ReaperAA

Instead of being a jerk, you could have tried to explain how rhino speed Apocs wouldn't be OP. I'll give credit to xe3. At least they explained how to counter them and I actually understood the strategy very well. Also when I stated earlier that Apocs are the most cost efficient units, I was talking about units that don't use kiting to fight them (which xe3 stated that mirage+rocketeer can beat them head on). Of course Apocs would get countered by anything that can kite them, because speed is meant to be their weakness. And again, i didn't say that Apoc don't need buffing, I only stated that they shouldn't be made as fast as rhinos. A speed increase from 4 to 5 is reasonable.

I am pretty sure that it is there. But then again I haven't checked the RA2's rules.ini in a long time. Lets assume that you are right. It still means that Rhinos and Grizzlies have same build multiplier (1.0 as you say). That is much more fair than the 1.3 of Rhinos vs 1.5 of Grizzlies in YR. For once I somewhat agree with you. RA2 is overall better than YR in terms of balance.

And do you realize that BuildTimeMultiplier=1.3 is faster than 1.5 right? In vanilla RA2, both grizzlies and rhinos had 1.3, but it got changed to 1.5 for YR grizzlies.

Even with the purifier it won't be enough to deal with rhino speed Apocs. Also i am not going to argue with you anymore since all you have to call me is a noob. You're just a pro player and your opinion is definitely "above mine".

Or make dogs more durable because nerfing GIs for the dogs would mean that Yuri's Initiates would need nerfing too.

You're right that Allies don't make Grizzlies in late game. That's because grizzlies are just not very good, which I think is bit of a shame because I think early game units shouldn't just become obsolete when players are at higher tech level. And speaking of Apocs, speed is supposed to be their weakness. They are already the most cost-effective tanks in a head-on battle that giving them Rhino's speed would make them absurdly OP. Couple that with the industrial plant and you will have a single unit that would be cost-effective against pretty much anything an Allied player can throw at them.

The fire range is understandable, but rhino speed? That would make Rhinos obsolete. A speed increase of Apocs from 4 to 5 would be more reasonable (for comparison, Rhinos have speed = 6). Because Grizzly is 200$ cheaper? Though I do think that you are right about the power advantage. So I think the cost should be set back to 800, but production speed increased to make the Allied PP build as fast as the Soviet counterpart. No it isn't. Rhino has same production speed in both RA2 and YR.

Thanks for the discord invite :) Apart from the prism tank buff, I see nothing close to super-OP changes in Allies. Also Soviets got many buffs changes too, so I see not much issue here.

Nice. I just returned to the forums after many months after seeing the news. I look forward to try this patch (once I deal with some real life stuff) One small oddity/issue I noticed is "Robot Tank: HP Increased from 600 to 620". I think this is the robot control centre's health, not robot tank's. Because as far as I know, original YR robot tanks only have 180 health. Even Rhino tanks only have 400 health. Apart from the oddity, I also have some balance suggestions. Make Grizzlies (and by extension Lashers too) build faster, like the Grizzlies did in vanilla RA2 and also increase their range from 5 to 5.5 (thus giving Grizzlies/Lashers a bit better fighting chance against Rhinos) Robot Tanks can likewise have their weapon range increased from 5 to 5.5 and health slightly increased (from 180 to 200) Make initiates do less damage when garrisoned and bring them close to garrisoned GI's damage (like it was in Ravage's YR balance patch). Make infantry garrisoned in Yuri's bio reactor give 75 power instead of 100. Right now, one fully garrisoned bio reactor can pretty much sustain an entire base up to the battle lab + one super weapon. Reduce Slave Miner's health from 2000 to 1500. Right now, they are way too good as meat shields. Reduce Gattling Tank's health from 210 to 200. This would make Black Eagles more useful against Yuri as they would 1-shot gattlings just as they can 1-shot IFVs and Flak Tracks. While the changes to Tank Destroyers are nice, I suggest that they still need even more improvements to be better. I suggest to make them (non-elite and elite both) 1-shot terror drones and also increase the range to 6.25 instead of just 5.75, because I think they would still struggle against Rhinos at that range due to the fact that they have no rotating turrets. Increase the delay of magnetrons changing targets for lifting. This is to nerf the infamous gattling+mag combo of Yuri which is ridiculously hard for Soviets to deal with without superweapons. Bring Genetic mutator's health to the same level as Chronosphere/Iron Curtain. Make elite Chrono Legionnaires be able to shoot through walls just like non-elite can. Decrease Grand Cannon's maximum range from 15 to 13. I may post more suggestions once I start trying this out.

Try these steps: Make sure that no other app is open and useless background processes are also closed. If you are using a super high resolution, try lowering it. I have a 1080p monitor but I run the game at 1600x900 resolution. Too high resolution can cause glitches on very small maps. Try using different renderers and see which renderer gives best performance. I personally use DDrawCompat on windows 10 PC but your mileage may vary. To benchmark, I recommend launching a skirmish with you as spectator and multiple hard/mental AIs fighting each other.

As Allies, Battle Fortresses filled with 4 GGIs + 1 Seal (or Sniper if playing as Britain) will beat them. As Yuri, Masterminds and Floating Discs should probably beat them. Discs (with good micro) can kill Desos while avoiding most Apoc's AA fire. Then Masterminds will claim the Apocs as their own.

