What are the optimal build orders for nod and GDI in your opinion?

[chem]

In general I know it changes specific to the map and person you play/what they are doing.

But generally speaking I think their are optimal build orders and they change also depending on whether its a high or low tiberium map?

I will list several of the top level pros and their build orders when I update this.

Also are all ins a novices game? (sell conyard) Can they be done well? Or are they a fools move?

Edited May 22, 2018 by chem

[cn2mc]

Build orders are only related to the strategy you choose to open up with, not with anything else. If you can stick to your strategy or your opponent manages to throw a wrench in it, that's another question. But generally, most of the 'big decisions' are usually made before you even get a decent scout in. So no. No such thing as an optimal BO. Space and amount of resources on the map will at most squeeze in an additional refinery in whatever you're doing. 

On your other question: some of the most devastating rushes are in fact 2fact or 2strip + sell CY. The trick is to hide you're doing it until you can just roll the enemy over even in a trade. The moment he sees the sell, he knows, even if he can't see the second factory or your entire army, so it's best pulled off if he hasn't scouted your CY.

[AchromicWhite]

Cn2 hits the nail on the head.
The only thing I'd add is that there could be optimal ways to construct your strategy.
Like, if I want to attack with a lot of troops at the start, but still want an economy, I'd look at something like:
PP, Bar, Bar, Ref, Ref...
or
PP, Ref, Bar, Bar, Ref...
Both could work, it's hard to say what's "optimal". The first is about getting the infantry on the field, the second looks to try and get some money flowing while the barracks is being set up, so that getting back into a normal game, after the attack, has been completed.
So stuff like that.

[chem]

9 minutes ago, AchromicWhite said:

Cn2 hits the nail on the head.
The only thing I'd add is that there could be optimal ways to construct your strategy.
Like, if I want to attack with a lot of troops at the start, but still want an economy, I'd look at something like:
PP, Bar, Bar, Ref, Ref...
or
PP, Ref, Bar, Bar, Ref...
Both could work, it's hard to say what's "optimal". The first is about getting the infantry on the field, the second looks to try and get some money flowing while the barracks is being set up, so that getting back into a normal game, after the attack, has been completed.
So stuff like that.

that's an awesome rush thanks White!!

[chem]

I have been watching a few of the top guys and they all seem to go 1 airfield or weapons factory,  they then go extra refineries and try to compensate the lack of tanks with infantry guard towers more expensive or higher tech units etc , ive tried it and it was on a money heavy map and it did not work for me as well as building the usual 2 airfields.

How do you know when its best to go 2 airfields early and when its best to go 1 airfield/wf, and instead build an extra refinery etc in place of the 2nd airstrip?  

To me units are so much more versatile for taking control of the map and being able to attack and defend on the fly that I rarely go 1 airfield builds. I find that id rather out compete their units with more tanks and control any part of the field that I want rather than just controlling a small part of the map with a base creep.

I only tend to do that kinda build on a map like circle where I am creeping down a tunnel towards their base and unit mobility is no longer a threat and turrets bazookas and a few tanks etc win the game

Is that because the maps I play (high money high mobility open) require a different style of play ? Where as lower tiberium maps or the original maps it seems wise to not spend the extra 2000 on an extra airfield usually.

Or do the 1 airfield builds (the 2nd one much later) do they work and are they better for high tiberium open maps too?  I noticed jacko used to go an obscene amount of refineries b4 his 2nd airstrip even on injustice , it made him seem so vulnerable had he been attacked before he got the 2nd airfield up , I noticed ferret likes to do the same a zillion refineries before the 2nd weapon's factory.  

Are they not vulnerable to a big mix of units attacking them before they can build enough turrets or troops or the 2nd airfield to stop the extra units you get in an earlier 2 airstrip build? (That's what happened to me having a load of med tanks from 2 war factories seemed superior to my turrets bikes from 1 airfield and bazooka men, I felt I would be better off with just more light tanks and bikes from a 2 airfield build)

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by chem

[chem]

some "super pro" builds ive seen

 

1) The 4-5 etc refinery build where they make loads of troops  and loads of refineries at the start  instead of going the usual airfield/ weapons factory build

2) The 2 refinery mixed build, where they go 2 refineries 1 airstrip, a base creep, turrets infantry more expensive units  like tanks instead of buggies and extra refineries

3) A flame troop heli rush for nod or perhaps a nader orca dominant build  for GDI, again 2 refinery start

4) A 3 refinery build in anticipation of the opponent going 2 refineries same as 2) with extra cash

 

 

These seem to me to be the always go to builds of the pros or super pros, regardless of who they face or what their opponent does, they seem to build this same way nearly every time and don't vary it much for a different map player or based on what they scout. It seems more like you decide what you will do before the game begins and then you do it, the builds don't seem very dynamic at all they seem like decisions made before the game even starts, they also seem non dynamic as the game progresses only minor adjustments based on what the opponent is doing?

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by chem

[chem]

4 hours ago, cn2mc said:

Build orders are only related to the strategy you choose to open up with, not with anything else. If you can stick to your strategy or your opponent manages to throw a wrench in it, that's another question. But generally, most of the 'big decisions' are usually made before you even get a decent scout in. So no. No such thing as an optimal BO. Space and amount of resources on the map will at most squeeze in an additional refinery in whatever you're doing. 

On your other question: some of the most devastating rushes are in fact 2fact or 2strip + sell CY. The trick is to hide you're doing it until you can just roll the enemy over even in a trade. The moment he sees the sell, he knows, even if he can't see the second factory or your entire army, so it's best pulled off if he hasn't scouted your CY.

awesome thanyou this is really helpful!!

Edited May 22, 2018 by chem