Allies vs GDI vs Nod vs Soviet Crossover!

[Eisengeist]

In spite of RA not liking ownership defined on a by country basis.  I managed to do some major juggling and made it work solidly.  And I made up a great mega map to do it justice.  RA seems to have no problem with land vehicles or any structure defined by country but doesn't like infantry, aircraft, or sea vessels defined by country.  So I mostly define those things by allies and/or soviet with prerequisites of buildings that are defined by country.  And it's a good idea to add hpad or afld as a prereq to each aircraft respectively.

 

On my CnC page here:

http://xo.cncguild.net/

 

If playing offline, remember to use RA1MPLauncher.exe to play skirmish with CNCNet's spawn1.mix loaded for the C&C1 gfx.

 

The teams:

France = Allies with faster Rate of Fire

Greece = Allies with better armor

England (GDI-Eng) = GDI with ships, GPS, Chronosphere, better Armor

Spain (GDI-Esp) = GDI with ships, Airfield, Iron Curtain, better FirePower

Germany (Über Nod)= Nod with subs, GPS, Chronosphere, better FP

Turkey (Noddoman Empire)= Nod with subs, Airfield, Iron Curtain, faster ROF

Russia = Soviet with lower cost

Ukraine = Soviet with faster Groundspeed

 

Things unique to specific teams:

Allies: Chrono Tank, Mobile Gap Generator (with grenades), AAGun

GDI: Advanced Guard Tower

Spain GDI only: A10 WartHog

Nod: Recon Bike, Fire Ant (Flame Tank), Stealth Tank

Soviet: Heavy Tank, Tesla Tank, Mad Tank, Anti-Personnel Mine Layer, Flame Tower

 

Differences from regular C&C1:TD and Red Alert 1:

 

No Ion Cannon so GDI has nuke.

 

Everyone has:

Cheaper Walls, Cheaper dogs that detect stealth,

Grenadier, Spy, cheaper better Thief,

faster Mechanic that should better reach aircrafts on pads/fields,

Gunboat, HeliCarrier, Demo Truck, single engineer capture

 

Allies,GDI,Nod all have:

Humm-vee with hit points and cost averaged between humm-vee and Nod buggy

Gap Generator

Anti-Tank Mine Layer

Fake structures

 

Spain GDI has A10 WartHog

Turkey Nod has MiG

 

Allies: cheaper faster Chronotank in some maps.

 

Allies & GDI: better medic, Tanya, Camo Pill-box like Guard Tower

 

Nod & Soviet: Commando (no Tanya), Shock Trooper with Chem Warrior Stats,

V2 like SSM, Tesla Coil like Obelisk, Fake Subpen

 

Since Nod's Flame Tank already looks like a bug, they decided to make it

look like a giant mechanical ant to strike more fear in its victims.

 

GDI gets to start with some light tanks and artilleries but can't build them.

Nod gets to start with some medium tanks but can't build them.

(In C&C1 GDI could start with 1 to 4 SSM launchers in multi but couldn't build them and in some videos it shows Nod having the medium M1 Abrams tank)

 

Refineries and Silos hold more.

Missile Silo is capturable.

Ore grows each minute instead of two minutes.

Copters come separate from helipad.

Lots of stuff requires a Tent or Barracks to gain the construction options.

Crate tweaks, Stealth crates enabled and unused gfx now used for some things..

Ore Trucks explode when destroyed, at least if loaded.

Helicopters do curley shuffle but otherwise have fast firing rate.

Some RA weapons weakened (Missile Sub, Cruiser, V2, Aircraft)  in most maps.

Wheeled vehicles move better % of full speed on all terrains.

and are faster than tracked on regular clear terrain.

Gunboats buildable at tech level 3 (chosen TL2) for all.

No Yak or Mobile Radar Jammer.

Badger Bomber changed to Cargo Plane.

Civilian/Technician Pistol can actually do damage now.

Some other RA values tweaked.

Harder AI set by RAEd.

 

Many stats averaged between C&C1:TD and RA1.  Cheaper costs usually chosen.

Values for some things set to that of Aftermath's mplayer.ini and some set

to resist its changes.

 

A few miscellaneous other units can be placed in maps...  Look through my rules.

Also all C&C1:TD values are there, in comments if not used.

 

All Name= lines commented out to avoid crash risk.  It's better to mod conquer.eng.

 

Red Alert does not like ownership defined by specific country so I had to make some

things require tent or barracks or just comform to what RA wanted to do anyway.

I had to give everyone grenadiers, had to give Soviets mechanic for Nod to have him, and had to split Tanya and Commando between the teams like I did.

               

Thanks to the following for ideas and info:

Nyerguds for putting original TD stuff in ini files

Creator of CCedit for dos C&C

Allen262 and his Red Dawn

Ferret and his Tiberium Alert

Iran, FunkyFresh, others for Portable RA and CnCNet

Olaf for RAEd

Creator of jungle theater.

