Why did Mr Buggies rely on buggies so much the better I get the less I use them

[chem]

But he was better than me and 99% if not 100% of people.

So maybe he is on another level of thinking.

The more I play the more I find buggies are worthless alone in large numbers (and humvees) and you are better off building a mix of units or tanking. 

Its seems these days the less buggies I build the more effective I am. (the complete opposite of my greener days)

Yet he relied on them so much he even named himself mr buggies. He rarely if ever played a game without them.

Is it because the low money maps which were also open made buggies more potent ? (it seems they suck because the counter of tanks turrets, flammers etc just reduce buugies to dust (while remaining themselves) and then you just wasted a ton of money on buggies and you have nothing the extra mobility doesn't count for jack they are base creeping and securing the tiberium fields that way with tanks hons and turrets)

 

 

It just seems with good defence buggies are worthless die fast and then theres a massive hole in both your defence and offence when they are gone and you become very  vulnerable

Edited January 7, 2019 by chem

[chem]

He always used to make 2 teams of buggies and then creep towards your base then fighting you with turrets and hon while harassing you from 2 sides at the same time with buggies before and during the fast early creep .  Does that method of "rushing" change the dynamic somehow?

I their potency their ability to be built so fast so early?  Am I right in presuming if you can back that speed up with a base creep THEN they become effective again?  But not wo a base creep?

(Is that why cnmc tried to deny the early base creep in his maps? Often in his and whites maps don't make the base creep immediately available for offence like it is on green acres for example)

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by chem

[X3M]

I never met the guy. But I played many times with buggies only.
Of course on normal maps.

When the GDI player pops out 1 tank, a NOD player can have 3 buggies.
Your goal is not the tank, but the factory instead.

3 tanks or 8 buggies. Who would destroy a base first?
Of course, bikes are better against tanks. But if you swarm 1 tank with 8 buggies, the tank is dead. Very, very, dead.

Also, buggies are good against infantry and guard towers.
Not advanced guard towers. You need to find your GDI opponent first, before adv. guard pop up.

Also, buggies don't do splash damage. You can wall in an harvester that is busy with only 8 buggies. And the damage of the buggies are higher than 5 bikes I think.

If you play against NOD. You need to keep your guard up. But also keep attacking with buggies. Those enemy bikes are nothing to buggies.

[AchromicWhite]

In smaller numbers, even tanks don't trade super well vs buggies. They're OP AF, that's why he used them.
A few bikes and flamer men to go with... turrets on the front line? What's GDI even meant to do?

[cn2mc]

Have you ever even played against MrBuggy or are you just making things up and repeating hearsay? It seems to me like the latter.

The answer is: he's just better.

[chem]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 10:59 PM, cn2mc said:

Have you ever even played against MrBuggy or are you just making things up and repeating hearsay? It seems to me like the latter.

The answer is: he's just better.

yes many times some close games (and many 1 sided beat downs in his favour) at least a guy called mr buggies/piv/bike666) and yes he is better, what makes you think I hadn't played him?

Edited January 9, 2019 by chem

[chem]

13 hours ago, AchromicWhite said:

In smaller numbers, even tanks don't trade super well vs buggies. They're OP AF, that's why he used them.
A few bikes and flamer men to go with... turrets on the front line? What's GDI even meant to do?

How did Lovehandles beat him? You seen the vid? He had lots of cliffs not sure if that was a big factor or not. knowing Love not.

Edited January 8, 2019 by chem

[AchromicWhite]

Well, he used a lot of buggies, but most Nod players do. As I said, he used them because they were good. But he also used right about everything else.

[cn2mc]

Love beat him by playing a flawless GDI, not losing his WF or a single tank in that game, IIRC. Cliffs played a factor, you see Love reacting to the first attack and, after some slight hesitation, placing his WF in the back. Had he placed it out, where he wanted to, he might have been in big trouble. 

I asked that question because in your first post you made some assumptions about MrBuggy's style that I don't think correspond to the way he actually plays. For starters, he never uses buggies only, but a mix. There's also a huge difference in how he uses his buggies and bikes compared to what most players nowadays do. Since you've played him, you've surely noticed he doesn't pile a dozen or so units and then attack en masse, which would give the other player time to set up a defence. Instead, he immediately starts harassing with his light units wherever he can find a weak spot and he steadily ramps the pressure up by bringing in more one by one, very much like shifting tanks, only he tries different angles and eventually splits his forces when he has enough units to do so. Indeed, backed up by a base creep and maybe an apache, this can become almost unbearable. The thing is, he plays good and applies a lot of pressure even when he can't base-creep. The effectiveness of his buggies is down to his good control: not doing mass suicide attacks and bad trades, pulling out of dangerous engagements, always keeping them on the move and attacking something, etc.

