C&C: Cold War

[AchromicWhite]

Sorry, just had a brain wave, I'm off to bed now, we'll continue this tomorrow though.

It's snowed here, so hopefully no work and a whole load of progress tomorrow

 

This setup is the extreme of having to build in a certain area to gain access to what you want.

Maybe even remove the radar for having the adv buildings and let the main trunk allow defensive tactics.

[Allen262]

I don’t see much of a point in an “Air Centerâ€. The Comm Center dose that quite well and since shroud re-grows on the map as a player I’m not going to even keep the Comm Center. The shroud will re-grow and cover any place I explore on the maps so why have the Comm Center take up the space and power? I’d sell it for the free space, power and I get 50% of the build price back. Same is true with the “Air Centerâ€.

[AchromicWhite]

You're right, well, ok, we can use the comm. center for the Air Center, and make sure the other buildings have healing use. If the MRLS IS to have mine laying capabilities then we will pretty much have to put in the service depot, just so it can reload... Perhaps the service depot can have extra healing capabilities, as the I was going to make the other 2 buildings (hospital and Adv. Factory) be pretty slow at healing units.

 

I am liking where I've just put the turret though, because it opens up a totally defensive tactic of refining and base building.

[Allen262]

The MLRS can't be a mine layer. If you give the mine layer a weapon each time it fire it take away one mine. When the mines run out it can no longer fire it main or 2st weapon if it has one.

 

The Cruiser and Missile Submarine have the same hard code thing like The Nuke Silo and E7 (Tanya/Commando). Building a Allied Tech or Soviet Tech give them both to the player. Adding Prerequisite=fcom won't stop it. I did get the Allies AI to build Flame Throwers [E4] by adding Owner=allies,soviet and DoubleOwned=yes to it. So it would be the inf to make in to a stinger.

 

EDIT:

 

Early buildings have a Prerequisite=PROC to keep the AI from spending all it money before it has a change to build a refinery.

 

To make a hospital heal you need to add Primary=Heal and GuardRange=2.50 to it it. Next [Heal] has to have a range of 2.50. Now the game will try to heal ANY unit that walks or drives buy. Once the unit is healed you have to move him away as the game will keep trying to heal the fully healed unit.

[AchromicWhite]

What you have there looks pretty good, I just want to stop you before you continue, make sure you put the Worded names for units on the cameos, so make the SU-25 just frogfoot, and for the mouse hover we'll put SU-25 Frogfoot, that way every unit wont just be a buch of numbers and letters.

 

I'm assuming you didn't turn on on transport chopper for Soviet, we will let them have those.

 

Does the hospital heal vehicles as well? I thought the "heal" weapon only fixed up infantry?

 

I was thinking of just using the regular PP from TD as the advanced.

 

I wouldn't worry about the PP switch, the nuclear plant is truly an advanced building now, mostly, people will just build the regular plants. So the fact that the computer will make more regular plants will, I think, be good for it, it'll also let the computer build out more towards ore as well.

 

Also, you've killed off the truck? You know that's going to be a handy early unit to have right? Remember the IFVs are what they say they are, they're primarily for helping to kill masses of infantry, the fact that they carry troops is secondary (well, they're both part of their roll), but my point is, if you can get them early, you'll just be able to rush into the enemy base... you know, like what used to happen (-.- bloody APC rush...)

[Allen262]

Well there goes allot of icon work...

 

Transport chopper not yet.

 

The game tries to heal tanks but it don' heal them. Every time a damage tank drive buy you can hear the heal sound but the tank is not healed.

 

Right now the TD Adv power plant is the Nuke plant in the [APWR] slot. This is just a strip down "Red Dawn". I removed the TS EVA, TD music, TD unit voices but for the Commando, TD side bars and All the TD videos. I plug you units into the need spots aside from the M60 Patton. It is trimmed down RA1 Med Tank that I used for "Red Dawn" before I got the TD one done.