[Eisengeist]

Figure I may as well post the map file and txt files directly to here as well.

 

EDIT: Just updated to v2.0

Also from updated rules, I also did some work on the map.  Ridges added so you can build and fight more strategically.  Islands added with buildings to capture.

xoironx2.mpr

[Eisengeist]

It is ready.  You can download it from my site, this thread, and I've been playing on CnCNet.

 

UPDATE EDIT:

Here's three different versions of the rules to paste into your own maps...

 

crossover.txt is the same as my level except:

Crusher=yes added to ant1(viceroid stats) and ant3 which don't appear in the map anyway

Set Iron Curtain to Tech Level 9 to match Chrono.

Set cost of MRLS to 800 (Argh, was left at Radar Jammer's 600) .

 

I'm leaving my ironxo.mpr as it is though.  Sometime if I have reason enough to update or fix it, I'll put in those changes and give it a slightly altered filename and title to avoid conflicts.  In the near future I will most likely upload a desert version with something like the following rules:

 

crossoveramal.txt is rules for another map soon to be released.  It slows most tanks down to what I think is closest to TD speed but leaves infantry at RA speed.  I averaged arty, harv, and mcv speed between the games.

 

crossovertd.txt puts practically all Tiberian Dawn's original values into effect, tries to match the speeds as close as possible, weakens or slows some RA stuff to match its balance.  Also it gives back Yaks back but changes them to Cargo Planes that only Soviets and Turkey Nod has.  They and Spain GDI all have a weakened MiG.  Cruiser has boatmissile as secondary attack.  Badger's changed to A10 Warthog and their parabomb changed to napalm.  Not sure I've matched the original TD's airstrike yet though, but then again, napalm just has bigger fire gfx in TD.  Currently the nuke seems too strong for the weaker buildings taking them out, including the construction yard, in one hit.

 

Any balancing suggestions are welcome.  I was considering give missile subs the regular torpedo as secondary so they can hit ships and other subs, although I did already give the RA gunboat to all teams.  One thing good to know is that missile subs can attack air if you press G for guard mode.  Otherwise they stay hidden.  Something I once tried to do to make more use of that strategy in a lunar rules map was give the AAGun weap as a secondary to regular subs but they wouldn't fire it at all and completely ignored aircraft.

[Eisengeist]

New versions of the rules:

Did some testing in TD.

 

I had set everything's sight in RA to match its values to find infantry nearly blind at sight 1.  Apparently RA sight+1 = TD sight and TD's shroud reveal is wavy square shaped while RA's is more diagonal diamond.  So I added to 1 to all sight values to match TD's scale more closely.

 

Airstrikes have a charge time of it seems 6 minutes (Timed it at about 5:50 but the game's time keeping must just be a little off) and it's composed of three planes.    Still gotta figure out what to do for Ammo, Range, and ROF for crossovertd.txt.

 

Looking at the A10 in both dos C&C's game.dat through CCedit and in Nyerguds's aircraft.ini, they have ammo 3,  Speed is same as attack copters, and all other stats match the Badger Bomber and Yak.  In action they seem to have a lot more ammo than 3 even if it's very large napalm fire and it's three plans dropping it.  Can you get airstrikes from crates in multi?  Maybe they're toned down compared to single player?  I still gotta figure this out for crossovertd.txt.  Matching the numbers to TD's stats isn't as revelent if the behavior is different.  In regular crossover having A10's as a normal controlled plane I set range down to 1.75 and ROF faster to 3 so they would drop their payload more accurately on a target.  In crossovertd.txt I set Range 2 and ROF 5.  At range 4.5 they start dropping way too far before target and with ROF 20 they drop about 1 per a pass.  Napalm's values in both RA and TD are Damage=100 ROF=20 and Range=4.5 which does not seem to work well in RA.  ParaBombs is RA have ROF=4 and Range=4.5 with the Badger having ammo 5.

 

I set the airstrike/parabomb charge time to 6 in the td.txt to match TD and in the other two txt I set it 10 to average between that and RA's 14.

 

In crossovertd.txt I set atom damage from 1000 to 800 but haven't tested yet.

With the slower rate of fire and curley shuffle I set their attacks to primary and secondary for both attack copters so they do two quick shots before shuffling just like TD behavior even though that game has them set as primary only and doesn't have fires twice listed for them.  I had accidently put a slow firing rate for MiG's mavericks missiles so I deleted that ROF.  Since Colt45 and ParaBomb are freed up as unused weapons in the td.txt and I used ParaBomb for an Antbite with stats of the Velociraptor/T-Rex bite and gave Ant 3 the Raptor's stats with crusher=no and the same speed I set for Recon Bikes.