I understand what you are trying to convey. Soviets have better early game (because of Rhinos being simply better per cost compared to Grizzlies) and to balance it, Allies have better late game (due to BFs and Mirages being more useful than Apocs). But that, in my opinion, is actually a big problem with the balance. This means that on small (1 vs 1) map, Soviets are better as games usually are decided before things go to late game. While Allies are better on very large maps. In a very well balanced game (like in say Starcraft), all factions are roughly even in power at all stages of the game.

I humbly disagree. Tank Destroyers are extremely clunky and they are not really that good at their "Anti-Tank" role either (they can barely beat Rhino Tanks in a head-on battle). Also once Battle Fortresses are available, they become obsolete. Because pretty much anything TDs can do, GGI Battle Fortresses can do better. Bryan Vahey highlighted the problem with TDs in this video

I haven't tested yet but I am really liking most of the changes so far.

Really? Can you provide the dl links to both your's and MustacheX's ini files. I would like to see them. Also I hope that they make weaker countries (like Germany, Russia etc.) better as well. You are right. One needs to understand the meta to create a good balance patch. Which is why i have no intention to post my patch anytime soon. I am understanding the game by watching games of pros and playing online myself (I am nowhere near pro but I have definitely improved my game through watching pro games.)

First of all, I thank you for replying to my threads McPwny. You are pretty much the only person who has replied to them so far ? The reason I am making these threads is because I am working on a private balance patch (that I may share on the forums depending on my mood). Now getting back to topic. Really? I always thought that they are useless and flak track are better in almost every way. I was considering a cost reduction (from 300 to 200) or a range+damage increase for their Anti Air weapon. I thought of pretty much the same thing. I was considering buffing their range from 3 to 4.75 or 5. Wow, I didn't knew Ivans are also used. Yeah I was considering a cost decrease from 600 to 500 and also a cost+power decrease for the robot control center. I have a buff list for this unit. The buffs include range increase from 5 to 6.5, damage increase from 150 to 175 and warhead changed so that it can 1-shot Terror Drones and do far more damage to miners. I am out of good ideas on how to buff this unit but I thought about damage/hp increase for them. On second thought, maybe you are right. While they aren't used in 1 vs 1 situation, they can be useful in a team game (*cough* chronoshifted + iron curtained Demo Trucks *cough*)

The units in question are: Flak Troopers Tesla Troopers (other than from charging Tesla Coils) Crazy Ivans Robot Tanks Tank Destroyers Tesla Tanks Terrorists Demolition Trucks If any these units are underpowered, then what would be your suggestion to buff them.

Ask yourself, why do most players in 1 vs 1 match play as Soviets?

Hello @RaVaGe, I noticed a slight discrepancy between what is stated (in both the thread and in the ini file) vs the actual percentage values about the Gatling warhead in "Yuri Rebalance Patch.ini". Statement in question: Set Gattling weapons damage against light armoured vehicles back to default as the 5% reduction made Mirage and Prism tank too difficult to combat in the late game. (v1.31) Actual warhead percentage values in the patch: Verses=80%, 65%, 55%, 90%, 30%, 5%, 10%, 5%, 3%, 125%, 50% Versus warhead percentage values originally (as stated in rulemd.ini/spawner.xdp): Verses=100%, 80%, 70%, 50%, 30%, 10%, 10%, 5%, 3%, 200%, 50% The percentage values imply that gattling weapons are not doing same/default damage to light armoured vehicles as in vanilla. They imply nearly twice as much damage to light armoured vehicles now (90% vs 50%). EDIT: Another small issue I noticed is that there is no "Soylent=800" updating for Chaos Drone. Which means that we can make a Chaos Drone for 800$ and sell/grind it for 1000$ = 200$ profit !!!???

This is true. Rhinos would still beat Grizzlies in larger numbers. However now Grizzlies would at least have a fair game against Rhinos in small amounts. Maybe, but then Rhinos (just like Apocs) would get utterly wrecked by late game Allied units (Battle Fortress, mirage tanks etc.). So I think their speed should stay the same. They are already very slightly slower than Grizzles right now. LOL this made my day. This is one of the main reasons why I am slightly hesitating in making threads like these.

Is Rhino vs Grizzly (or Lasher) situation balanced? If not, then how would you balance this. I personally think that Rhino tanks pretty much outclass Grizzlies(and lashers for that matter) mostly due to their range advantage (5 vs 5.75) and also due to damage advantage per cost (65 damage per shot for 700 cost of Grizzly vs 90 damage per shot for 900 cost of Rhino). And I think this is one of the 2 main reasons why Soviets beat Allies in most pro vs pro games. My personal balance/tweak idea would be to increase the range of Grizzlies/Lashers to match that of Rhinos (from 5 to 5.75) and also increase the damage per shot from 65 to 70.

This is a nice idea. In fact this was one of the things in my mind as well along with a very slight range increase (from 5.75 to 6)

Or maybe @FunkyFr3sh and @Rampastring can coordinate to have the glitch fixes/ anti-cheat features implemented in the DTA client. I am not sure how all this is done for RA2, but I am sure that with enough dedication, the same can be done with TS. RIght now, I use Rampa's client for SP and Funky's client for MP. It would be awesome to have one client for both SP and MP.

Apocalypse Tanks are very powerful in head-to-head combat. Infact, they are probably the most cost efficient among all conventional tanks in the game. However, they are seldom used in competitive MP mostly because they lack the versatility/speed/spamming potential of Rhino Tanks. So my question is: What changes would you do to them that would make them more useful in MP (without making them OP).

Apologies for the bump but I too would love to see CNCNET version of TS to use Rampastring's DTA Client. I am really surprised this change hasn't happened yet, considering that RA2 already uses the DTA Client.