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a1nthony

How to beat yuri?

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Hi, this has been a tough question for decades, although yuri is OP.. there are tactics, tips, and tricks to try balance this out. In this topic you can ask any questions   Be they general or sceneraio specific and I will answer to the best of my ability/ and or maybe a veteran will chime in once or twice. The most frequently asked questions and best answer will be edited into this first post... maybe this will help people get a better grasp against yuri!

so what are you waiting for? Ask away....

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So thought process; in order to defeat something you exploit their weaknesses. What weaknesses does the vanilla yuri faction have? We can categorize all major and minor weaknesses, I will start with a couple

major:

-Scouting

minor:

-slaves

 

does anyone else have anything to add to these lists?

 

 

Edited by a1nthony

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Yuri's one true weakness is the early game scouting and inability to acquire tech buildings. Of course, as soon as they get a gattling tank that inability goes away, or, if they spend a sufficient amount of money to acquire the techs they can. Still, scouting remains a big problem for Yuri and rightfully so.

Other weakness: Yuri has a really hard time applying pressure to structures early. It's hard for Yuri to kill your base with any sort of rush. That's why as soviets it's often best to go 2-3 miners from war, build to tech and neglect rhinos early on. There's not much yuri can do to kill your base early on... a few desos and yuri is forced to go away. 

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Yuri has a very bad economy early, eating their slaves early with your dogs after scouting will keep their eco down,and then a minute or two later sending a deso in a flak track to their miners, at this time of the game the Yuri will have no money at all and it's almost impossible to kill the deso with a slave miner due to miners being bugged and running away from enemy units. If the Yuri player just camps all game they are basically handing you the win for free, you just tech up and keep iron drones their army until your nuke is up then you nuke / IC rhinos and gg.

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My question to you - @Andy. and @XXxPrePxX :

How to beat Yuri in FFA and what specific aspects maybe need to be nerfed in a FFA game?

Most times you can't aggressively focus on the early ecnomic pressure.

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9 hours ago, cypher said:

My question to you - @Andy. and @XXxPrePxX :

How to beat Yuri in FFA and what specific aspects maybe need to be nerfed in a FFA game?

Most times you can't aggressively focus on the early ecnomic pressure.

A FFA game has many more variables involved. I would say just make sure you apply pressure to the yuri player early on if at all possible. The other problem with FFA and Yuri that leads me to believe that you are playing with yuri on the larger maps that aren't really 'balanced' or fair to face off against yuri on. So, you are at a high disadvantage. 

Usually when I play FFG's and yuri is chosen or picked at random, most the other users in the game tend to try to attack him first. That usually works out pretty well. The biggest problem for yuri players in FFA is trying to kill an enemy. They don't have a strong attack force (to kill enemy's base) and if they take their army out of their base then they will be vulnerable by attacks from other players. The one tactic to look out for is the floating discs. If they amass a large army of discs then they can attack enemy's at will and run away with the healing discs and still leave their main army at their base for protection. That's pretty deadly, but that's also why you try to put pressure on them early in the FFA so they can't get the army of discs. :D

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Well sounds reasonable. I thought about nerfing disks and mastermind. But if it's a "normal" map without balancing changes, it's pretty bad if you face yuri's army on a skilled hand. It might be a good choice to force the yuri player to stay in his base or - if me moves out, try to counter attack his base...yeah...didn't thought about it that much.

 

What do you mean by larger maps aren't really balanced? Can't imagine you talk about ore amount. Is there something special to balance a map for yuri?

 

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5 hours ago, cypher said:

What do you mean by larger maps aren't really balanced? Can't imagine you talk about ore amount. Is there something special to balance a map for yuri?

In competitive 1-on-1 gameplay such as the Quick Match ladder on CNCNet we have to manually alter what maps the Yuri faction can be played on. 

This is for a few reasons:

1: Yuri's boomer rush ability allows them to destroy an opponents base on almost all water maps in a very quick and unfair amount of time. It's brutally hard to stop in a 1on1 scenario. 

2: Yuri's initiates garrision strength makes facing off against yuri on City maps with lots of garrisons also very unfair. A few initiates in a building is an impenetrable early defense and just not right.

3: Maps with tons of pinch points/cliff spots give Yuri an unfair advantage since magnetrons can sit there and own the critical points.

 

Looking at BIG 6/8 player maps, most big maps have either Water, or tons of garrisionable buildings, or tons of easy cliff clinch points. Not many big maps work well against Yuri. You can think about Sedona pass and all the cliffs it has or East vs. Best with the cliffs or Bay of Pigs with the water boomer rush. etc.

 

5 hours ago, cypher said:

I thought about nerfing disks and mastermind.