 

Just for the heck of it I tested giving TorpTube as a secondary to Missile Subs and they won't use it.  I suspect they're hardcoded to not attack other sea units  and regular Subs may be hardcoded to not attack aircraft (but will attack land targets if given an attack such as 155mm).  Not of that is in these files.

 

So current versions of these files are attached to this post.  I still don't see reason enough to update ironxo.mpr.

[Eisengeist]

Here's the current versions of my rules:

It seems I have enough reason to upload an Iron Crossover v1.1 soon.

Aside from the MRLS cost being left at 600 instead of 800, and fixing unused stuff and commented out stuff,  I noticed something more important.  The Commando's sniper rifle seemed less effective unless his target is standing still.  It turns out the Hollowpoint warhead has a spread of 4 in TD but only 1 in RA.  Tanya just fires rapidly but it really affects the Commando.  I'll just hold off a bit from uploading ironxo11.mpr a bit in case I notice something else or anyone has good suggestions or notices something wrong.

 

In amal/td.txt I set all the warhead spreads like TD.

 

td.txt:

I have the Airstrike in TD's single player at least figured out better.  Within the same map (GDI15) I get one or three planes.  It seems cut down to one when Nod has just a few buildings.  I'm just keeping plane count at 3.  Each plane drops ten napalm bombs one after another which isn't even a multiple of it's ammo setting of 3 (so there goes a theory I was thinking of it autoreloading after a pause).  The TD airstrike can't be replicated exactly in RA but I think I got it close enough to the behavior.  I lowered the range a little bit to 4 and set ROF down to 3.  Then I turned the plane's ROT (turning speed) up to 10.  In TD the plane turns around while napalming.  In RA it goes by in passes and turns 180 and is more finicky about firing on its target.  So I got it so a plane usually drops all its payload in two passes, sometimes a third pass for the last one or two napalm out of ten.  The over all area napalmed is similar to TD results.  Just the exact target itself only gets hit a little.  The only other possibility to do is slow down the plane.  I'd still like to see how an airstrike is in multi if a crate will give it.

With Tanya having the sniper rifle, I used the Colt45 for the Antbite with Dino stats and have ParaBomb unused incase you want to make the Cargo Plane replacing the Yak do that instead of the Yak's gun.  Set Iron Curtain tech level back up to 10 while Chrono is 9 for this variation since airstrike is better.

 

regular crossover and amal.txt I still have A10's as replacement Yak's and left the RA style ParaBombs (but dropped by cargo planes).  A10's only have ammo 3 and I think I have the range set for them to get their target most accurate.  Sometimes they fly by and don't want to fire at a moving target though.

 

Some things such as Tesla Tank range and PortaTesla range vary between the three versions.

 

Unless the A10 as a direct controlled replacement Yak needs any adjustment, I think the only major question is what AtomDamage should be in td.txt.  Since buildings are half strength and the construction yard is less than half I currently have the nuke halved at 500 instead of 1000, but that makes it even less effective against vehicles maybe.  It does have a better spead with TD values.  I also wonder if 1500 is too cheap for Chrono Tanks in any version.  It's just that 2400 was way too high for the Allies only anti-air vehicle and they only have light armor.  Maybe the td.txt version I'll put it back up a little to 1700.  But 1500 being the same as Mammoth Tanks and Tesla Tanks seems pretty fair.  It depends on the economy being too easy for a large effective well coordinated Chrono attack and their attack is the powerful secondary attack of Mammoth Tanks.  But hey, Nod has cheaper, fast stealth tanks, though their missiles are weaker and HP is pretty low.

 

Other possible balancing issues:  Is 1.1 groundspeed bonus a little crass for Allied Greece and I should change them to better armor (0.9) instead?  Ukraine has 1.1 GS but their attack vehicles range slower from speed 4 to 8.  In versions where light tanks are left at speed 9 faster than medium tanks at 8, should I lengthen their firing rate to TD's 60 instead of RA's 40?  Medium Tanks have a more powerful, longer ranged gun with ROF 50.  I saw a good post by someone that overall, 0.9 ROF is better than 0.9 armor which is better than 1.1 Firepower, but 1.1 Groundspeed wasn't considered.  I've considered switching the bonuses of the two Nod teams, because German Nod might be the weaker of the two but then again they are the sneakiest team having stealth tanks, subs, and the chronosphere.

 

Updates:

Napalm range increased from 1.75 to 2.75.  The lack of south firing north advantage was making the A10's sometimes not want to drop anything flying south until they come the other way north.  Now they should drop at least one or two napalm before turning around to finish.  And they drop all three flying north.

 

Ironxo11.mpr (version 1.1) released and here's current rules (crossoveramal.txt renamed to alt)

[Eisengeist]

Updated td.txt:

TD's multiplayer nuke damage seems to be 300 as accurately as I can tell and I halved the Democharge damage from 500 to 250.  Chronotank restored to full price because I'm sure it's devastating when buildings have half the strength. 

