Opinions Wanted on competitive 1v1 Yuri Maps

[XXxPrePxX]

It's a good time to get discussion going on potential good maps for QM. We have other topics for AvS / SvA (Check: https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/7420-question-yr-quick-match-map-pool/?page=2), but I wanted to dedicate this topic to the main problem plauging the YR QM scene since day one: competitive maps vs. Yuri. 

This topic is NOT about other balancing options available/editing the game. This is strictly about the maps available to us.

What do we know?
We already are very familiar with the WOL maps (all the original maps: think Heartland, CS, etc). We've had years of experience on many of these maps on YR XWIS QM, so we've come up with somewhere around 10-14 maps that work well for yuri combat. There's some minor discrepancies here and there, but overall -- the community knows what it's doing with these maps. 

What do we Need?
I am looking for opinions on the newer maps adapted from RA2 QM and other avenues. Maps like Reconcile, Divide and Conquer, and Coldest Peak, which are already in QM currently on CNCNet. I am looking for people to give their opinions on other new maps that *might* work in QM for yuri war. 

(TL:DR VERSION)Some minor discrepancies that I am looking at right now are:

- Dry Heat (AvY) Do you think this is a fair battle for allieds?
- Hamer and Sickle (SvY) Is this fair for Soviets?
- What is your opinion on Reconcile, Divide and Conquer, Coldest Peak for Yuri war (SvY / AvY)?
- What other (non-WOL original) maps should be considered for a competitive YvS and/or YvA 1on1?
- Have other thoughts on the maps for yuri combat? Post it here.

 

[Lucifer]

can you post the current map pool ?

[Grant]

What might be cool is to have:

• 5-10 standard maps in the pool, that you know you're going to be playing all month.
• Have 2 bonus maps that get changed each week. 
  For example, you could see in addition to your 10 standard maps, two maps like Sedona and Heck added in week 1.
  Then in week 2, after that, Heck and Sedona could be replaced with East vs Best and Arena 33 forever.

P.s just example maps.

 

[XXxPrePxX]

18 minutes ago, Lucifer said:

can you post the current map pool ?

Dune Patrol
Heartland
Reconcile
Divide and Conquer
Offense Defense
Hidden Valley
Dustbowl
Hammer and Sickle
Country Swing
Sahara Mirage
Montana DMZ
Coldest Peak
Dry Heat

 

**NOTE: This map pool is going to change, it is the way it is right now as we are limited in functionality. This is just to balance Yuri best we can why the alpha goes on, until we get the better functionality.

[XXxPrePxX]

10 minutes ago, Grant said:

What might be cool is to have:

• 5-10 standard maps in the pool, that you know you're going to be playing all month.
• Have 2 bonus maps that get changed each week. 
  For example, you could see in addition to your 10 standard maps, two maps like Sedona and Heck added in week 1.
  Then in week 2, after that, Heck and Sedona could be replaced with East vs Best and Arena 33 forever.

P.s just example maps.

 

Have you seen my post in "Map List" Thread in testers forum? I suggested something similar, but more maps. Frequency prefers a smaller map list compared to my proposal. It's something to debate/talk about at a later time methinks.

Additionally, here's what I think would be the best set up for potential Map listing going forward:

1. Yuri maps: There is a set of 10-14 maps that allow for a sort-of balanced game between Yuri vs. Allieds and Yuri vs. Soviets.

These include many of the current maps in QM (Heartland, Dry Heat, Offense Defense, Dune Patrol, Sahara Mirage, and some more).

These would have to be virtually stapled into Quick match. There's so few maps that actually work for Yuri warfare that we don't have much choice on changing it monthly/yearly. Of course, we can always add/change a map or a few maps here and there as we see fit.

 

2. For allieds vs. Soviets and mirror matches we could have:

1 Map community driven: Meaning, every month we could have a map-making competition where we select one map from the community that we feel is created properly to throw into quick match for the month and give extra exposure. This would inspire map-makers to come be a part of the community so that there map gets noticed.

8-10 Staple maps for the year: Meaning we pretty much keep these maps into Quick Match all year long and consider them the classics. The maps were the playing field is even, they should be extremely well known, and are quintessential QM maps. Maps like Country Swing, Dune Patrol, Official Tournament Map B, Divide and Conquer maybe, and some others come to mind.

2 unknown maps that are switched out every month: Maps like Let There be Fight and Loaded Barrel which are relatively unknown to the community will be thrown into QM to give it extra creativity. This will keep the QM experience fresh.

