veterans and newbies. If you go QM, you getting either PRO that rape's u hard, or you get total noob that is not worthy. In early days, points system allowed to match opponent (not ideally equal, but it worked).  So, when a person gets raped hard by pro, it doesnt learn something, but getting stressed and take's it impulsive. So, in my opinion, video guides about hot keys, BO's on diff maps, lessons about tank control, may help those people who are motivated to study this game, and seeking for help.

This is something ive been considering doing lately, a complete comprehensive set of video tutorials explaining everything.

Also if the noob/weaker player is willing to learn they will ask for advice most dont though.

Edited by ZiGZaG

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13 hours ago, Chandler said:

I think quix might be an exception to the "noob rule".  Considering he was a ToE player not that long ago and now most people consider him decent ^

it would be great if all(or most)of the other noobs would think  like quix...there are some people who chose to play pro games rather than games like toe but still they are not so many.probably less than 20 over a year.

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2 hours ago, ZiGZaG said:

This is something ive been considering doing lately, a complete comprehensive set of video tutorials explaining everything.

Also if the noob/weaker player is willing to learn they will ask for advice most dont though.

this is a good idea.we need to put together videos of pro sov/allied/yuri players and explain what they do in very small details.but after doing so, the forums admins should support this youtube channel and give it a very big highlight as its one of the biggest things that might happen this old game in the recent years.people whom have youtube channels might want to link this tutorial channel in their channels too so that we would have a growing number of viewers and as a result more good players.

a point to notice here is that they need to be fun to watch.if not, people would rather watch the videos in channels like kike,bryan vahey, etc and enjoy their commentaries and fun scenes(no offense towards these guys but they're really not in the level to give others a right point of view to the pro aspect of this game).

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actually i think bryan's video's are really good. he understands how the game works and he explains his decisions very well. he is getting alot of views and from the comments on his video's people seem to be really interested and are learning from those video's

Edited by heldro
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7 minutes ago, heldro said:

actually i think bryan's video's are really good. he understands how the game works and he explains his decisions very well. he is getting alot of views and from the comments on his video's people seem to be really interested and are learning from those video's

i disagree, ive watched some of his video's and his lack of ability/experience lead to him giving a lot of flawed advice. His reach on youtube however is fantastic.

 

14 minutes ago, Legolas said:

this is a good idea.we need to put together videos of pro sov/allied/yuri players and explain what they do in very small details.but after doing so, the forums admins should support this youtube channel and give it a very big highlight as its one of the biggest things that might happen this old game in the recent years.people whom have youtube channels might want to link this tutorial channel in their channels too so that we would have a growing number of viewers and as a result more good players.

a point to notice here is that they need to be fun to watch.if not, people would rather watch the videos in channels like kike,bryan vahey, etc and enjoy their commentaries and fun scenes(no offense towards these guys but they're really not in the level to give others a right point of view to the pro aspect of this game).

Ive been considering this for a while but im having some issues getting recording software set up properly, if i find someone to help me out ill probably start doing this shortly.

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1 hour ago, ZiGZaG said:

Ive been considering this for a while but im having some issues getting recording software set up properly, if i find someone to help me out ill probably start doing this shortly.

i can record through pc with bandicam. what's your problem?

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Yeah I agree. As mentioned above, helping them improve in a competitive, quick match style will encourage them to play more of those types of games. It's the same with anything else really: the better you get at something (whatever it is), the more fun it becomes.

Or you can just trick them into playing with you... then rape them! (I mean in the game, not literally). Kind of like this:

https://youtu.be/KAJd2DJHztE?t=64

(I'm not saying they're monkeys, it's just an analogy)

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