New tdpure.txt

Closest replication of TD.  No country bonuses.  Tech Level 1-7 just like TD except no nuke (tech 8 for that), where no new RA stuff shows up except land units unique to Allies or Soviets that I haven't given to other teams.  At level 7 the Allies have their Chronotank and Mobile Gap Gener (no grenades now but more effective at tech levels the GPS or spy plane aren't available). and Soviets have their Tesla Tank and Mad Tank.  Then tech level 9 adds mine layers, spy, thief, medic, mechanic, dog, naval stuff, airfield but no spy plane, chronosphere.  Level 10 adds GPS, Spyplane, Iron Curtain, and Demotruck.  One other tech level difference from TD other than nukes put up at 8.  Copters still reduced from 6 to 5 because I remember once playing as Nod at level 5 a GDI player couldn't do anything against my line of obelisks along ridges with the only entrance to my base.  Level 4 might still present a similar challenge but advanced power plants aren't available til 5 so that means building a lot more regular plants to sustain a ridiculous amount of obelisks.

 

BTW, in any serious crossover games. I recommend short game on due to the existence of stealth tanks and stealth from crates.  RA won't reveal them when they're all someone has left like it does with subs.

 

More maps to come reasonably soon when I have the free time.

 

Update: Just made discovery regarding how big fire you see in RA.  In TD the projectiles have explosions defined aside from the warhead so airstrike has napalm2 and SSM has napalm3 while both have fire as the warhead.  In RA damage of the weapon determines the size of the fire when its warhead is fire.  So damage=113 or greater gives the biggest fire.  Fortunately in my released map I have the SSM/V2 rocket set to 150 so it has the biggest fire and napalm has the second biggest fire at 100, although I think the fire is smaller than napalm2 in TD.  Don't know where the next cut-off is but damage 1 gives tiny fire.  In any crossover txts that have Napalm or Scud(V2/SSM) or FireballLauncher(Flame Tower) set to 100, I put them up to 113.  Except for tdpure.txt I left napalm and scud at 100. There's the dilemma of whether you want exact TD stats or an awesome bigger fire explosion.  I guess I would put the scud at 113 and leave napalm 100 there so it's currently 100 there with 113 commented out for the scud and whoever uses those rules can make the choice.

 

 

[Eisengeist]

Been working on various rules, tweaking things.  Attached editlog.txt

 

Kind of new map (actually three previously released maps combined into one):  XO-Amalgam of Death.  Features computer buildings to capture (although you'll probably get killed by other players while trying to take much of them).  Careful what computer stuff you attack.    You could play skirmish with no AI opponents to explore and still have plenty to fight. A couple people complained about starting too close together, but I say just destroy the enemy first and that's what I did.  Even if you lose the overall war, at least you have a victory under your belt.  Had some epic battles I wish I thought to take screenshots of the action.  Won a 3 vs 3 and was the last one eliminated by the winning team in a 2vs2vs2 after my teammate quit early on. This map is kind of a novelty and kind of standard at the same time with my alt rules for slower C&C style tanks.  I need to release some more just standard maps.

 

If playing offline, remember to use RA1MPLauncher.exe to play skirmish with CNCNet's spawn1.mix loaded for the C&C1 gfx.

 

EDIT: Map updated to v2.0

xoamlgm2.mpr

[Eisengeist]

New rules , some stock maps I gave a couple people already and played at least two on CNCNet.  And Counterstrike's Lunar Battle Field map with its crazy rules merged with XO.  It really looks like the moon now using the barren theater.  Instead of half ground speed I edited each unit speed individually to RA speed minus one, or slower, or TD speed or slower, so everything should be at least a little faster than the painful half speed of the original Lunar Battle Field.  I played with gravity setting wondering why it wasn't used in a moon map and found out why...  I changed it from 3 and 0.5 (Moon has 1/6 Earth gravity, right?) but got a frequent side effect of ballistics missing their target and flying all the way across the map and off screen.  Due to that problem it has been commented out.  This version of Lunar Battle Field also has a custom paratroop drop.

 

Chrono doesn't kill cargo in Arena Valley X, Treasure Isle, and Lunar stuff.

 

More specifics:

XO-Gold Coast (with a bit faster ore regen) and Marooned II are pretty standard alt with slower tanks.

XO-Teasure Isle has some more abundant crates, chrono doesn't kill cargo.  Soviets get APC.  Nod and Soviet have Cargo plane with three parabombs and anyone with an airfield has the MiG.  A10 WartHog is used for airstrike.