5-7 rotation based maps: Another 5-7 maps based on a rotating monthly set up. Maps like Urban Rush, Official Tournament map A fit into this part where they are simply rotated every month to keep QM fresh. Extra care will be made here to make sure the maps have differences in them. Ie. some maps have navy, some do not, some are small, some are large, some have heavy resources (Tanyas Training Grounds) some have none (some of the newer maps).

 

This gives around 16-20 maps into QM which I think is a great number to be at.

Additionally, in the monthly ladder reports where we talk about winners of the ladder we can also talk about map changes.

 

[DoDger]

i dont have much experience when it come to this but what about city under Siega [2vs4] and blood feud ?

[XXxPrePxX]

City Under is a very very bad map for yuri. Any map with that many garrisionable buildings to defend is usually a disaster (initiates in buildings are insanely OP, like truly INSANE) AND magnetrons have a field day with the walls, trees, buildings, objects. Mags can sit from across the side and fuck the opponent up. EDIT: Unless you are talking about a different map??

 

Blood feud has been used before, however, we use Dune patrol as it is similar, but more balanced as there is less hills/trees on dune (mags like the hills/trees). 

Edited October 24, 2017 by XXxPrePxX

[Lucifer]

9 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

Map community driven: Meaning, every month we could have a map-making competition where we select one map from the community that we feel is created properly to throw into quick match for the month and give extra exposure. This would inspire map-makers to come be a part of the community so that there map gets noticed.

this  ! 

[LeOwNzAll]

12 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

Dune Patrol  - OK
Heartland - OK
Reconcile - Never played, can you show me the map in little picture? (as the preview)
Divide and Conquer - Never played, can you show me the map in little picture? (as the preview)
Offense Defense - Can be hard for Sov vs Yuri. 

Hidden Valley - Can be hard for allied/sov vs Yuri. 
Dustbowl - OK
Hammer and Sickle - I would like to try some MU as Sov vs Yuri, to see if it's doable or not.
Country Swing - OK
Sahara Mirage - OK
Montana DMZ - OK
Coldest Peak - Never played, can you show me the map in little picture? (as the preview)
Dry Heat - OK, also for allied.

From my opinions. 

I will try to check when i'm home if there are others maps playable vs Yuri, and water map. 

 

Also, i noticed it's always Yellow vs Red, so always the same spot. On WOL (or XWIS) time, you can play different spot, and so different BO etc. needed to know about the map and what to do. 

I don't know if it's possible to do it again? on CS for example it's always 1 v 4. It can be also : 1 v 3; 2 v 4. On DH it's always top vs bottom, there is also L v R.

Edited October 25, 2017 by LeOwNzAll

[DoDger]

4 hours ago, LeOwNzAll said:

Also, i noticed it's always Yellow vs Red, so always the same spot. On WOL (or XWIS) time, you can play different spot, and so different BO etc. needed to know about the map and what to do. 

I don't know if it's possible to do it again? on CS for example it's always 1 v 4. It can be also : 1 v 3; 2 v 4. On DH it's always top vs bottom, there is also L v R.

yea i hv noticed that also and not just that ik it's 1v1 so it should be 50/50 chance to get either spot but i gatta say that i hv been playin the same map and same spot every single time only once changed at hammer and sickle but after that it never changed always same spot and same colore yellow ofc

Edited October 25, 2017 by DoDger

[XXxPrePxX]

2 hours ago, LeOwNzAll said:

Also, i noticed it's always Yellow vs Red, so always the same spot. On WOL (or XWIS) time, you can play different spot, and so different BO etc. needed to know about the map and what to do. 

I don't know if it's possible to do it again? on CS for example it's always 1 v 4. It can be also : 1 v 3; 2 v 4. On DH it's always top vs bottom, there is also L v R.

The reason for the spots is due to how it is all set up. When you have random spots on CNCNET you end up sometimes getting placed in awkward positions, so we have to assign spots to each map that is in the map list.
Technically, we could double the map list with the same maps and have the different spots, but that seems like more work for not much reward.

[LeOwNzAll]

Ok that's what i thought. Yes if it's alot of work. If not, why not. 

Color is assigned also or can be rdm, or we can choose ? I want to play as blue this is my color !! lol !

