Guard towers are ridiculous weak

[X3M]

I noticed that even a wall of 5 guard towers can not stop a swarm of buggies.

I focussed fire. But am sure that those guard towers did not.

After this. I only lost 1/3th of them. Some where lightly or heavely damaged. 

So? 

Is there any way to defend these poor guard towers in the early game?

[cn2mc]

Not firing on the buggy you targeted probably means it went out of range and the tower forgot it. Don't place towers in such a way so that they can be easily swarmed, back them up with men, and you'll find they're actually not bad vs. light vehicles. 

[X3M]

Funny how you twist the words as if I was the one placing the towers.

 

I am the buggy man in this.

[AchromicWhite]

Basically all of the defences are weak if it's JUST the towers... but 5 does seem like a lot, I guess.

I usually place 1-2 in a key location during a rush, but I'm making units, too.

[cn2mc]

Sorry if it came out as word-twisting. I did not necessarily mean you as a person, it's just a (legitimate) manner of expression. 

Also, if anything, you yourself did not in any way specify you were the Nod player in your initial post. The sentence 'I focussed fire. But am sure that those guard towers did not. After this. I only lost 1/3th of them. Some where lightly or heavely damaged' does not clear things up either. 

[AchromicWhite]

Basically, the guard tower has the apache gun (or 1/2 apache gun, as the apache fires twice), which is pretty strong.

It only has 200 HP (400 actual, as building HP is doubled). Same as power plants, weapons factories etc... Interestingly so do BOTH of the Nod defences (turret/Obs) but of course, the turret has heavy armour, so you really need AP to take it out.
Thing is, the GT easily has the shortest range of all of them, while rockets (from bikes/bazooka) and the light tank cannon all have the same range, if positioned correctly, they can out range the tower. (My point is that the range is short), compare that to the Nod Turret which has a longer range than ever the Med tank cannon... and of course the adv tower ranges are more like artillery.

That range counts for a LOT. Range is totally underestimated for it's use in RTS, and it'll play a lot into it given that it's static.

[X3M]

Range, First shot effect, Space saving factor (or size of units) are all closely linked together.
The range factor for games where fog of war is applied. Is related to the health/damage ratio that is set as average. If it is 3, every 1 range is +33% costs on the weapon. If it is 5, every 1 range is only +20% costs on the weapon. The same is applied to speed.
Open games have this 50% or 100% higher. But I have less experience with that. Might be cool though if I learn that magic number.

Guess what, knowing this armor and AP combination. Before reading your post. I went mass buggies on someone with turrets.
While receiving slightly more damage and facing enemy buggies. I easily managed to get rid of those turrets as well.
The only combat difference this time was that the turrets where more spread out and not in a nice tight wall. I had to deal with 2 or 3 at a time.

The most stopping factor in that game so far where those flamers popping out the barracks.

Edited May 18, 2018 by X3M

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah... buggies are insane, lol. They can often beat their counters.

[X3M]

In theory, 4 buggies should be able to beat one medium tank.
In theory that is. I don't know if damage is rounded, up, down or normally.

Now that I am checking the ini, the M60 is a M16, both 15 damage, but with a 50% higher ROF and +2 range.
It is 25% damage on heavy armor. That is 3,75. So, is it 3,75 or 4 or 3?

Big difference!

If rounded downwards, you need 5 buggies.

[cn2mc]

In practice though you kind of have two tanks by the time they come. And men.

[AchromicWhite]

11 hours ago, X3M said:

In theory, 4 buggies should be able to beat one medium tank.
In theory that is. I don't know if damage is rounded, up, down or normally.

Now that I am checking the ini, the M60 is a M16, both 15 damage, but with a 50% higher ROF and +2 range.
It is 25% damage on heavy armor. That is 3,75. So, is it 3,75 or 4 or 3?

Big difference!

If rounded downwards, you need 5 buggies.

Actually, the M16 has better RoF.

Rifle RoF = 20
Machine gun RoF= 30

 

5 hours ago, cn2mc said:

In practice though you kind of have two tanks by the time they come. And men.

Yeah, I think the better way to play vs a buggy rush is to NOT have the same amount of refineries. You should have 1-2 more during your opener, and then use extra barracks to produce quickly (spend the money that you saved). So long as you hold, you're then basically ahead. Well, that's how I play it, anyway.

[X3M]

Yes I know that the M16 has a better RoF. See how confusing it is when I say that it is 50% higher for the Machine gun. Lower is better.
I think that if I said cool down, it would have been less confusing. Or if I said 50% worse.

Higher is not better.