I'm not sure what the best route is to fix yuri, but the problem with nerfing Discs is that Discs are yuri's primary unit to kill an opponent's base. Yuri needs *something* to destroy an opponents base. It's all a delicate balance. Perhaps their auto-heal feature is unfair. 

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From my experience the Yuri player just gets 5v1'd in a FFA and then he's out of the game.

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3 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

Yuri needs *something* to destroy an opponents base.

Lashers, Magnetrons, Disks and opponents tanks.

Delicate my arse.

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1 hour ago, RaVaGe said:

Lashers, Magnetrons, Disks and opponents tanks.

Delicate my arse.

Lasher's get owned, magnetrons are extremely delicate and slow (i.e. take forever to kill a structure). Disks are the only fast option to kill structures equivalent to the soviets Rhinos and of course the allied tech force of prisms just destroy the base in seconds. 

When I'm yuri, my biggest problem is usually finding ways to quickly own the opponents structures. Outside of Yuri prime somehow owning the entire base, there isn't many options. Of course the response can be that it's a different gameplay, but still need something like the Discs. 

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I suppose we can break down yuri main units weaknesses and strengths and stay on topic. 

Magnetron-

This is yuris main “support” unit for his army, and a lethal killer when it has terrain and structures in the area to drop opposing units on. 

Strengths:

dodge planes easy, kills buildings with other units. Kills units with terrain and cliffs (trees).very hard to counter if you opt to number magnetrons and have micro, and still easy to use if you opt to use ctrl shift. Can lift navy out of water, can bring units in to take with masterminds, can stop opposing units from moving briefly, and ruin formations  The perfect support unit.

Weaknesses:

dies in one harrier shot. Can’t target infantry. Sluggish movement. Doesn’t do any direct damage to units. Does minimal damage to structures.

Common unit counters:

desolators, harriers(eagles), drones.

Main lethal magnetron tactic:

killing miners by lifting and dropping on ore refineries.

 

ill try to do one unit everyday when I’m bored, what are people’s thoughts on the magnetron? Anything I missed or didn’t touch on, anything you disagree with?

 

Edited by a1nthony
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On 12/17/2018 at 8:15 PM, Andy. said:

Yuri has a very bad economy early, eating their slaves early with your dogs after scouting will keep their eco down,and then a minute or two later sending a deso in a flak track to their miners, at this time of the game the Yuri will have no money at all and it's almost impossible to kill the deso with a slave miner due to miners being bugged and running away from enemy units. If the Yuri player just camps all game they are basically handing you the win for free, you just tech up and keep iron drones their army until your nuke is up then you nuke / IC rhinos and gg.

This pretty much sums up the imbalance / gayness of yuri perfectly. Even  if you get far enough ahead by doing everything right and outplaying him early on--generally enough to win an allied or soviet opponent in 5 minutes--  you still need invulnerability and nuclear missiles to win l0l. 

On a more positive note,  i recommend france vs yuri, althought i havnt tried it much, so maybe its terrible. But on paper it sounds like a hard matchup for yuri.

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I haven't played the game for 6 years now, but I can for sure make a list of what I know about their weaknesses

Offensive weakness:

lack of anti tank/structure damage output

weak against air unit swarms, ex: carrier hornets, harrier squadrons, kirov parade, rocketeer, etc

heavily relies on mind controlled units to attack

if the mind controlling unit dies, the chaos will turn to your side instead 

weak navy

 

Defensive weaknesses

mind control units & building have a limit to how much they can take on

lack of AoE damage

Doesn't have much to defend with besides units.  Since only 2 defensive structures are given

 

Economical weaknesses

bad transportation, hard to get engineers to distant tech buildings

Slaves are not very reliable when enemies have anti infantry units nearby

Slave miner is stationary for most of the time, easy target for missiles and also hard to run away

 

 

 

Edited by TrainerWroyce

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To beat Yuri as Sov

Counter early rush (mags, gats, infantry, lashers) with deso

Counter masterminds with drones + Flak rush with at least 5/6 flags to overload it

Counter discs with mass flak

Makes IC and nuclear missile.

Use IC on combination of 2 drones, 6 tanks and 1 or 2 flaks with deso. Rush base. Use drones to target masterminds, use tanks to attack power and then lab to deactivate force-shield. Deploy desos in base to clear all infantry and gats and mags. Keep using tanks to kill all vital structures until they die of deso radiation. Easy win.



To beat Yuri as allied.

Tech fast. Mass mirage, bfs and prism tank. Make ggi ifvs instead of grizzly early, I recommend, because you can use those later on flying discs.

I recommend going heavy on prism tanks more then anything because mags are the biggest problem with yuri. Without prisms countering mags yuri can easily pick off mirage and bfs and mind control them. Prism can own mags and Masterminds.