[PrezSpammer]

Exclusive YvY Maps: Frostbite, Isle of Oades, No Rest for the Wicked, Oceanside, Otter's Revenge, Sea of Isolation

Destroyable bridges always turned on in all YvY matches

AvA, SvS, YvY: Alaskan Oil Spill, Hammer & Sickle, Tower of Power, Tsunami and Turf War

AvA, AvS, SvS or YvY: all official tourney maps, Canyon Fodder, Cold War, DC Uprising, Depth Charge, Double Trouble, Face Down, Four Corners, Head for the HIlls, Lake Blitzen, Little Big Bay, Little Big Lake, Little Piece of Dune, Little Piece of Island, Meat Grinder, Paris Revisited, River Rampage, Roundhouse Kick, Shrapnel Mountain, Sovereign Land, Snow Valley, South Pacific, Spirit of Mojo One, Stormy Weather, Tanya's Training Grounds and Twin Peaks

[KinKys3x]

I posted this in our discord chat and tagged grant so ill post here so you can review what i have been thinking prep

 

here is a map list i think would be competitive for 1v1 and aswell show skills from all different types of play including naval wars, early game rush, some smaller long game matches, some maps with mixture of oils navy land, some maps showing skill of expanding your base moving around to get more ore, some maps with critical choke points or areas to take charge of, i mixed in maps of old some classics and some of the newer maps that the ra2 community has brought yuri. i also labeled the spots which i believe is most competitive for each map based on ore locations and how 1st refinerys would be placed given equal oppertunity to start fast

 

 

2 Player sized maps

alaskan oil spill
Arden River

loaded barrel

reconcile

Amazon Delta

Blood feud

Dune Patrol

little piece of dune

new heights

thin ice

hidden valley

little big bay

offical b

pirate bay

river rampage

 

4 player size maps with competiive spot choices

depth charge 2v4
tsunami 2v4

coldest peak 3v4
divide and conquer 1v3

dry heat 2v4

face down 3v4
golden state valley 2v3
heartland 3v2

lakeside 3v4

little piece of island 1v3

offense defense 1v4

caverns of siberia 1v2

jungle of vietnam 2v3

south pacific 1v3

stormy weather 1v4

 

6 player size maps with competiive spot choices

Tour of egypt 1v6

 

8 player size maps with competiive spot choices

Heck Freezes over 1v3

[XXxPrePxX]

Yeah -- the list of maps is great. I have some few notes:

1) Little Piece of Dune is generally not considered a good map simply because the person that controls the airport in the first 1 minute of the game, usually controls all the gems and the pathway to the other opponent. I personally love the map, but I can see how that map is beyond frustrating for some players. 

2) With your map listing,  @Lucifer's map listing, and @PrezSpammer's map listings they all have the following in common:

• They are somewhat long. Kinky's has something around 30, Prez has a ton, Lucifer a ton. The general consensus from the team looking at a map listing for QM is that they want to have a smaller map list per month basis. My proposal has around 20 maps per a given faction (that includes Yuri maps, which none of the 3 listings above includes). 
• None of the three listings include the discussion on Yuri maps. These are the more trickier cases. Finding good maps for AvA / SvS / SvA is not the difficult part, in fact, the difficult part is selecting only a few of them, which the community can discuss more prevalently now or in a future time when we are at that stage. 
• No one is talking about what this thread was for  -- any new integrated maps being good for Yuri war fare :p. Perhaps I set this thread off on the wrong foot by posting a reply regarding my proposal, lol. I guess I also should have been more clear in my topic title. 'Yuri Maps' means Yuri faction maps, not YR maps. 

3) To @PrezSpammer,  you have some highly questionable maps in your listing: LBL, Official Tourny Map 4, Canyon Fodder, DC Uprising, Four Corners, Little Piece of Dune, Shrapnel Mountain, and somewhat Tanya's Training Grounds are all maps that the community generally wouldn't want in QM due to possible imbalances, amount of tech buildings, importance of certain tech buildings, etc. :p. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by XXxPrePxX

[PrezSpammer]

I figured for QM to be kept in proper running order, there should be surveys in place as well as extensive series of test matches when it comes to bringing maps in and out of rotation and for determining which faction matchups are most appropriate. A significant number of those maps were mainly listed to be candidates for future consideration while several others are perfect shoe-ins. Things got very stale on XWIS with the same limited variety of QM maps in place all the time and changes being so few and far between not to mention frequent faction mismatches. Whichever maps gain approval during the testing phase (perhaps set some sort of minimum like 55% or higher), their test scores are then given out on a ballot for us to vote on. In addition, give out random surveys after every few matches asking if players approve of that particular map being in QM rotation.