About the mapmaking thing, I never sought to limit base-creeping intentionally in my maps, much less in order to inhibit someone's style of play. In fact, you can and have to base creep on pretty much every map I've released with maybe an exception or two. The longer creeping distances and less direct paths between opponents are a product of my desire to make the maps feel larger and be more hospitable for longer 1v1 games.

[chem]

1 hour ago, cn2mc said:

Love beat him by playing a flawless GDI, not losing his WF or a single tank in that game, IIRC. Cliffs played a factor, you see Love reacting to the first attack and, after some slight hesitation, placing his WF in the back. Had he placed it out, where he wanted to, he might have been in big trouble. 

I asked that question because in your first post you made some assumptions about MrBuggy's style that I don't think correspond to the way he actually plays. For starters, he never uses buggies only, but a mix. There's also a huge difference in how he uses his buggies and bikes compared to what most players nowadays do. Since you've played him, you've surely noticed he doesn't pile a dozen or so units and then attack en masse, which would give the other player time to set up a defence. Instead, he immediately starts harassing with his light units wherever he can find a weak spot and he steadily ramps the pressure up by bringing in more one by one, very much like shifting tanks, only he tries different angles and eventually splits his forces when he has enough units to do so. Indeed, backed up by a base creep and maybe an apache, this can become almost unbearable. The thing is, he plays good and applies a lot of pressure even when he can't base-creep. The effectiveness of his buggies is down to his good control: not doing mass suicide attacks and bad trades, pulling out of dangerous engagements, always keeping them on the move and attacking something, etc.

About the mapmaking thing, I never sought to limit base-creeping intentionally in my maps, much less in order to inhibit someone's style of play. In fact, you can and have to base creep on pretty much every map I've released with maybe an exception or two. The longer creeping distances and less direct paths between opponents are a product of my desire to make the maps feel larger and be more hospitable for longer 1v1 games.

Wow thank you so much incredible the depth he is playing at and your knowledge is incredible,  this game is so awesome, there's such a long way to climb before you reach optimal effectiveness, this is a deep game.

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by chem

[chem]

4 hours ago, AchromicWhite said:

Well, he used a lot of buggies, but most Nod players do. As I said, he used them because they were good. But he also used right about everything else.

Did he? I never saw him go above basic tech, base creep with refineries power and hon, , a few flamers , lots of  buggies an odd bike, limited refineries 3 usually, ive been told occasionally 1 helicopter ?

I played him quite a few games. Never saw any tech or any kind or late game economy. Very little variation he built 2 airfields if he was on a map that didn't allow base creeping.

 

His late game economy seemed so poor he didn't even fluidly build buggies later on,, he was all about early game and instead of using the starting cash for refineries for later he used it for the creep and the buggies early.  He didn't even go 2 refineries just 1, and yet he beat everyone or almost every1

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by chem

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I remember of MrBuggy.
Is there a video of this match? I wouldn't mind having a look, if it's around.

The only other thing I'd add is that he usually expanded directly towards an opponent if he could (certainly vs GDI) and would use front line HoN and Turrets to good effect.

[X3M]

Where is he anyway? I never met him. But his name goes on for years.

[chem]

4 hours ago, X3M said:

Where is he anyway? I never met him. But his name goes on for years.

Legends Never Die.

He retired and went down in the list of undisputed Cnc1 heavyweight champions, only a select elite make it to that list. Its not just the top 10 current players its the best of all time the best of each era

Edited January 8, 2019 by chem

[chem]

2 hours ago, AchromicWhite said:

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I remember of MrBuggy.
Is there a video of this match? I wouldn't mind having a look, if it's around.

The only other thing I'd add is that he usually expanded directly towards an opponent if he could (certainly vs GDI) and would use front line HoN and Turrets to good effect.

 

 

Thanks, here you go,

https://youtu.be/MmSVDty-Ivo

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by chem

[AchromicWhite]

He actually changed his name a LOT.
Bike, BMP
He could turn up, and we wouldn't know unless we played him.

[AchromicWhite]

He'd tech if the game went longer and you turtle up. 
Just move into SSM and chip you down.

The units he didn't really use were flame tank and light tank. And Stealth, obviously.
So tanks, I guess. He seemed to fill that void with turrets.
On different maps, IDK if that might change. (if he can't creep, and needed armour).

Edited January 9, 2019 by AchromicWhite