Map deletion?

[Ultris07]

So, I've been building a new map, and I haven't had any issues with Temperate or Snow, and have only worked with Desert outside of those two types.

Well upon building my desert map, it will randomly delete itself.

Is this a coding bug?

Again, Snow and Temperate work fine, but Desert deletes the data for maps saved.

 

If this is a known issue, I am sorry for reposting.

[Allen262]

Not a bug that I know off. Sould odd. Is RAED saying "Saved." in the okay box?

[Ultris07]

Not a bug that I know off. Sould odd. Is RAED saying "Saved." in the okay box?

Nope, after a certain period of time the file frags itself, and all data just vanishes.

I should note that I was using RA-ED, for it's nice features.

But when I go to save, it will say Error, and when I try to reload, it just shows a blank map, and basically reads that the file could not be found because there is no information regarding that particular file.

So I generally just go and delete the file.

[Allen262]

I know that RAED dose like to kick "Error." after map has been open for a long time. Any time RAED shows "Error." when you try to save. Go to File and Save as and save the map with a new file name. Make sure it now says "Saved." in the okay box. If it dose go into your RA folder and find the old map and delete it. If you open the old map with notepad or wordpad it will be blank.

 

Also if RAED shows "Error." when you try to save. Click on the "T" by the mini-map. This will open the map as text. You can copy all of the text by using Ctrl+A to select all text than use Ctrl+C to copy the text on to the PCs clip board. You than paste the text into notepad or wordpad. Close RAED and Restat. With RAED Click on the "T" by the mini-map.

 

With RAEDs text edit window open delet all text than use Ctrl+V to paste the text you copied.

[Ultris07]

I know that RAED dose like to kick "Error." after map has been open for a long time. Any time RAED shows "Error." when you try to save. Go to File and Save as and save the map with a new file name. Make sure it now says "Saved." in the okay box. If it dose go into your RA folder and find the old map and delete it. If you open the old map with notepad or wordpad it will be blank.

 

Also if RAED shows "Error." when you try to save. Click on the "T" by the mini-map. This will open the map as text. You can copy all of the text by using Ctrl+A to select all text than use Ctrl+C to copy the text on to the PCs clip board. You than paste the text into notepad or wordpad. Close RAED and Restat. With RAED Click on the "T" by the mini-map.

 

With RAEDs text edit window open delet all text than use Ctrl+V to paste the text you copied.

That's a weird and oddly specific error, as well as abuse system...

Have they ever thought about fixing it?

Also the Error seems to happen at random, but often after having been open for a long time.

[Allen262]

That error has been around since before CnC Net and was fround in the vary first RAED. I remember this error back to 1999/2000 when I first started modding. Also the person that made RAED is unknown to me and probly hasn't been around since 1999/2000 as well. The CnC Net version of RAED has been hack/reverse engineered to add Desert, Jungle and Winter.

[Ultris07]

That error has been around since before CnC Net and was fround in the vary first RAED. I remember this error back to 1999/2000 when I first started modding. Also the person that made RAED is unknown to me and probly hasn't been around since 1999/2000 as well. The CnC Net version of RAED has been hack/reverse engineered to add Desert, Jungle and Winter.

Ah ok, so that means most of the other templates should be fine running, but the other 4 might have problems.

See this is why games should come with map editors built into them...

People want to build this stuff, and share their creations, and games are better for them.

Instead, we have to resort to external programs, which is very annoying.

[Allen262]

The error also effects the stock Temperate, Interior and Snow and also happened before the CnCNet team hack RAED to add Desert, Jungle and Winter.

 

Red Alert 1 has built in map editor. Red Alert Terrain Editor (EdWin.exe) but right now I think it only supports Temperate and Snow as no one has gotten around to hacking it in detail. I know Funky did some hacking on it and may have a version that supports Desert, Jungle or Winter.

[Ultris07]

The error also effects the stock Temperate, Interior and Snow and also happened before the CnCNet team hack RAED to add Desert, Jungle and Winter.

 

Red Alert 1 has built in map editor. Red Alert Terrain Editor (EdWin.exe) but right now I think it only supports Temperate and Snow as no one has gotten around to hacking it in detail. I know Funky did some hacking on it and may have a version that supports Desert, Jungle or Winter.