XO-Arena Valley X has regular RA speed tanks, some of the crate changes and higher chrono vortex chance from other Extreme maps.  Spanish GDI only's A10 replacing Yaks have 10 ammo but cost double.  Chrono doesn't kill cargo.  Soviet have APC and Allies get transport chinook. Since there's only two small ponds, MSub and Cruiser are restored to full damage and Destroyer's have TD Gunboat strength and speed missiles.  V2 is restored to RA style except just slightly weaker but still big napalm fire like TD.  CamoPillbox which was averaged a bit between it and TD Guard Tower back at RA damage.

 

All stockmap theaters changed to the new additional ones:

Gold Coast and Lunar = Barren

Marooned II = Desert

Treasure Isle = Jungle

Arena Valley X = TD's Winter (like Temperate with a little snow and frost)

 

I'm holding off from releasing naval maps until I figure out what to do with them, since RA's cap of 100 vessels really puts a damper on them.  I may have a way to bypass the cap a little.

 

Something I suggest to double the firepower of the mobile gap generator not included in these rules is go to its [MGG] section and add

Secondary=Grenade

Then it launches two grenades in quick succession making it a better offensive unit.

 

EDIT: Most maps updated to v2.0

xoarenvx.mpr

xotrisl2.mpr

xogldcs2.mpr

xomaroo2.mpr

xolunab2.mpr

[Eisengeist]

Updated and did major work on old maps for xo and xo lunar editions.

 

With the two versions of the Shards of Caina/Luna naval + air map, the 100 vessel cap is bypassed for possibly the most epic naval & air battles within RA1.  The expanded Cape Town maps without bypassing the cap lend themselves very well to a good amount of naval combat with the major body of water being a big E shape in the map.  If sometime CnCNet allows maximums to be changed, the Shards maps have the cap increased but for now CNCNet ignores that so reinforcements and paraships allow the cap to be bypassed and AI actually gets naval units this way.  If RA1 is still too limited for naval, then there's always the Dawn of the Tiberium Age standalone mod game that combines RA1 and C&C1 within TS's engine and also CnC Reloaded that combines TS into RA2.

 

All rules sets are slightly updated.

 

Because I tailor rules specifically on a map by map basis, sometimes you may want to grab rules out of a map rather than txt files of the rules.

 

For example, Lunar's unit speeds and slower firing rate may be too slow.  So in Thawed Shards of Luna they're normal XO speed and in Loonie Town they're XO alt speed.  Also in those two Lunar maps I decided to modify it further and make GDI resemble the selection of units/defenses in Dune 2000 (in which all three teams are fairly similar).  Except rather than making Artillery buildable by them, you get them through reinforcements or paradrops.

 

I don't know and haven't researched actual stats of Dune but I made up a rough comparison of Dune vs C&C:

 

Light Infantry = Minigunner

Trooper = Rocket Infantry

Fremen (A) = Stealth Minigunner

Saboteur (O) = Commando without any gun

Sardaukar (?) = Machinegun + Rocket Infantry

Engineer = same

Thumper = nothing

 

MCV = same

Trike = Recon Bike with machinegun

Raider (O) = Trike/Bike with better FP,speed,armor

Quad = four wheeler (buggy) with Rockets

Main Battle Tank = Medium Tank

Missile Tank = sturdier MRLS

Siege Tank = sturdier Artillery

Sonic Tank (A) = nothing

Devastator Tank (H) = Mammoth Tank

Deviator (O) = nothing

Ornithopter (A) = Orca but nondirect controlled parabomb airstrike?

Carryall = ~chinook or transport ship

Frigate = ~transport ship (but sea not air)

Sandworm = nothing, ~Viceroid,Dinosaurs,GiantAnts

 

Gun Turret = same

Rocket Turret = Advanced Guard Tower

 

In Lunar rules I gave everyone Tanya and depending on the map you can build a technology center or capture a forward command center to build a Commando without C4 that's like Fremen + Sardaukar (stealth+machingune+rockets).

 

See this thread on custom paradrops: http://cnc-comm.com/community/index.php?topic=2599.0

 

And my own webpage has been updated: http://xo.cncguild.net/

 

EDIT: Cape Town and Looney Town updated to v2.0

xocainap.mpr

xocainal.mpr

xocapet2.mpr

xolnytn2.mpr

[Eisengeist]

I have had a request for pure Tiberian Dawn rules as exact as possible with no Allies or Soviet.  Here they are with GDI replacing Allies and Nod replacing soviets.

 

Only things I know are different and couldn't make exactly like TD:

RA vs TD:

No Ion Cannon.

No Chemspray gfx and can't use green signal flare for projectile image.

  But otherwise mimiced functional behavior and stats.

CNCNet/RA95.exe currently ignores crusher=no for Nod buggy replacing a crusher.

Can't replicate same pattern of napalm airstrike.

Can build a space away from buildings.

War Factory vs Refinery build speeds when both cost the same.

RA Adv Power Plant more vulnerable to nuke (It occupies more spaces that are hit).

