Is the APC buggy all in unstoppable without cliff walls? (For GDI) + Other cheese issues

[chem]

1) How do you counter this rush if you are GDI

 

I tried it with a GDI pro and he was able to stop it via blocking with buildings cliffs and unit cluter and guard towers machine gun ones.  The  block basically stopped it, but he had cliffs to help the block without those cliffs does this rush become unstoppable? Or just another cheese that does not work vs someone really good?

I suppose a load of barracks and silos mixed in with your troops tanks and turrets will stop it?

 

 

2) 2nd cheese idea: The all in 4 heli rush with harvester  the counter is bazooka men and you can run them down with the harvester scout but then if they are good they will  scatter the bazooka men and destroy the harvester then destroy the helis, but I thought what if the helis attacked WHILE the bazookers were doging then they cant possibly shoot down the helis if they are dodging and shooting the harvester at the same time??

 

I suppose a load of barracks  refineries and helis all over the show will stop it but you have to be able to scout the harvester in time and build them in time which might not be the dominant position to be in to win otherwise you will have to build a different type of build and decide to do that before the game begins,?

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by chem

[chem]

3) Also is it possible (or probable) for nod to beat an engie rush without going 1 refinery? Against a good engie rush (mike pence) I find I cannot stop the engie rush with 2 refineries, with GDI you have the machine gun tower and the Humvee's instant spawn from the factory, and its more practical to build loads of troops in the types of numbers that can stop an APC rush .

 

Ferret was very kind to give me a tuition video on stopping the engie rush with GDI but it doesn't seem to work with nod unless I should place a turret instead? Ah that might work?

 

 

I think I have one of the best engie defences because I play mike pence all the time and hes always doing it but I cant defend it with nod with 2 refineries especially if im on the left side. Can you? If so how?

 

I suppose clustering might help? Making walls with silos and so on? Blocking?

 

 

4) Also will it ruin your economy if he decides 1 match to engie rush the next match to not engie rush and go 2 refineries or 3, and then next game engie rush again with 1 refinery and then you cant just defend as if he will send the engie rush because if you do he will build a better economy than you and win the long term game. (not his idea mine but now he knows it he can use it, ) So since your scouts can be blocked how do you resolve this problem? (it forces you to defend the engie rush all the time and he doesn't have to  he is free to engie rush or build a good economy for a late game advatage)

 

 

5) Is the game at some level broken and certain cheeses and clever tactics regarding multiple games in a row or map type with break the game  at least partially?

Edited January 7, 2019 by chem

[cn2mc]

If you think Pence is a good APC rusher, you're wrong.

[chem]

12 hours ago, cn2mc said:

If you think Pence is a good APC rusher, you're wrong.

I suppose there are levels to this but he does it over and over has got very fluid with it and few people can stop him even if they know its coming, he gets it in 80-90 % of the time vs the regulars,  I think that's at least good, but you could argue cheesing is easy anyway.

I sense you know better and know the difference between an elite engie user and mike pence, what is that difference?

Why do you think Pence is no good and how do you engie well? Ive seen ultra impressive engie use from you im glad to see some of the highest skilled players still use the frowned apon tactics , I loved your x2 apc rush in one of your games vs me that was epic,  and ive seen some epic engie Chinook use from Ferret after building a ton of orcas, even just targeting empty refineries a very unknown but effective method of borking someones economy.  

But also Pence uses some impressive tactics like sending in buggies and the apc at the same time from different sides so if you don't defend the buggies  they get an important building and if you split your forces to deal with both threats at the same time the engineer is more likely to get in  and the buggies have a number advantage vs half of your buggies, that kinda thing. That impresseses me.

 

What is impressive engie use to you? (ive seen the x2 apc in a row rush from you and the if you are behind send the engie apc to hopefully turn the game around again)

Edited January 8, 2019 by chem

[X3M]

He managed 5 out of 6 times with me though. 

[chem]

40 minutes ago, X3M said:

He managed 5 out of 6 times with me though. 

Yea takes a good deal of practice to stop him  he's a beast at it only a few people can stop him more than 50% of the time, and I ave to change my build order in order (to 1 refinery) to be able to do that ,  worst thing is hes got complex layers to his game if you protect  your conyard he will go for an airfield if you protect both of those a loaded refinery and failing getting a crucial building he will take any building he can and  build a hand of nod turrets more engies flamers, and send buggie reinforcements from his base and fight you in your base.

Ive never seen any1 play like pence.

Hes not the best guy around and I understand why hes not liked but when you sit across from him in a 1v1, you don't sit there in a relaxed state, he also terrorises the noobs and anyone that cant stop his rush.

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by chem

[cn2mc]

He might have improved his tactics since I last played him a few months ago, but back then I didn't see all that complex layering you're talking about, just a guy building a (not particularly) quick APC and sending it straight to my base. Switching to a secondary target if the CY is well defended is not high-end strategy, just common sense. 

If you're going for the rush, the APC needs to be hidden so the enemy doesn't even know it's coming. If you're APC rushing every game the enemy knows it's coming and you'll need a screen. There are a few things you can do to hide your APC. For starters, move it out of your base immediately upon construction and load the engi in somewhere out of your opponent's sight so he doesn't know if you've built it yet or where it might come from. Try to move the APC through areas of the map, which the enemy hasn't scouted or doesn't monitor that closely for the same reasons. Harass your opponent with other units BEFORE you bring in the APC, so you can draw defenders away from the target. The last part is a bit tricky because for speed's sake you want your APC to be your first factory unit and you don't yet have buggies or hummers out. You can use infantry and helis. A single helipad and some heli harassment immediately after you put your WF/strip down can throw your opponent off considerably. The beauty of it is that the pad will be done even before the APC is ready.