Interesting, but I think I'll stick with RAED for now since it's easier for me to find things, and will probably use EDwin in the future.

EDwin also has a limited selection of objects to choose from.

I tried messing with it before, but it has quite the lack of objects, which include buildings, that are going to be in my map.

[Allen262]

EdWin is basic as it was made to be basic. My understanig is tha EdWin at one time was used by WW to make full mission but they striped a lot of things out. RAED can do everything that EdWin can and more.

 

Also depending in what version of Edwin you have you may be able to open Desert, Jungle and Winter maps. If you can't get the update here. http://forums.cncnz.com/topic/19124-edwin-map-editor-patches-high-resolution-patch-and-more/ The EdWin looks bugged with Barren and both Caves

[Ultris07]

Well, I doubt I'll use EDwin anyway, with the lack of templates and objects.

But thanks for clearing up my problem with RAED.

[FunkyFr3sh]

The bug is old, I had it a couple times too. It happens with all theaters, not only desert

 

You can do what allen said, use the "T" button incase your map didn't save (check if the file is there and make sure the size is not 0 bytes)

[Ultris07]

The bug is old, I had it a couple times too. It happens with all theaters, not only desert

 

You can do what allen said, use the "T" button incase your map didn't save (check if the file is there and make sure the size is not 0 bytes)

Every time that happens it's 0 bytes, I have warned my friends about this error, and have told them the operating time is weird, but you should be able to edit for about 3 hours with no problem.

I have only experienced the error after 3 hours.

[Ultris07]

Ok so I did exactly what you had said to do, with the copy and paste text thing, as well as save as a new file.

And now the game refuses to load the map giving me the Spawn.exe has stopped working.

 

Please ignore this message, I have found the issue to my map and have rectified it.

[Nyerguds]

Yeah, sadly RAED is anonymous. A couple of people (including me) have hacked into it to fix bugs and add missing features, but the core code isn't too easy to make sense of through exe disassembling.

[Ultris07]

Yeah, sadly RAED is anonymous. A couple of people (including me) have hacked into it to fix bugs and add missing features, but the core code isn't too easy to make sense of through exe disassembling.

Does it do the code all at once when disassembling?

If so, I would suggest trying it one line of code at a time if possible.

One issue I can think of is that since RAED come out, early 2000's late 90's, is that the person had difficulty deciphering the code for EDwin.

This is probably the most likely case.

The only thing I can suggest to hopefully fix any of these problems is to rewrite the code entirely from scratch separately and work from there to find the issues.

[FunkyFr3sh]

If you find a way to reproduce it then I could take a look into it. I don't think it has anything to do with long runtime, something triggers it, but it's something people are not doing often

[Ultris07]

If you find a way to reproduce it then I could take a look into it. I don't think it has anything to do with long runtime, something triggers it, but it's something people are not doing often

What if the Error is caused by too many items on the map?

I do not know if that is the case, but it might be that when you go over the limit of objects the editor errors the map, basically stating that it is unplayable due to the amount of objects on the map.

I will attempt to figure it out, if that isn't the case however, we'll have to think of a different idea.

(Side note when I copied the map, "Save as", it worked fine but would not play due to the amount of objects.)

I have found that going over the limit does not Error the map save.

I have also found that the game works using 500 of the same object.

I have used S03 501 times, and I can still spawn into Skirmish.

If the game is counting each object separately and not as one entity, then I have found that 500 is not the maximum amount of objects on a map you can have at any given time.

I will attempt more ideas later, it is quite late where I live.

[Allen262]

To me the save "Error." has to do with time that the map is open and amount of all things in the map/single player missions.

[Ultris07]

To me the save "Error." has to do with time that the map is open and amount of all things in the map/single player missions.

Interesting, I'll try different objects soon.

I'm going to see how many of the same object can be placed on a map before spawn.exe stops working.

And if I am correct in my assumption, 500 is not the limit.

Objects might be counted as separate entities, unless using the same object over and over again.

No proof to back this up though yet, unfortunately.

[Allen262]

Maximums object from the rules.ini

 

; ******* Object Heap Maximums *******

; These are the absolute maximum number of these object types

; allowed in the game (at any one time).