 

Once I'm back on I will demonstrate this. But in the meantime this is the strategy for the info of all new players . xD

 

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@TrainerWroyceWelcome to the board and nice to have you back after 6 years! 

However, I have reasonable doubts on much of what you stated here.

4 hours ago, TrainerWroyce said:

Offensive weakness:

lack of anti tank/structure damage output

weak against air unit swarms, ex: carrier hornets, harrier squadrons, kirov parade, rocketeer, etc

heavily relies on mind controlled units to attack

if the mind controlling unit dies, the chaos will turn to your side instead 

weak navy

First point about anti-tank/structure is fine.
However, yuri is NOT weak against air units. In fact, they are wayyy overpowered in the anti-air department. Gattling tanks and Gattling cannons mow down pretty much every unit you listed. 
Not sure how relying on mind control units is a weakness. I understand your point that there is chaos, but that is yuri's game play and more often then not, it's a major strength.
Weak navy may be true but only in the limit as time increases far into the future. Yuri has by far the strongest navy in the most important time of the game (the first 5 minutes). Yuri has the only navy unit that can take out an entire opponent with a rush within 2/3 minutes thus making water maps unplayable against yuri.

 

 

4 hours ago, TrainerWroyce said:

Doesn't have much to defend with besides units.  Since only 2 defensive structures are given

That's pretty much all that's needed. Allies: Pillbox/Patriot/Prism Tower, Soviets: Sentry/Flak Cannon/ Tesla coil, Yuri: Gattling Cannon, Psykik Tower 

While Yuri's lack of a $500 defensive structure is harmful for them, they make it up by having a defensive structure that is both ground and air in one. Also, the psykik tower is incredibly powerful in stopping any rush as opposed to the Tesla coil or prism tower which can't stop an aggressive early game rush.

 

4 hours ago, TrainerWroyce said:

Economical weaknesses

bad transportation, hard to get engineers to distant tech buildings

Slaves are not very reliable when enemies have anti infantry units nearby

Slave miner is stationary for most of the time, easy target for missiles and also hard to run away

Slaves are very reliable and the slave miner is likely the best economic object in the game as it transports itself anywhere on the field and also has a weapon attached to it. Also, has insane building health. I would not call it a weakness. 

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The Gatling tank and tower part might have a debate since I am assuming the discussion is about player vs player.  Gatling defenses can build up to an incredible single target damage, but that requires some time to execute, if the targets have very low health then it will very likely have to work with its weakest state.  Even if it’s faced against targets like kirovs, it may struggle against a massive horde like those seen in survival compared to the AA vehicles from the other 2 alliances.  I don’t know if this is exact but I think flak tracks and 3 star IFV might perform way better with their AoE projectiles.  And a mention to the part where I said weaknesses, it is relative in mid and late game times.  Weak in anti tank because it doesn’t have units like the apocalypse tanks, mirage tanks, etc, those kind of units designed for armored vehicles.  And anti structure is also relatively weaker than the prism tanks and V3 launcher in damage.

 

while slaves miners can basically set up a refinery everywhere, the slaves themselves are especially vulnerable to allied IFVs with Navy SEAL or just snipers camping them.  Or V3 launchers firing at the main refiner which other miners have less worries about(war miner is slightly more evasive even if it’s not as mobile as chrono miner)

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On 12/21/2018 at 4:14 PM, Ismael100 said:

To beat Yuri as Sov

Counter early rush (mags, gats, infantry, lashers) with deso

Counter masterminds with drones + Flak rush with at least 5/6 flags to overload it

Counter discs with mass flak

Makes IC and nuclear missile.

Use IC on combination of 2 drones, 6 tanks and 1 or 2 flaks with deso. Rush base. Use drones to target masterminds, use tanks to attack power and then lab to deactivate force-shield. Deploy desos in base to clear all infantry and gats and mags. Keep using tanks to kill all vital structures until they die of deso radiation. Easy win.

 

Agreed.



To beat Yuri as allied.

Tech fast. Mass mirage, bfs and prism tank. Make ggi ifvs instead of grizzly early, I recommend, because you can use those later on flying discs.

I recommend going heavy on prism tanks more then anything because mags are the biggest problem with yuri. Without prisms countering mags yuri can easily pick off mirage and bfs and mind control them. Prism can own mags and Masterminds.

 

Once I'm back on I will demonstrate this. But in the meantime this is the strategy for the info of all new players . xD

Disagree, mass prism will always lose to Yuri as masterminds can just walk in to an allied with no frontline and take all the prisms no problem.

 



As for Prep, I'd leave this discussion to people that actually know the matchup to help out people that don't, you are clearly out of your element and nothing you say is even remotely accurate.