 

If BMP-1 and B2 Bradley rushes worries you. They can be "Nurfed". Drop the Strength and push the cost up to as much as a M60/T72.

 

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah, but they're supposed to BE good, they're for killing infantry, though, in masses infantry will overcome them, which is another good reason to make sure they can carry troops. If you nurf them, men will rule the field, there will be no weakness to them except base defenses.

My point is, they're not just a way to carry men, which the truck is, AND the truck is light armour, so men can pick it off (meaning you can't just rush con yards with it, while still being able to deploy troops quickly across the field early int he game.

 

Remember, the IFVs will come once you build the Adv. factory.

 

Sorry about the cameos, because they do look great. But if you think about having a side bar with units that are just class coded, you'll basically need to either be an expert on military stuff, or look at the picture and try and figure out what it does.

Even for the mobile SAMs, I'd say put Gainful SAM etc, and for Bradley put

Bradley IFV, for Abrams, put Abrams MBT, etc, to help people see what they do, we'll put a readme with the mod that should be read through to help people to understand what everything does.

 

I'd completely forgotten you'd put in an EVA voice, maybe we should consider using it....

 

HAHA, music wise, I think I'll do some surveys and see which songs from the first 2 games people like the most, and maybe we'll find some new songs to put in as well, just to make a great package.

 

Oh, and in the case of the MRLS running out of ammo, that's fine. We'll leave it as it is then (no mines), we wont bother with a depot at all, we'll put wrench healing onto the Adv. Factory and small healing onto the helipad/airstrip (hopfully we can turn down the range so much that they can't heal things NEXT to them, but can heal things ON them).

[AchromicWhite]

Yup, the fixing helipad/airstrip work good, 0.5 range on the goodwrench works perfectly. The only thing I can say is that it keep doing the repair even once they're fixed, but meh.

[Allen262]

Yup, the fixing helipad/airstrip work good, 0.5 range on the goodwrench works perfectly. The only thing I can say is that it keep doing the repair even once they're fixed, but meh.

This drove me nuts. This is why I didn't use hospital in "Red Dawn".

 

Your worry about about SA-6/M48 is fixed. (I would like a M48 or I'll just keep using the C&C95 SSM Launcher for it) As for IFV and MBT most don't even know whay they mean.

[AchromicWhite]

wow, that's insanly fancy, slow down, I'm making a post on all the names for the icons and in game.

 

Also, we'll switch off the sounds so the units will just flash.

[AchromicWhite]

Thought I'd make a list of the names for the cameos so that I'm not just telling you're wrong, I feel bad that you did work that wont be used

 

 

NAME: COMEO NAME, MOUSE OVER NAME

 

For the truck I'm going to find something to make it similar to, so just hold off on it until I've decided which one I'm making.

 

Humvee: Humvee, HMMWV

Truck: Transport Truck

Artillery: Artillery, Mobile Artillery

MLRS: MLRS Rocket System, Multiple Launch Rocket System

Bradley: B2 Bradley, B2 Bradley

Abrams: M1A1 Abrams, M1A1 Abrams

M48 Chaparral mobile SAM: Chaparral, M48 Chaparral Mobile SAM

 

Apache Helicopter Gunship: Apache Gunship, AH-64 Apache Gunship

Chinook: Transport Chinook, CH-47 Chinook

A-10 Thunderbolt II: Thunderbolt II, A-10 Thunderbolt II

F15-F16: (TBD)

 

 

Jeep: Jeep, UAZ-469 Jeep

Truck: Transport Truck

Artillery: Artillery, Mobile Artillery

Scud: Scud Launcher, R-300 Elbrus Scud Launcher

BMP-2: BMP-2 IFV (yes "2" as that's the one which has an anti-infantry weapon, needed to correct myself there): BMP-2 IFV (make sure you get a picture of men getting out of it), BMP-2

T-72: T-72, T-72

T-80: T-80, T-80

SA-6 Gainful mobile SAM: Gainful, SA-6 Gainful Mobile SAM

 

Hind Helicopter Gunship: Hind Gunship, Mil Mi-24 Hind

Su-25 Frogfoot: Frogfoot, SU-25 Frogfoot

Mig: Mig Flogger Jet, Mikoyan MiG-27 Flogger

 

 

If you've made some stuff that's super similar to what's written, like, just Abrams for the Ambrams etc, then it should be fine, it's just so everything isn't by code.

