Opinions Wanted on competitive 1v1 Yuri Maps

[XXxPrePxX]

Edit: On the topic of Loaded Barrel I forgot to mention the late game dynamics. One of the reason why initiates in garrisions is so important here is that it leads to late game scenarios. On this map there is NO regenerating ore in your home spot. What this means is that yuri can defend in his turtled base, pick off your miners with garrisionable structures, magnetrons on bridges/cliff, ufos, as your miners HAVE to venture out into the map somehow. Meanwhile, yuri can be using the genetic mutator to mutate slaves into brutes, or alternatively, what I used to do on WOL QM on Loaded barrell --> Use para + cloning vats to turn initiates into brutes and have unlimited money. So, Yuri gets unlimited money by just sitting in his turtled base. You have to reach out into the middle of the map likely through a land mine of garrisioned structures to get any income. Of course, any smart yuri player will use the dominator on your home oils or just kill them with a series of UFOS. The dominator can't be blocked by a force field, so well, you are screwed on this map. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by XXxPrePxX

[KinKys3x]

 

see this where you lack the abilities to think outside the box. 

1st  loaded barrel  allies and sovs can garrison more buildings and can send dogs to eat engis and initiates going for buildings  ....

 

late game soviets have choppers. probably hands down the most effective unit vs yuri.. deployed choppers can kill any buildings    let alone some pathetic garrisoned ones..  also sovs have kirovs and v'3   

 

allieds have prism tanks  umm probably the most effective anti building weapon in the game...

 

 

all i see is you complaining about yuri,  which leads me to believe you have issues even playing vs yuri in the first place.   there is an answer for every unit it the game.  it comes down to control and utilization of the available units for your selected faction..   

 

[XXxPrePxX]

You have been very disingenuous in this discussion by not acknowledging your false assumptions. You've claimed that i'm a 'ra2 tank spammer', incapable of playing different styles, that one of my favorite maps is country swing, that I'm part of a pro group conspiracy to select certain maps, and that I am trying to select certain maps that benefit tank spam. All of these points are either (obviously) false or I have shown to be false in my comments, yet you do not acknowledge this in your replies -- you simply move on to the next attack. Discussing these matters with you is like discussing climate science with the climate change deniers as they present new bogus information one after another after their initial information gets refuted. Please have some respect and acknowledge your false assumptions or wrong information when further replying. 

You have not responded to my points on Hammer and sickle, LPOD, and New Heights, as well. 

Now, in response to your latest post about Loaded Barrell, your argument is far to simplified. Sure, Sovs/allies can garrison some buildings around their base as well, but that doesn't change the fact that the initiate garrisoned yuri base is still protected from any early attacks. Sure, prisms and siege choppers exist, but by the time they are actually useful, Yuri already has UFOS/Supers and an army, so you aren't simply going to be walking around the map killing those buildings. I don't know who has time to be plopping siege choppers down to kill garrisoned buildings when the yuri player has the genetic mutator grinding cloning vat initiates for unlimited money and a timer on the psychic dominator waiting to own your base. You've also mentioned to 'engi-kill' the yuri player, but that's also not plausible as there is enough early game money for any yuri player to escort his engi(s) to the derrick/airport. Also, with brutes available, it would be far easier for the yuri player to actually engi kill you sending a brute to each airport+2 oil corner. 

And then last, but not least, you make another failed assumption that "I have issues playing vs. yuri," and "there's an answer to every unit in the game." Sure, there's an answer, but if the answer is not plausible given the map scenarios, then you are out of luck. I have no issue playing vs. yuri unless it's on a map that is overly imbalanced. Loaded Barrel is a very bad map to play vs. Yuri on, same with New Heights. Just merely attacking a yuri base structure on Loaded Barrel means you've been successful as a soviet player there. I have played Loaded Barrel many times on YR WOL QM and it is a yuri haven map, the prototypical cloning vat-iniaties-mutator map where yuri ends up with unlimited money quite readily and the soviet/allied player ends up with nowhere to go. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by XXxPrePxX

[KinKys3x]

Actually i did respond.   look on page 1 where i asked you to play me on these maps.  

lets prove it on the battlefield

 

[KinKys3x]

i mean surely your 16+ years of experience will trump my incompetence. right?
 