RA Light Units less vulnerable to nuke than TD with exact TD values

Ore unload much faster = much quicker money which means more tanks.

Ore doesn't hurt infantry.

Flame Thrower different.

Tesla Coil charges faster than Obelisk (so changed ROF to match overall time between shots).

V2 vs SSM (Matched overall timing per 2 shots and always displays loaded missiles).

(TD SSM fired second missile 10 seconds later.  Then first reloaded after 12 sec, 22 sec total.)

(In RA made it fire about every 11 sec for 22 total.)

No Airstrip for Nod vehicles (War Factory for all)

Juggling Units to set correct starting units-Had to have Nod start with medium tanks

(They were depicted as possessing the medium tank in videos in TD).

(It is correct that GDI could start with SSM but couldn't build them).

Various Missing gfx

Spawn1.mix only provides units and Advanced Guard Tower gfx

 

EDIT: Download from later post

[Nyerguds]

-No Chemspray gfx and can't use green signal flare for projectile image.

Seen this mimicked using muzzle flash animations. Check out some of the older RA1 mods.

 

-Can build a space away from buildings.

Um. you can kind of set this for all buildings, can't you? Just set it to 0.

 

-Flame Thrower different.

Again, can be replicated using muzzle flashes. The flamethrower in C&C1 is basically just an invisible projectile with some spread damage on the impact point anyway.

 

-(TD SSM fired second missile 10 seconds later.  Then first reloaded after 12 sec, 22 sec total.)

TD's SSM reloads its two missiles entirely separately, though. No real way to replicate that.

 

-(They were depicted as possessing the medium tank in videos in TD).

Nod were also shown possessing guard towers in the beta screenshots. and GDI had flame tanks. Really, a lot of the videos were made in a stage when none of these things were finalized, and quite some of them are just recoloured to work for both sides, without taking into account what units are on it. Nod doesn't have APCs in the campaign either, while there's a Nod campaign video that shows one.

 

-(It is correct that GDI could start with SSM but couldn't build them).

That's a bug, though.

[Eisengeist]

Is the muzzle flash animation actual replacement gfx someone put in or did someone manage it with just custom rules?  I've seen Red Dawn actually has the ChemSpray, but its warhead is set to SA so you don't see an explosion, which changes the % damage to different armor things.  TD somehow had its warhead HE without displaying an explosion.  Maybe I'll see what the old mod RACC did.

 

I tried Adjacent=0 and it wouldn't let me place the buildings anywhere.  So then I tried 0.5 and 0.99 and RA's default 1 was the lowest number that worked.

 

The APC and Rocket Launcher(MRLS) I set to Owner=allies and DoubleOwned=yes since in the campaign only GDI had them, but in multi both sides could build them.

 

There's of course the ion cannon video where you see a guard tower blasted.  I think Nod shown with medium tank is the most common of those in the final game.  But anyway, i ran out of turret vehicles to juggle around working entirely within just rules to place in a map.

 

GDI starting with the SSM seemed so regular to me I didn't know it was a bug.  Depending on how many units you started with, up to 50 with bases off, they got anywhere from 1 to 4 of them.  Anyway it was the only turreted thing I could replace Light Tanks with.  If I tried to change Light Tanks with image= to any other tank I got graphic glitches.  I juggled things so SSM replaced Light Tank, Light replaced Heavy, Medium replaced Mammoth, Mammoth replaced Medium.  Originally had Buggy replacing Heavy so its little machine gun on top could turn independently and it could be wheeled, but then I needed a turreted vehicle for the TD SSM gfx.  So I ended up with Buggy replacing V2, MRLS replacing Arty, and Arty replacing Mobile Radar Jammer, to get starting units like I did.

 

Anyone else find it odd, that while the Rocket Launcer is called the M.R.L.S, Mobile Rocket Launcher System, the internal graphic resources&rules have it as MSAM (mobile sam) and the Surface to Surface Missile Launcher as MLRS (wrong order, originally a typo that stayed?)?  And RA included the SSM(MLRS) and Flame Tank(FTNK) images all along, but just no icons for having them buildable, which fortunately CNCNet's spawn1.mix adds.  I know I'm not the only one wishing it had Obelisk gfx to replace the Tesla Coil with, even if it's still shooting electricity instead of the red laser.

 

So after all that, it seems MAYBE I could just get something closer for muzzle flash for flamethrower just modding rules?

[Nyerguds]

On the flamer/chem thing... I don't quite remember how it worked, but I remember that the animations for all directions were put in a single SHP file for it to work. Go look up those old mods; I'm sure ra.afraid.org must have them.

 

I also remember that to get around the units limit they often used ants for the bike and stealth tank, simply replacing the ant graphics accordingly. The visible effect of that is of course that they only have 8 directional frames, and no smooth turning.