[Allen262]

In my "reverse engineered" right now I have..

 

Icon says.

 

Vehicle

 

SCUD

Patton

T-72

Abrams

T-80

Gainful (has Anti-Air Symble)

Rocket Launcher (Is M270 MLRS. Icon is the one from TD)

Ore Truck (Is from RA1)

MCV (Is from RA1)

Humvee (Is from TD)

Bradley (Is renamed Light Tank)

mine layer (Is from RA1)

BMP-1

SAM Launcher (Is renamed SSM Launcher) (has Anti-Air Symble)

Jeep

Artillery

 

Ship

Are unchanged but for the HeliCarrer from "Red Dawn"

 

Infantry

Are mix of TD and RA1 icons

 

Aircraft

Warthog

Frogfoot

 

Buildings

Mixed TD and RA1 but for new ones that says "hospital" and "Satellite Center"

 

EDIT: There is no point to make any more aircraft. Badger bomber [bADR] and Spy photo-recon plane [u2] can not be selected. You can drag a box over them, click all over the planes but they are unselectable.

 

Do you have Red Dawn? If yes. I will finish rewriting the two game.exes and send you the whole thing I have in an install like Red Dawn has.

[AchromicWhite]

You might be quite right about MBT and IFV, perhaps if we just have pictures of the vehicles with men getting out and make sure we put what they shoot in the top right, they should be fine.

They don't usually show what the vehicles actually shoot, do they? maybe we should put that in, it'd make it easy for newbies to see what each thing has.

 

All those icons sound pretty darn good.

 

M72 chapparal

http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=m%2072%20chaparral&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2536l3078l1l3214l3l3l0l0l0l1l345l345l3-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1024&bih=605&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

 

I'll be building it off of the base of the MLRS, just putting the Chaparral system on the back.

 

[AchromicWhite]

Really, you can select them? I'm sure I've used them before... I've made the spy plane before, lol.

 

Tested... you're right, I must have just switched the SHPs sadness, I wanted to put some advanced bombers in.

Ok, then I'm down to the Chaparral and the truck I think...

[Allen262]

Yes I'm sure. I just check since I haven't check with 3.03 but it is the same. You can build them to sit on the Airstrip but they are unselectable.

[AchromicWhite]

Hey, how did you line up the missile launcher on the MLRS for Red Dawn? I'll be doing something similar with the SSM for the Chaparral, basically making an extra lot of missiles above the ones it has. As I don't really have another way to make it, I wanted to downsize the AAgun (to get the angle of the tubes for the missiles right) and then heavy edit it, but the downsizing just doesn't seem to work.

 

So unless you have another idea, could you make an SSM with the launcher locked in place? Then I can edit it from there. I remember having allot of trouble getting the missiles to line up on the Bradley body to make the Gainful.

[AchromicWhite]

Oh and where did you put the files for the SHPs in Red Dawn, I can't find them, I'm wanting to use the front of the humvee for the truck.

[Allen262]

With Red Dawn all the unit shps are in the conque!.mix.

 

HIRE!.mix has the icon and another copy of all the inf.

 

HIRE!1 has all the AfterMath icons.

 

EXPAN!.mix (CouterStike) and EXPAN!2.mix (AfterMath) have units .shps ant buildings and sounds.

 

loca!.mix has a copy of conquer.eng and  conque!.eng both files are also found in EXPAN!.mix and EXPAN!2.mix

 

In the conque!.mix you will find a SSM with the launcher locked in place named MRJ.shp and the MLRS is ARTY.shp has the launcher locked in place too.