Edited October 26, 2017 by PrezSpammer

[KinKys3x]

actually prep all of the maps i listed are most competitive with all factions in mind.

also QM should not favor the community of just PRO opinion/satisfactory.  

there are more maps then just spamming tanks better then your opponent to get the victory. 

for example  little piece of dune is a small map which shows your skill of capturing said paradrop and controlling said para drop as well as controlling the buildings in between.  

you cant look at a map and disqualify it because it favors one strategy over another. 

maps like tsunami depth charge have naval battles but its also crucial to expand to other islands and obtain other oils and ore.   

 

maps like divide and conquer, caverns siberia, dune patrol, blood feud  all have their own tank spammer type feel. the 4 player sized maps include the skill of expanding your base as the games go on.. 

maps like heartland, dry heat, golden state valley,  all pose tank spammer mentality with capturing and securing oils involved in game play

 

maps like stormy weather, south pacific, face down combine aspects of navy/ground attacks with capturing oils. 

 

i also included maps like hidden valley, reconcile, loaded barrel,   more campy type maps to display late game skills what to do in tier 3 battles...
 

 

 

all of the maps i listed are even to all factions.  you can win a game with any faction on any of the maps i listed. 

example maps i excluded and why they are excluded.

 

i see Hammer and sickle on your list, spot 1 hammer sickle has the most money of any spot on the map, also its way to advantageous to Allied faction for that a navy seal can blow bridges and contain the game to naval and supers.  on a map where you need to be in their base to attack the chronosphere gains too big of an edge.  as well as the allied navy force reigns supreme .. so by an allied player sealing bridges and controlling the waters. it will be a guaranteed slow death for the other factions.  maps like ocean side, el darado, and others with bridges that just defeat the idea of the term "quick match"   are reasons why i excluded.  

maps with lots of cliffs bridges but are strictly land maps favor yuri faction too much...  

 

maps with pure money advantages, such as country swing,  where top has almost 20k less money then bottom.   

i put alot of thought into all the maps i listed.     

 

 

if i was to revise the map list down even smaller i would go like this 

 

2 Player sized maps  (8)

alaskan oil spill

loaded barrel

reconcile

Dune Patrol

new heights

thin ice

hidden valley

pirate bay

 

4 player size maps with competiive spot choices  (7)

depth charge 2v4
divide and conquer 1v3

dry heat 2v4

offense defense 1v4

caverns of siberia 1v2

jungle of vietnam 2v3

south pacific 1v3

 

 

15 total maps and then take the others and infiltrate a new 1 or 2 every week

[XXxPrePxX]

@KinKys3x I do not have a map list posted yet, just a proposal of what a potential map listing could include. The current maps in QM that I listed in this thread are NOT my or anyone's suggest map list, but instead are maps picked out to balance the Yuri faction as the QM setting works through different functionality problems allowing us to better optimize the maps towards respective factions.

On the topic of PRO vs. Community, the people who are working on the map list have suggested that the best idea for this is to keep the map list in QM down to minimal maps. If it was my way, we'd see something around 20-30 maps per faction in a given month. However, there is talk about this number going closer to 10-20. I assure you, on my part, I want to keep the QM map list fresh, not just filled with tank-spammy maps, and easy to dive into for newer players. 

21 minutes ago, PrezSpammer said:

I figured for QM to be kept in proper running order, there should be surveys in place as well as extensive series of test matches when it comes to bringing maps in and out of rotation and for determining which faction matchups are most appropriate. A significant number of those maps were mainly listed to be candidates for future consideration while several others are perfect shoe-ins. Things got very stale on XWIS with the same limited variety of QM maps in place all the time and changes being so few and far between not to mention frequent faction mismatches. Whichever maps gain approval during the testing phase (perhaps set some sort of minimum like 55% or higher), their test scores are then given out on a ballot for us to vote on. In addition, give out random surveys after every few matches asking if players approve of that particular map being in QM rotation.

What is the most likely scenario is that we will surveys in the form of topics on this forum. We will likely see a handful of stable maps (5-10 maps) where these maps are in QM year-round. Then, we will see a series of rotation maps which will be more obscure/creative based maps. These maps will be discussed on the forums here. 

I highly disagree with your assessment of XWIS. In fact, it was quite the opposite. XWIS QM had at some point nearly 50-60 maps involved. The only thing stale about this QM environment was the fact that it wasn't updated as often as it should have been. There was nothing limited in variety about XWIS QM which was the problem as new players constantly played new maps every game. You talk about faction mismatches, but I struggle to think of too many on XWIS QM, care to enlighten me? 