 

[XXxPrePxX]

That's an incredibly poor debating tactic, considering that it would result in extremely bad statistics leading to a result either way. A small sample size, varying parameters (I have not played as yuri competitively in over 10+ years). You also continued your disingenuous ways, so I do not wish to proceed having a conversation with you. 

[XXxPrePxX]

On 10/26/2017 at 5:21 PM, PrezSpammer said:

I figured for QM to be kept in proper running order, there should be surveys in place as well as extensive series of test matches when it comes to bringing maps in and out of rotation and for determining which faction matchups are most appropriate. A significant number of those maps were mainly listed to be candidates for future consideration while several others are perfect shoe-ins. Things got very stale on XWIS with the same limited variety of QM maps in place all the time and changes being so few and far between not to mention frequent faction mismatches. Whichever maps gain approval during the testing phase (perhaps set some sort of minimum like 55% or higher), their test scores are then given out on a ballot for us to vote on. In addition, give out random surveys after every few matches asking if players approve of that particular map being in QM rotation.

@PrezSpammer Did you feel XWIS QM got boring for you due to the same map listings over and over?  There were a few renovations on XWIS QM. One that saw us add a TON of maps into QM, another that trimmed it down closer to 30. Do you like the way CNCNet has it planned where the map pool will be something like 12-25 maps, but some/many of them will rotate on a month by month basis? The cool thing about CNCNet is that we have so many abilities with the addition of user-created maps and the amazing array of maps created in the past 6 or so years from Ra2.

[PrezSpammer]

Like probably so many others on XWIS, I found it rather monotonous and felt regretful about not being able to play so many great maps that fit in perfectly. As a result, aside from maybe Double Trouble, El Dorado, LBL and Little Piece of Dune, hosts refrained from selecting these unused maps in FFGs and were unnecessarily obscured and largely forgotten about. So many QM regulars had each and every map down to a science and gave us amateur players no real chance; those problems along with some others likely had a lingering negative impact on participation. Until we get updates on maps being tested for QM, which maps are being brought in, which are being bounced out, etc., the main thing I wanna see changed first is in regards to game options. I apologize for taking this a little off-topic but feel that this is the only thread at this point for such a suggestion.

Prior to every single match, the following four options should have a 50/50 chance of being enabled:

Destroyable Bridges

Superweapons: To punish players who constantly attempt to fast-tech

No Dog Engi Eat: Forces players to rely on other tactics to secure tech buildings instead of relying on dog luck

Multi-Engineer: Curtail engi-rushes which plagued QM on XWIS; two exceptions are that it's always enabled when NDEE is enabled and in all YvY matches

Edited October 29, 2017 by PrezSpammer

[XXxPrePxX]

Ahh, that makes much more sense. Thank you for clarifying. So you are stating that due to the obtuse amount of maps the pros had an insane advantage and the new players just couldn't learn fast enough especially since activity did not permit it. That makes perfect sense. The good news is that CNCNet plans to have a much more limited map pool, so this issue should be solved. However, it will continue to be fresh as we rotate certain maps monthly. 

As far as the game settings go, I agree with random superweapons -- that's a beautiful thing. I disagree with destroyable bridges, not really sure why you want that random. It would be quite annoying to try to destroy a bridge only for it not to destroy. I guess I can understand it on a map like Hammer and Sickle where someone is trying to camp spot 1, but I feel that having destroyable bridges as random would really punish a player unfairly. I think it would be better to have them ON/OFF and make it known. 

As far as No Dog Engi Eat and the Multi-Engi, both options are highly interesting but would be a drastic change to the community. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, other than I don't think it should be random. Once again -- it would be really frustrating trying to guess whether it was on/off and whether I needed to protect my engis or not, etc. I think it's a good discussion to have once things get more up and running whether the community wants to see these ON/OFF, however, my gut feeling is that the community does not want these on as it would drift too far away from traditional gameplay and limit users.