[AchromicWhite]

Cheers, thanks. Jees, I'm having more trouble with this truck than I thought, and I know I've seen a good one in another mod, I'll see the maker will let us use it.

 

And then I'll get to work on the chaparral

[Allen262]

I found a fix since you want to use AfterMath units. It will let one use AF units with out having the AF disk. There is a few bugs to it but fixable.

 

Also are Tanks one shot one kill when firing on other tanks/APCs?

[AchromicWhite]

Sounds good, I really don't want to use ants unless I have to, especially that I pretty much have all units with full 32 frame turning.

 

  Tanks wont kill other tanks in one shot, and how fast they kill I think we'll deal with in balance.

  I was just thinking about the IFVs in that respect just a few seconds ago, I'm not sure, but I don't want the T-72 to be able to kill the Bradley in one shot.

I suspect the Abrams should really make mince meat out of the BMP-2.

Turrets will also be pretty darn deadly to anything on wheels.

  Again, I think we'll just have to try them out.

[Allen262]

Ants look fine. I'm using them for them Jeep, M48* and Arty. *I will convert the M48 when you have it done for you. I already have the rest done.

 

Tanks killing each other in 1 or even 3 shots is way to much. You get tank rushed. No defence you make can stop it.

 

A T-72 will "knock out" a M1A1 in real life. A hidden Iraqi T-72 hid from the M1s thermal camera by not running and waiting tell the M1 rolled right up to it. The hit rendered the M1A1 useless as the computer system of the M1A1 crashed. US crews repaired the tank when daylight came and sent it back to the rear for full repairs.

 

This T-72 was technologically inferior to that of a Russian T-72 and Iraqi T-72 could complely destroy a M2 Bradley in one hit and did.

 

Any IFV or APC is not going to take a hit from any MBT and survive.

 

Edit:

Maybe the best thing to do is to drop all the infantry types to Strength=25. Change the [M1Carbine] Warhead to HollowPoint. Do the same for any man packed guns. Change the [sA] Warhead for use on Jeeps to somthing like this.

 

; Large machine guns (50Cal/12.7mm) Armor-piercing rounds

[sA]

Spread=1

Verses=100%,50%,20%,10%,25%

Explosion=1

InfDeath=1

 

Basicly use HollowPoint for any guns that you want to do little or no damage to wood, light armor, heavy armor and concrete. SA will damage all armor types.

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah, I was going to work on the weapons something like that. There is a point to be seen here though, and that is that this was a special case scenario. Front armour on a M1A1 is pretty tough stuff. And the T-72 will be available early game, where the M1A1 will not.

 

Sorry, you said "too much" were you referring to armour or firepower?

Remember, tanks will easily get killed by lots of men, tank rush wil no longer really be an option unless someone else is IFV rushing you or something of the like. You could waste someone that tries to tank rush right rocket men, turrets, and even just regular men, I'm pretty much trying to take squashing out... well, you can still squash single men etc, but tanks rushing into squads should spell their doom. (this is why I was gonna put short range grenade launchers on men).

 

All of the warheads can be completely changed as to what they do damage to right? or is it not the case with "against infantry" which is why you're saying to use hollow point?

 

 

[Allen262]

Tank rushes work just fine. You get rushed and since the way I had it. It only took 3 hits to take out tanks and gun turrets, most of you force is wiped out and before you can rebuild again the AI will rush you again and your done. Infantry are killed by tank in one shot since they are so week. It make them useless.

 

For tanks maybe set them up like this. I haven't yet fully test to see if this helps so.

