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Pre-game 'Veteran Upgrade' option suggestion @Th3Funk


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Issue: The veteran upgrade options in tiberian sun were basically disabled by westwood (rushed by EA most likely).  The way it is now, units must kill 10x their value to get one upgrade, and another 10x their value to get the final upgrade (star status).


Some units have upgrades and some are simply blank.  In no way is it possible to actually get star units in any type of real game, without sacrificing about 20 of your own Refinerys, or the instances in which one infantry gets credit for killing a main building (in which the infantry has worthless upgrades anyways).


I have created a veteran upgrade patch that changes this to 3x (times two, so 6x value of unit to get a star), and also has very fair and balanced veteran upgrades for ALL units, that actually make sense in real game play.  GDi/NOD upgrades are EXTREMELY balanced, having equal upgrades, for example bombers/banshees get same upgrade, etc.


I have tested with with a wide array of players (from new players, to veteran modders to oldschool WOL players to newschool XWIS players) and had nothing but positive feedback (even from extremely picky individuals).


I have tried putting these sun.ini settings into map files, but the issue is that a lot of units are hard coded, like MK, CC, Flamer, Stalker, Etc. (All the units that anyone would actually try to upgrade / save in real games).


All that would be required for me to be able to properly release this *optional* patch (that I have spent a lot of time on, and spent numerous hours fine-tuning based on tons of player feedback), is for the host to be able to designate a 'sun.ini' file to be applied to that specific game, OR a check box "Veteran Upgrades" that does this while checked.


If they replace their sun.ini with the veteran upgrade version, ALL units upgrade properly.  It is only broke when trying to put the settings into a map, in which only about 2/3 of units upgrade properly.  Having players manually backup/replace their sun.ini before/after each game is simply not feasible and honestly a very miserable experience to attempt.




So, what I am suggesting/asking for is a 'Veteran Upgrade' check box that temporarely replaces sun.ini with the veteran upgrade version sun.ini




ability for host to designate which sun.ini they want to launch the game with.


I personally prefer the 'Veteran Upgrade" checkbox, but keeping many modders in mind, it may be beneficial to allow them to test mods with other players 'on-the-fly' this way.



Pretty please consider <3  (I am willing to donate for this option, not that I think you want it, but I am willing)

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Sounds great but I have two questions. Would bombers and banshees not become to powerful in long games? Wouldn't it mean that whoever gets an upgraded MK first on a map like terrace is pretty much guaranteed a win? The second question really applies to high level games.

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I have tested this in real, high level games, with top players, and it is actually quite hard to upgrade units, even with the modifications. 


Mk would have to kill 3x it's value without dying (and without them selling said buildings) to get its first minimal upgrade, then another 3x its value to get full upgrade.


Since the more powerful units are rather expensive, the ratios seem to balance this out.


Also, the upgrades are minimal, for example banshees and bombers get 25% increase in ammo power, but it is not easy to get this amount of kill value while also saving the unit.


Plus. this would not be forced, and would be an option, like 'Aimable Sams', that people could decide whether they want to play with it or not.


Personally, I think it is really fun trying to save units (even though its hard to do!)


Imagine if the only unit you had left was one carryall / mk or one sub / cc.  How fun it would be to try and save that unit and get those upgrades.


In real games it is not so easy as one might think to continually save units, and rack up such an amount of kills, especially when taking into account buildings being sold and not blown up, or how many times the average 'pro' player looses their mk to some mis-click.


Plus, the more effort spent saving units, is less effort on controling harvs, building, defending, etc.


This would also require constantly repairing units so they go back into battle full health.


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Did you know buggy by default right now, upgrades to 'can squish' and bikes upgrade to 'get mlrs missle' and disruptor upgrades to 'exploids when dies' :)


If you didn't then that shows how impossible it is to get upgrades with 10x (x2) value required! lol

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a tremendous idea and it would make game play much more interesting with giving an advantage for superior micro skills!


I will agree with SAS-olliegator. This would be allot of fun to play with and would add some new interesting dynamics to the game as long as it is optional in game lobby. SAS-olliegator learn how to make sams in game, SAS-olliegator stop swarming and infesting all 8er games like other SAS clan members always do. It is so annoying. ROFL! :laugh: SAS-Humble we all know you are the sole clan leader of SAS clan, stop denying it..

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Are you sure it doesn't work via map edits? Might be the best to find out why it doesn't work via maps and fix it there.


And why are you talking about sun.ini? I think you meant rules.ini maybe?


Yes, rules.ini, thank you for correcting me. 


Others and myself have not been able to get unit upgrades for mentioned units to work by any means.  Even pasting entire rules.ini into map file still won't result in upgrading those units.  Any ideas?


(They all work perfectly when editing the rules.ini itself)

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