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OniOn has some good points/strategies So lets go Into depth on them this post I directed towards onion or anyone else who is knowledgeable, I mean no disrespect as my posts are a means to spark conversations to make noobs and high level players alike understand. To simplify these things if you will, that’s the goal, but anyways addressing onions points:

sovs-

Do you really think 6 tanks can kill a yuris base in a minute? I hate revealing how to play yuri better but all top yuris(if any are left) have 5-15 Gatling bunkers in there base when they know it’s going to be a long grinding game. A good technique for sure but definitely not the win-all. I’ve seen some yuris wall their units to protect from drones... and don’t forget they get all of their money back when they grind their units. So you have to use drones defensively or take advantage of the quick+1 you get before it becomes -1. Also you don’t mention seige choppers which I think are vital against yuri? What are your thoughts on those? I’ll leave it at this for now.

allied-

If I remember correctly 1gat>ggi ifv? Regardless, ggi ifvs are a strong unit but not so sure that I would opt for 2ggi ifvs over a harrier(difference of 400 dollars). I think grizzlies and a harrier are needed more to defend and 2 gi ifvs can be used to attack slaves early if you go that route. The problem isn’t beating yuri when you are teched, it’s getting teched as allies with a strong economy that is the problem. Yuri has the deadly “wave tactics “ and while I forget the exact teams/timing it goes something like this... 

1st wave: 2gats,3lashers,brute,mag

2ndwave:+MM and/or disc 

3rdwave:+2discs(that split)[the goal for yuri is to have the third wave before you can get a bf as usually the allied player is broke if surviving wave2 etc...)

im not sure ggi ifvs fire in mid air and if not are easy kills for mag+Gat. But usually by the third wave ur done, these wave tactics do not include rushes etc.. but back on topic. Mass prisms own all of yuri army except discs, and when I say mass I mean 7+ anything less than 5 prisms is a waste unless u have the yuri on the ropes and you are attacking his structures. You need mirage tanks to counter master minds, and harriers are more fundamentally sound to counter mags.My question is what type of BO would you use to tech fast against an aggressive yuri player and feel comfortable to mass prism tanks? 

Edited by a1nthony

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Before you mass prism, you have to have mirage and ggi ifvs in place to support you till your able to get enough for the final attack. 7-8 mirage with 5-6 ggi ifvs and a couple harriers picking off and mags or stray units, then you spam the prisms 

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On 12/23/2018 at 10:25 PM, a1nthony said:

OniOn has some good points/strategies So lets go Into depth on them this post I directed towards onion or anyone else who is knowledgeable, I mean no disrespect as my posts are a means to spark conversations to make noobs and high level players alike understand. To simplify these things if you will, that’s the goal, but anyways addressing onions points:

sovs-

Do you really think 6 tanks can kill a yuris base in a minute? I hate revealing how to play yuri better but all top yuris(if any are left) have 5-15 Gatling bunkers in there base when they know it’s going to be a long grinding game. A good technique for sure but definitely not the win-all. I’ve seen some yuris wall their units to protect from drones... and don’t forget they get all of their money back when they grind their units. So you have to use drones defensively or take advantage of the quick+1 you get before it becomes -1. Also you don’t mention seige choppers which I think are vital against yuri? What are your thoughts on those? I’ll leave it at this for now.

allied-

If I remember correctly 1gat>ggi ifv? Regardless, ggi ifvs are a strong unit but not so sure that I would opt for 2ggi ifvs over a harrier(difference of 400 dollars). I think grizzlies and a harrier are needed more to defend and 2 gi ifvs can be used to attack slaves early if you go that route. The problem isn’t beating yuri when you are teched, it’s getting teched as allies with a strong economy that is the problem. Yuri has the deadly “wave tactics “ and while I forget the exact teams/timing it goes something like this... 

1st wave: 2gats,3lashers,brute,mag

2ndwave:+MM and/or disc 

3rdwave:+2discs(that split)[the goal for yuri is to have the third wave before you can get a bf as usually the allied player is broke if surviving wave2 etc...)

im not sure ggi ifvs fire in mid air and if not are easy kills for mag+Gat. But usually by the third wave ur done, these wave tactics do not include rushes etc.. but back on topic. Mass prisms own all of yuri army except discs, and when I say mass I mean 7+ anything less than 5 prisms is a waste unless u have the yuri on the ropes and you are attacking his structures. You need mirage tanks to counter master minds, and harriers are more fundamentally sound to counter mags.My question is what type of BO would you use to tech fast against an aggressive yuri player and feel comfortable to mass prism tanks? 

 

Don't worry, I will demonstrate when we play =-]

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