 

BMP-1 and M2 Bradly

Primary=75mm

Strength=250

Cost=800

 

M60 Patton

Primary=90mm

Strength=350

Cost=800

 

T-72

Primary=90mm

Strength=400

Cost=800

 

M1 Abrams

Primary=120mm

Strength=550

Cost=1000

 

T-80

Primary=105mm

Strength=500

Cost=900

 

Gun turret

Strength=500

 

Next I went to all the tank guns and TurretGun in the rules and added 30 more damage to what was stock was

 

[75mm]

Damage=75 ;was 25

 

[90mm]

Damage=80 ;was 30

 

; medium anti-armor cannon (T-80)

[105mm]

Damage=85 ;was 35

 

; large anti-armor cannon (M1 Abrams)

[120mm]

Damage=90 ;was 40

 

; Gun turret cannon

[TurretGun]

Damage=90 ;was 40

 

I also did the same thing to any weapon that fires on tanks. [Hellfire], [Dragon] and [Maverick]

 

This seem to make the tank take about 5 or 6 hit before they are destoyed. It better than the 12 to 14 seen in RA1.

 

I will explan the warheads below.

 

This is a M60mg for jeeps.

 

; vehicle mounted machine gun (.50cal/12.7mm)

[M60mg]

Damage=15 : We will be using this number alot.

ROF=20

Range=4

Projectile=Invisible

Speed=100

Warhead=SA

Report=PILLBOX1

Anim=MINIGUN

 

You can change the Warhead Characteristics but you can't add any new warhead. Same is true of Weapons and Projectile. Quoted out of the rules.

 

"Verses = damage value verses various armor types (as percentage of full damage)...-vs- none, wood (buildings), light armor, heavy armor, concrete"

 

So looking at my [sA] warhead Verses that is attched to M60mg

 

; Large machine guns (50Cal/12.7mm)

[sA]

Spread=1

Verses=100%,50%,20%,10%,25%

Explosion=1

InfDeath=1

 

The M60mg will do full damage to any thing with armor=none. (In this case 15 damage to any thing that has armor=none) Than 50% of 15 to armor=wood, 20% of 15 to armor=light, 10% of 15 to armor=heavy and 25% of 15 to concrete.

 

[hollowpoint] has Verses=100%,5%,5%,5%,5% it dose almost no damage to any thing but armor=none. armor=none is only used on Infantry.

 

The only warhed that is set to a unreal setting is the SA warhead. This is whay I said to set all the infantry packed guns to Warhead=hollowpoint This will free up [sA] warhead to be used on large caliber Armor-piercing machine guns.

 

[AchromicWhite]

Make tanks kill men in two. Sorry, I'd been over allot of this in my head and hadn't posted it, since I thought I was just gonna be doing it myself.

 

Each man represents 2, this sorts out the big issue that transport units carry so little guys. So, one man kills one man (because 2 guys shooting at 2 guys kills them both). A tank or a Jeep kills guys in 2 shots, and if we have further problems, we can look at the rate of fire of the anti infantry gun on tanks/Jeeps.

IFVs should probably still kill guys in 1 shot, and have a better rate of fire, but we may still need to address this as I've made a Bradley in the past that took out men like a long range flame tank.

 

Turrets should waste tanks, pump up the health, they're not supposed to be killed by tanks, but instead by mass troops, artillery or air power (and in the case of mass troops, while it would take a long time to kill the men (2 shots at a time, maybe even more), only rocket men or the grenades should be able to kill it, again, another reason for regular guys to have a built in grenade launcher). So the men can kill it IF they can get up close in mass... but usually someone would build a nearby tower or pillbox. To kill those you would need air power or artillery, if they had an AA gun you'd need a plane or artillery, and if they had Turret, Pill Box, SAM (Tower is supposed to be for sight, but if you against AI it's useless) then you'd need artillery. (and in this case you'd probably want advanced artillery, either the wide ranged scud or the rapid firing MLRS).

 

To deal with the the fact that buildings shouldn't be killed with small arms, I was going to pump up the health on them, even tanks should have trouble taking out buildings, it's not what they're for. Tanks are for killing vehicles, and that's all. BUT they do this REALLY well.

 

Prices you have there are crazy cheap for tanks. I'll work on this more once I get the Chaparral done.