Ford (retired) Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hey guys I am wondering what are the biggest or most common concerns with Yuris Revenge? Mine are, Boomer Subs are crazy strong considering they don't need a battlelab Garrison Initiates are too powerful (Even one in a building is powerful) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I feel like the soviets are too weak in general. Like their best units have such a short window of actual use, and there are too many cheesy exploits both yuri and the allies can use against them really easily (allies the battle fortress with guardians, actually OP against everything, yuri just generally mindcontrolling stuff messes you up bad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 A lot depends on the map and other factors. But i think the balance between Sovs and Allies is quite good. Better than Ra2 imo where i think sovs>allies more so. Yuri is op and always has been in most peoples opinions. But to a certain extent sw counter and allies in long game have more of an edge vs yuri than sovs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford (retired) Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 I feel like the soviets are too weak in general. Like their best units have such a short window of actual use, and there are too many cheesy exploits both yuri and the allies can use against them really easily (allies the battle fortress with guardians, actually OP against everything, yuri just generally mindcontrolling stuff messes you up bad) I agree. I'm working on some changes to units that are considered trash or only viable against casuals. Maybe we can play and do some testing once I feel good about the changes. (I'll post them later) Some cool Soviet things you can try is Terror Drone + Desolators vs Yuri as Yuri has no way to repair units, and Desolators will Melt Gattling Tanks/ Lashers that try to take out the Terror Drones. It's kinda lame though as other units have a harder time. Another cool strategy is Flak Track, Ivan plus conscripts/Terrorists. Heres what you do: Place bomb on conscripts and load them up into the Flak Track, they won't explode until they exit the vehicle so if you escort your Flak Track next to valuable buildings....BOOM!!! Can even kill a conyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 yeah I knew about the crazy ivan bomb stuff. Also yuri has a really easy way of countering desolators I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Desolator is key for sov vs yuri. Unless you are a lot more skilled than the yuri player you can forgot about beating him with soviets without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55aa Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 While I'm not quite certain it could be called a "balance issue" (especially that it affects everyone just the same), I find it rather pointless that the F5-F8 "taunts" (which are actually messages intended for your teammates) are just being broadcast to everyone. I mean, what use is it to e.g. ask an ally to distract an enemy, if the enemies themselves hear the message too? Also, apparenty it's been an issue since RA2 actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford (retired) Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'm planning on making some standard maps, with modded rules for increase diversity for unwhelming units without nerfing core strategies ppl know. Such examples include, robot tanks, Terrorists, Demo trucks, Tank destroyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 from a top tier level of playing, there is no real imbalance. I will explain if you care to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 from a top tier level of playing, there is no real imbalance. I will explain if you care to know. I think thats still an opinion no matter how logically you explain it. As i'm sure you know, there was a general consensus years ago (even amongst the pro's) that yuri was over powered, especially against sovs and on the majority of maps. There were some exceptions but the majority agreed. I don't think it is as much of an imbalance as everyone makes out, but a few tweaks are needed imo. The maps were partly addressed in the YR QM renovation on XWIS but obviously the profiles of any of the units weren't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 pro vs pro I would take sovs with supers over yuri and win a majority of the games no matter what map. im also an allied player as you know. what people don't know is what warrants them thinking imbalance, it's simply not true. it's just they aren't expanding their minds to the full extent of what could be done. most people don't utilize all their units available and only use the common core units. in a sov vs yuri game, I bet you make more than 4 rhino tanks wouldn't you? if the answer is yes, that's why you think the game is imbalanced. choppers > yuri robot tanks > yuri subs > boomer destroyer > boomer supers weapons allied + sov > yuri super weapons the only true advantage yuri has is the ability of making unlimited cash towards later game with grinding. easy to stop if you are pressing constantly and using super weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 pro vs pro I would take sovs with supers over yuri and win a majority of the games no matter what map. im also an allied player as you know. what people don't know is what warrants them thinking imbalance, it's simply not true. it's just they aren't expanding their minds to the full extent of what could be done. most people don't utilize all their units available and only use the common core units. in a sov vs yuri game, I bet you make more than 4 rhino tanks wouldn't you? if the answer is yes, that's why you think the game is imbalanced. choppers > yuri robot tanks > yuri subs > boomer destroyer > boomer supers weapons allied + sov > yuri super weapons the only true advantage yuri has is the ability of making unlimited cash towards later game with grinding. easy to stop if you are pressing constantly and using super weapons. I don't really want to get into a long debate right now but i'm sure you know there's more to it then that, but just quickly on the points you raised: 1 Gat (cheap) > 1 chopper (expensive) Robot tanks are good yes but are weak as fuck I remember a topic solely on how op' boomers