 

In beta footage and trailers, the ion cannon video shows a GDI base, with GDI flags; guard tower aside, it was the superweapon that switched sides in that case

 

Oh, and MLRS is Multiple Launch Rocket system, not "Mobile Rocket Launcher System"; that would have the "L" and "R" in the middle switched

 

And the MLRS can be loaded with quite a variety of ammunition, including one large missile per rocket pod. The SSM is definitely based on the MLRS chassis.

[Eisengeist]

I was going by the C&C manual for the Rocket Launcher and SSM.  And in game pointing to the unit, it just says "Rocket Launcher" and "S.S.M. Launcher." (But in my stuff all Name= lines are commented out to avoid crashing RA) See the attached pic of the digital manual.

 

What I'm trying to do for now is make just rules changes that can be contained within a map, so it's easy for just anyone to play these map mods in otherwise regular unmodded RA online without having to install a whole mod(which I don't know if that works over CNCNet) or another standalone mod game.  When I really want to be as close as possible to original TD in RA I'll tailor my maps for Red Dawn with various things tweaked within them rather than reinventing the wheel.  I was doing that while having toned down RA stuff available until I came up with my XO stuff.  I also plan to make XO stuff for Red Dawn at some point.  I've theorized what to do and substitutions to make with it having gotten rid of some RA resources.

 

I tried four different RA to C&C conversions this morning.

Some "CnC in RA v2.10" was a glitchy crashing mess.  The three better ones:

C&C Margera's Rules, RACC("RA to CnC v2.0"), and Red Dawn all had the ChemSpray like you describe, however two of those gave it the Fire warhead and Red Dawn had SA, while original TD actually had an HE warhead that was invisible with no explosion sound.  And that affects its % damage to different armor things.  So far all of these just have the RA style fireballs for flamers.  Something cool Margera did was change the tiny barely noticeable turret on front of an allied gunboat to a rocket turret to make it resemble GDI's gunboat a little more.

 

Something funny though is Dawn of the Tiberium Age (based on TS) actually has the C&C style flame for Nod infantry and Flame Tanks while it has RA style fireballs for Soviet infantry and Flame Towers.  Having Nod and Soviet flamer infantry as different units, it also maintained that Soviets require a tech center and I would guess their other differences in stats.  It has also the Nod airstrip with vehicles delivered by the cargo plane.

[Eisengeist]

TDpure:

Flame Tank set to crewed=yes.  And just cleaned up a bit with stuff redundant to both unmodded rules and XO deleted and put things in same order as rules.ini

 

EDIT: Lowered some Civilian buildings strength to match TD

 

And updated all the xo rule sets.

[Nyerguds]

I know what they put in the manual. But you were talking about the internal codes in the game, hence why I explained where that came from.

[Eisengeist]

In my conversion of RA into closest TD rules:

Made the Chemspray (although it's just gray smoking projectile)  have an invisible

silent version of the HE warhead.  Used mechanical for it since the mechanic is disabled.

 

Saw a buggy have a big napalm explosion because it replaced the V2, so I appropriately set it Explodes=no for that and yes for the SSM.

 

All XO rules are unaffected.

[Tschokky]

My total TD conversion replaces the Shock Trooper as the Chem Warrior. All animations are done, working very well.

[Jacko]

My total TD conversion replaces the Shock Trooper as the Chem Warrior. All animations are done, working very well.

 

I believe allen did the same for Red Dawn, although the warhead doesn't do splash dmg

[Eisengeist]

TD

MultiNukeDamage=300

Construction Yard

Strength=400

Armor=wood

Advanced Power Plant

Strength=300

Armor=wood

The CY can be destroyed with a single nuke, but has a chance of surviving depending on spot targeted.  Adv Power survives.

 

RA

MultiAtomDamage=1000

[FACT]Construction Yard

Strength=1000

Armor=heavy

[APWR]Advanced Power Plant

Strength=700

Armor=wood

CY survives nuke but single nuke can destroy Adv Power.

 

You set TD stats in RA and Adv Powr gets destroyed by a single nuke because it occupies more spots that are hit.

 

So in RA if you want mostly TD stats and Adv Powr to survive a nuke.

Set str to 450 instead of 300.

 

In RA if you want RA AtomDamage 1000 with full strength buildings except for CY and APwr to behave like TD with nukes.  Have both armor=wood, CY str=1150, and APwr str=1400.  Bigger RA APwr still occupies less spots than CY so it survives more easily with same stats as it while it doesn't.  Just setting armor to wood while leaving str at 1000 makes the CY get blown up too easily every time when it should have at least a chance of surviving.  RA's nuke does most damage to a building southwest of its targeting.  Same as Red Dawn, I like to leave most buildings at RA str since the economy is just better with harvesters instantly unloading so there's always more tanks in RA even when everything is set to TD stats.  Unfortunately with all TD stats light units are less vulnerable to nukes in RA, for what reason I don't know.