[Maximums]

Players=8 ; ipx layer limits this to 8 maximum

Aircraft=100

Anim=100

Building=500

Bullet=50

Factory=32              ; 32 is minimum for 8 player game

Infantry=500

Overlay=1              ; special case -- only needs one

Projectile=20          ; projectile types, not actual projectiles

Smudge=1                ; special case -- only needs one

Team=60

TeamType=60

Template=1              ; special case -- only needs one

Terrain=500            ; trees and rocks

TrigType=80            ; trigger types

Trigger=200            ; triggers themselves

Unit=500

Vessel=100

Warhead=10              ; warhead types, not actual warheads

Weapon=55              ; weapon types, not actual weapons

[Nyerguds]

Yeah, sadly RAED is anonymous. A couple of people (including me) have hacked into it to fix bugs and add missing features, but the core code isn't too easy to make sense of through exe disassembling.

Does it do the code all at once when disassembling?

If so, I would suggest trying it one line of code at a time if possible.

Disassembling doesn't give "lines of code". It gives CPU instructions, one per line, which are tons more simple than "lines of code". And "simple" is not an advantage there; it means you have to read several pages of them before you can even start making sense of what the logics you're looking at actually do. Especially since quite a bunch of them are memory/stack management which doesn't even show up in the actual code of higher level programming languages. Oh, and "CPU instructions" also immediately implies nothing in this whole stuff has any readable names attached to it. the only identifiable text is raw text it uses in the code (like how the ini reading stuff uses the key and section names used in the RA map files), but that only helps to identify the actual functions using that text.

 

To give an example... the function call to create one unit type in C&C1, which would technically be one "line" of code, is about a page of asm instructions  :yo:

[Ultris07]

Maximums object from the rules.ini

 

; ******* Object Heap Maximums *******

; These are the absolute maximum number of these object types

; allowed in the game (at any one time).

[Maximums]

Players=8 ; ipx layer limits this to 8 maximum

Aircraft=100

Anim=100

Building=500

Bullet=50

Factory=32              ; 32 is minimum for 8 player game

Infantry=500

Overlay=1              ; special case -- only needs one

Projectile=20          ; projectile types, not actual projectiles

Smudge=1                ; special case -- only needs one

Team=60

TeamType=60

Template=1              ; special case -- only needs one

Terrain=500            ; trees and rocks

TrigType=80            ; trigger types

Trigger=200            ; triggers themselves

Unit=500

Vessel=100

Warhead=10              ; warhead types, not actual warheads

Weapon=55              ; weapon types, not actual weapons

Even after stating all this, how would a map composed almost entirely of Templates Spawn Crash?

If it is stated "Templates=1" and that's a special case then wouldn't someone be able to use as many Templates as they wanted considering it denotes all Templates used to 1 per Template piece used?

If that's the case then it means that each individual Template piece has a limit amount.

 

P.S. I am not very knowledgeable on many of these things but I try to learn through talking to people. So yes, I will probably sound like a huge idiot 90% of the time.

[Allen262]

Template is for the map Theater. There is no max number of Template tilesets that make up ground, cliffs, water, .ect. The max Template tilesets is done my the max map size that the game can support and that is 126x126

 

I'm no expert but my guess is that the Terrain=500 is used to set a max cap for everything in Terrain (tress) Smudge (craters and scorch marks) and Overlays (Ore, Walls, .etc).

 

I could br wrong and that Smudge and Overlays could have no cap but I think it would as every other thing has a max cap.

[Ultris07]

Template is for the map Theater. There is no max number of Template tilesets that make up ground, cliffs, water, .ect. The max Template tilesets is done my the max map size that the game can support and that is 126x126

 

I'm no expert but my guess is that the Terrain=500 is used to set a max cap for everything in Terrain (tress) Smudge (craters and scorch marks) and Overlays (Ore, Walls, .etc).

 

I could br wrong and that Smudge and Overlays could have no cap but I think it would as every other thing has a max cap.

That is odd because I actually had to delete some of the Template pieces I had placed because it kept Spawn.exe'ing me every time I did Skirmish.

Once I removed the Template pieces I was able to play on the map.

So my guess is that, it is not stated in the Rules.ini, but there is actually a limit to what can be placed.

If it does do it by the "126 x 126", then I should have been just fine.

126x126=15876

I should be nowhere near that number, so I think it goes by the smallest map value if it does count, which is "64 x 64"

64x64=4096

Again I should be close, but not surpassing that number at least.