were. Yes subs and dest are good counters but for the same price as a dred/ aircraft carrier, yuri has the same but also the ability to attack naval units, and at a much earlier stage in the tech tree. For that reason imo it should cost more, or be moved further down the tech tree. Im not sure i agree with you that allies superweapons > yuri. Genetic mutator= infinite money and dominator does similar damage as weather storm but also takes over units. The iron curtain is obviously crucial for sovs vs yuri. That one advantage you speak of is quite a big one imo, especially on a map with limited resources where yuri can just camp as needed. Its near impossible to press on certain maps were yuri can just camp without needing to expose himself to get to ore fields- I have personally been involved in 'quick' match games running 1 hour + as it was near impossible to break a yuri camp down in certain cases. I would also take sov, but that is because i haven't mastered yuri. I think if you took players of equal level of skill (for all factions- hard to come by), more often then not yuri would come out on top. A lot of good yuri players were bang average or certainly not as good with the other factions. I know most people have a favoured faction but yuri players struggled to adapt for a reason. There were some fairly well thought out topics and posts from ST put forward back in the day, maybe i'll dig out at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I find using sovs against yuri (even with desolators) is just plain stupid, because the soviet way to do stuff is to brute force in peoples faces, except if you do that vs Yuri, you die. Your only chances to do anything is really via terror drones, choppers and desolators, but they all get completely wiped out by gattling tanks. Allies have a much better chance because they actually have a decent ranged unit (2 if you go as GB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I find using sovs against yuri (even with desolators) is just plain stupid, because the soviet way to do stuff is to brute force in peoples faces, except if you do that vs Yuri, you die. Your only chances to do anything is really via terror drones, choppers and desolators, but they all get completely wiped out by gattling tanks. Allies have a much better chance because they actually have a decent ranged unit (2 if you go as GB) +virus and/or mind control This is why the iron curtain is crucial, but even then as i pointed out i think yuri is op against sovs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 im just saying, we can debate this all day long I will take your best yuri player vs my sovs, with super weapons on, i'll win more than 75% of games, regardless the maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plokite_Wolf Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 subs > boomer destroyer > boomer Maybe in a 1-on-1, but Boomers only need a Psychic Radar and can fire only-slightly-weaker-than-Dreadnought's missiles to land. Fast win = EZ PZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 make air defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford (retired) Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 The issues I have with the balance are that certain country units get sidelined by Desolators on the soviet side, and the soviets arsenal is limited. Please tell me a top tier game where sovs weren't Iraq, and they actually used tesla troopers in their tank mix. The issue isn't the amount of faction use, the issue is the unit viability. V3's suck, Robot Tanks are weak, Tesla Troopers too slow and bad range, Tank Destroyers are sluggish, slow, and lose Tank battles anyways. No one uses Crazy Ivans competitively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 The issues I have with the balance are that certain country units get sidelined by Desolators on the soviet side, and the soviets arsenal is limited. Please tell me a top tier game where sovs weren't Iraq, and they actually used tesla troopers in their tank mix. The issue isn't the amount of faction use, the issue is the unit viability. V3's suck, Robot Tanks are weak, Tesla Troopers too slow and bad range, Tank Destroyers are sluggish, slow, and lose Tank battles anyways. No one uses Crazy Ivans competitively. V3's and crazy Ivan's are used quite often in top tier games and on certain maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devole Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 The issues I have with the balance are that certain country units get sidelined by Desolators on the soviet side, and the soviets arsenal is limited. Please tell me a top tier game where sovs weren't Iraq, and they actually used tesla troopers in their tank mix. The issue isn't the amount of faction use, the issue is the unit viability. V3's suck, Robot Tanks are weak, Tesla Troopers too slow and bad range, Tank Destroyers are sluggish, slow, and lose Tank battles anyways. No one uses Crazy Ivans competitively. V3's and crazy Ivan's are used quite often in top tier games and on certain maps. I can't disagree with Hardman. So far, every game I've won has been me: 1) get spy into lab 2) Chrono Ivans 3) ???? 4) Profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 i'm aware im making this sound easier then it is I suppose. vs yuri i'll seldom use desos so the faction doesn't matter to me. I'm an allied player by proxy, it's just not as hard to compete with allieds in YR (being probably the strongest team) however like I said, I could easily show anyone here what I mean. that being said look for my vids, I plan on doing some for grant soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Unfortunately I don't think there are any 'pro' yuri faction players left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I know a few that will record games with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardman Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Gl then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ore_truck Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 War Miner rush against Yuri!!!! And pray they dont have tank bunkers. If you encounter lasher tanks, use drones to get them while your miners distracts them. Ore Trucks rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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