 

I'll probably add these different str settings to my rules sets sometime but commented out in most.

[Nyerguds]

Um. Do keep in mind that the internal hit points of structures in C&C1 (and in the inis I created from that) are halved.

 

You need to multiply those by 2 to get the real value. An Advanced Power Plant has 600 hit points, exactly the damage done by the ion cannon.

 

 

[Eisengeist]

And that doubling doesn't take place in RA.  So the RA strengths of usually exactly double is exactly the same as TD, except for AdvPowr,WarFactory,TechCenters,and CY.  I thought buildings got destroyed easier in C&C but I just tested having five minigunners attacking barracks, CY, and Power Plant.  In TD it took 20 shots from all for two of those and 10 for the powr plant.  In RA with TD stats it only took 10 and 5.  Thanks, I'm glad that's sorted out and fortunately I didn't release any maps with half str except paradrop test maps on the "Tech Center" forum here.

 

This throws off the TD nuke damage I have though.  With Nuke damage at 500 it can destroy a CY with 800 str but can't destroy an Adv Powr with RA's str 700.  600 str is a goner with the RA Adv Powr occupying more spaces.  Of course a weaker nuke is still less effective against light units, but it should be weaker than the Ion Cannon while that does more damage to smaller area, right?  And this str doubling in TD is for structures only and not any vehicles, infantry, or aircraft.  Helis do have 125 str in TD and 225 in RA.  But RA has better anti-air with much improved rocket soldiers and Allied AAguns are brutal.

[Jacko]

Well, in terms of AA defense im pretty sure SAMs went backwards by the same amount.

Those things are just useless

[Eisengeist]

EDIT: SAM's Nike has 50 ROF in TD and I have it that way in TD rule sets.  In regular/alt XO I set it to 40.  So they definitely got a firing rate improvement in RA.

 

SAM's are roughly equivalent.  In TD they doublefire with a ROF of 40.  In RA they singlefire with a faster ROF of 20.  Meanwhile as their primary anti-air only missile rocket soldiers gain exactly the SAM missile but singlefire with a ROF 40.  Their regular all-purpose rocket is actually their secondary then.  So in RA, a SAM = a whole two rocket soldiers while attack copters got the increase from 125 to 225 HP while more powerful weapons.  One other factor:  In TD the SAM stays closed up in the ground and comes out each time to fire a burst of 2 missiles, while RA it stays up and out since it's built.  I should time its real resulting firing rate in both games.  Also I'm not sure if TD had any special case programming where it took less damage while down in the ground and more damage when out.

 

UPDATE: The SAM really spends a lot of time going up and down in TD making it about 6.8 to over 7 seconds between shots.  To best simulate this I increased ROF to 140 in RA.  How long it takes varies because each time the turret comes up it faces the same direction and has to turn varying amounts to its target.

 

In XOTD rules I'll likewise multiply the AA-gun's 10 ROF by 3.5 to 35 to be similiar in not obliterating 125 str copters so quick.

 

In TD it does take less damage while closed up.  I tested with five minigunners attacking at at once.  In RA (400 str heavy armor) it took 20 group shots to destroy.  With it down in the ground in TD (200 str x 2=400, heavy armor) it took 20 just to get it to half life.  Then with it up to attack nearby orcas, the minigunners got it low on life with 20 shots and probably would have destroyed it with that many if the computer didn't start repairing at half life.  I got no way to simulate it being tougher when closed and increased its str will making tougher tougher for aircraft attacking it so I'm just gonna leave that aspect as it is.

 

Also found that with a 1000 Dam nuke, giving Advanced Power Plants light armor and 1000 hit points allows them to survive it (aside from 1400 str with wood armor).  Actually 950 kinda works but being on fire can finish it off in a couple seconds if you don't repair immediately.  1400 str seems a little ridiculous.  I think the Temple of Nod is the only thing that ever had over 1000, with TD's value of 1000x2.

 

New rulesets to come soon.  Just some quick stability testing to do.

[Eisengeist]

Here's all the updated rules sets.  See xoeditlog.txt for all the changes and some additions.  I also recommend viewing the comments in rules sets.

 

Rule of thumb:  If Advanced Power Plant costs 700 then they withstand a nuke and a CY can be destroyed by one.  If Adv Power costs 500 then they can be destroyed by a nuke and CY can withstand one.

 

Just to remind:

(xo short for crossover)

tdpure = Just GDI vs Nod

xotdpure = C&C vs RA crossover, close to TD as possible

xotd = little less close to TD

xotdalt = RA speed infantry and some strength/damage closer to RA

xo = most like RA

xolunar = XO combined with rules of Counterstrike map Lunar Battlefield but units a little faster than its half speed