Still, the main point of your quote is that the community will of course be open to discussion -- more than likely on these forums rather than an in game survey. 

22 minutes ago, KinKys3x said:

actually prep all of the maps i listed are most competitive with all factions in mind.

also QM should not favor the community of just PRO opinion/satisfactory.  

there are more maps then just spamming tanks better then your opponent to get the victory. 

for example  little piece of dune is a small map which shows your skill of capturing said paradrop and controlling said para drop as well as controlling the buildings in between.  

you cant look at a map and disqualify it because it favors one strategy over another. 

maps like tsunami depth charge have naval battles but its also crucial to expand to other islands and obtain other oils and ore.   

 

maps like divide and conquer, caverns siberia, dune patrol, blood feud  all have their own tank spammer type feel. the 4 player sized maps include the skill of expanding your base as the games go on.. 

maps like heartland, dry heat, golden state valley,  all pose tank spammer mentality with capturing and securing oils involved in game play

 

maps like stormy weather, south pacific, face down combine aspects of navy/ground attacks with capturing oils. 

 

i also included maps like hidden valley, reconcile, loaded barrel,   more campy type maps to display late game skills what to do in tier 3 battles...
 

 

 

all of the maps i listed are even to all factions.  you can win a game with any faction on any of the maps i listed. 

example maps i excluded and why they are excluded.

 

i see Hammer and sickle on your list, spot 1 hammer sickle has the most money of any spot on the map, also its way to advantageous to Allied faction for that a navy seal can blow bridges and contain the game to naval and supers.  on a map where you need to be in their base to attack the chronosphere gains too big of an edge.  as well as the allied navy force reigns supreme .. so by an allied player sealing bridges and controlling the waters. it will be a guaranteed slow death for the other factions.  maps like ocean side, el darado, and others with bridges that just defeat the idea of the term "quick match"   are reasons why i excluded.  

maps with lots of cliffs bridges but are strictly land maps favor yuri faction too much...  

 

maps with pure money advantages, such as country swing,  where top has almost 20k less money then bottom.   

i put alot of thought into all the maps i listed.     

 

 

if i was to revise the map list down even smaller i would go like this 

 

2 Player sized maps  (8)

alaskan oil spill

loaded barrel

reconcile

Dune Patrol

new heights

thin ice

hidden valley

pirate bay

 

4 player size maps with competiive spot choices  (7)

depth charge 2v4
divide and conquer 1v3

dry heat 2v4

offense defense 1v4

caverns of siberia 1v2

jungle of vietnam 2v3

south pacific 1v3

 

 

15 total maps and then take the others and infiltrate a new 1 or 2 every week

Now to discuss more of your points. I'm not disqualifying LPOD because it favors some strategy over the other, I'm disqualifying it because it's literally --> Get the airport --> Win the game. That's the epitome of shit map that people do not like to play competitively on. Also, the idea that it works for 'all factions' is absolutely insane. Yuri on LPOD will eat you alive. Likely a top 10 best map for yuri faction, which is saying a lot. It's also not too good for allies vs. sov, and almost impossible for allies if soviet gets the airport.

 

I like Tsunami/Depth and think they are an important piece in a QM map list. It's important to have diversity, which is why I make these topics in light of our current lackluster QM settings (all maps for Yuri faction warfare, meaning very little creativity). 

In terms of yuri warfare and your selected maps:

Alaskan Oil Spill, Loaded Barrell, New Heights, Depth Charge, South Pacific are all very bad to face yuri on. Very very bad. 

Some of the other newer ones for yuri warfare I can't comment on right now. 

[XXxPrePxX]

Also with respects to Hammer and Sickle, I disagree. I agree that Spot 1 has a slight advantage early game, but it becomes disadvantageous late game permitting supers are on. If supers are off -- then yes -- HnS is bogus. IF supers are on, all it takes it a timely placed nuclear missle on the seal by bridge, an engi, and your tanks are in winning the game. Iron curtain them for extra care. 

If done right, the left side on HnS can be highly advantageous to late game scenarios. 

Marko has really made a name for himself on maps like Hammer and Sickle and Lake Blitzen, proving that soviets with supers can match up with allied's there.

With that being said -- it is  better to make the spots top left vs. bottom right on hammer. There is an advantage to top right, I'm just arguing that it is not an automatic win scenario (like say, getting the airport on LPOD).

Edited October 26, 2017 by XXxPrePxX

[KinKys3x]

come play me on these maps prep? 

hammer..  ill show you how allied abuses bridges

and then you take yuri ill go allied on navy maps

Edited October 26, 2017 by KinKys3x

[XXxPrePxX]

Well, I can't now -- I'm away for a conference. However, I know a thing or two about hammer and abusing bridges... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsN9VOx3CeE

I've been using this strategy for 16 years+ :p. 

With that being said, with some skill it can be stopped. It's perhaps annoying for soviets to face this type of style, but isn't it in the best interest that we have a slight allied map once in a while in QM? Anyway, I'm not too interested in further debates on hammer and sickle as if it's too controversial, we have 50+ other maps to simply replace it with. 

As far as the maps I named from your collection: Loaded Barrel and New Heights are the absolute worst. No further conversation needed on those. South Pacific is very bad as well. The navy maps are more debatable when you consider AvY, but SvY it would be an absolute nightmare. AvY, still I lean towards yuri pretty hard due to early boomer rush, but more debatable. 

[Lucifer]

golden state valley could be an interesting yuri map i suspect. Never tried it though. 

 

as long as mags / yuri subs dont get outta control , the map should be o.k.   Apart from yuri being yuri and all. : ]

 

[KinKys3x]

how is loaded barrel and new heights the absolute worst?    its different game play then you ra2 tank spammers are used too?  

im confused how your opinion is always fact and why you even bother making a topic asking for opinions when your mind is already made up.  
just because you are incapable of playing different play styles doesn't mean others don't enjoy said maps. 

both these 2 maps have a different skills set to win on them then lets say one of your favorites like country swing.. where you robot build your way to victory..  refinery sell tank tank tank

this is the exact reason why quick match fails, the small select group of you just cater to your own play styles not considering that yuri has multiple styles of play, this is not ra2, its slower and has more units. 

[XXxPrePxX]

You are making a lot of false assumptions. Let me start out by analyzing the claim that Loaded Barrel and New Heights are extremely bad maps to play vs. yuri.

Both of these have great garrisionable structures near important parts of the map for Yuri to load up with iniatiates. This gurantees early game protection and late game land protection. Anytime you deal with the massively overpowered initiates in garrision structures = bad. Which is why the most balanced Yuri warfare maps almost never have any crucial buildings to garrision. 

Moving on, New Heights also has water, another crucial mistake in yuri warfare. Not only this, but this water is critical to the gameplay -- a quick early boomer rush (helped out with the initiates defending yuris base and the early gems + oil for eco) means the opponent will lose all of his/her critical oil derricks/garrision buildings / base in the first 3 minutes of any game there. 

The fact that you think this is a balanced map leads me to think you are incapable of understanding balances on other maps. That is how bad New Heights is here. 

On loaded barrel, yuri gets 4 oil derricks early, will have the initiates in buildings to protect, and will be able to use magnetrons to defend base due to cliff advtanges. Yuri can use brutes to ensure access to the airport+2 oil derricks in the corner, which means -- you guessed it -- more initiates for the 100's of garrisionable structures on the map. A yuri quickly teching to superweapons results in an easy win. I used to beat top players on WOL QM with yuri on this map (note: I was a shit newb during these first few months of the game). 

These maps are just obviously bad. Im not sure at all how you see these as balanced.

Don't get me wrong tho -- I love both maps AvS.

 

You continue to assume that I like tank-spammy maps, which is just wrong. Previously, I vouched for 10's of exotic and obscure maps to be put into QM on YR XWIS. I was the leader behind this movement. This QM renovation failed pretty hard (I think it was due to low activity and NOT the addition of maps) as it faced heavy criticism due to the increased map pool. By the way, Country Swing is one of my absolute worst maps. I *hate* getting matched on it, but I respect the map in that it is a decent map to play 1on1.

You have some comprehension issues, try to stick to cohesive arguments. I'm not blocking out any opinion here -- it's just you chose 2 incredibly bad maps there (to face yuri on) to defend. 

[XXxPrePxX]

17 minutes ago, Lucifer said:

golden state valley could be an interesting yuri map i suspect. Never tried it though. 

 

as long as mags / yuri subs dont get outta control , the map should be o.k.   Apart from yuri being yuri and all. : ]

 

That's a good suggestion. I'm looking at it now and I find no immediate problems with that map vs. Yuri. I don't see Yuri navy coming into play at all. Worth considering for a QM rotation of maps for Yuri play in the future. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by XXxPrePxX