Naval units revamp

[MapDesigner]

Hello,

 

After playing the game for a while, there 2 things attract my attention

 

1-) why is there no country with naval unit specialties? Maybe some unique ship. Weather its soviets or allies or both.

 

2-) why is there no gattling cannon ship for yuri? Isnt 2 ships seems a bit too limited 

 

Is there a mod that does such a think and is appealing? What happens if a spy somehow became amphibious and entered shipyard, or maybe the shipyard was too close to the shore such that infantry units can enter it (engs and spies)? Does a new ship become available?

Edited September 13, 2017 by MapDesigner

[Ezer_2000]

8 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

Hello,

 

After playing the game for a while, there 2 things attract my attention

 

1-) why is there no country with naval unit specialties? Maybe some unique ship. Weather its soviets or allies or both.

 

2-) why is there no gattling cannon ship for yuri? Isnt 2 ships seems a bit too limited 

 

Is there a mod that does such a think and is appealing? What happens if a spy somehow became amphibious and entered shipyard, or maybe the shipyard was too close to the shore such that infantry units can enter it (engs and spies)? Does a new ship become available?

1. Not all maps presume naval battles.
2. For better balance, full explainiation will be complicated, so only facts: boomers available earlier than another long-range ships in game, yuri can use disks as antiair.

And in this game balance between different sides is unsymmetrical. You cant compare one unit from one side with another "similar" unit from another side(exept low-tech). They are not  similar at all. But you can find a counter-unit, which will have another counter-unit, etc.

[MapDesigner]

It is straightforward to work around maps with no naval availability; just like how naval shipyard is unbuildable on some maps, that particular country could be unselectable and un-randomable in such maps.

 

It can also be used if some wanted a basic faction match up with no special units at all (i.e. that faction doesnt have to unselectable in such maps)

 

Edit what if yuri had boomers early? They are still slow to build. If you are concerned about yuri being op, maybe that ship should have 1 gattling cannon and not 2 and doing half damage or anything that is significantly lower. Basically being similar to flak ship

 

Well i dont want to get into you cant compare arguments. The reason why we compare things is becuz they are different and we want to illustrate differences.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by MapDesigner

[ore_truck]

1.  If a country has unique navy, it will only be used on naval-major map. Most of the maps it will be useless, while on naval maps, everyone will be using it and there is no variety in nations for naval maps.

2. Because Yuri doesn't need a gatling ship. Cloaking underwater is already a good defense against aircraft. If you need anti air at water, get floating discs. 

 

 

20 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

What happens if a spy somehow became amphibious and entered shipyard, or maybe the shipyard was too close to the shore such that infantry units can enter it (engs and spies)? Does a new ship become available?

No.

Edited September 14, 2017 by ore_truck

[MapDesigner]

3 hours ago, ore_truck said:

1.  If a country has unique navy, it will only be used on naval-major map. Most of the maps it will be useless, while on naval maps, everyone will be using it and there is no variety in nations for naval maps.

2. Because Yuri doesn't need a gatling ship. Cloaking underwater is already a good defense against aircraft. If you need anti air at water, get floating discs. 

 

 

No.

well it dosnt have to be something too OP. something like  a wider transport or maybe a transport with a little more HP, or maybe for soviets, a ship  (more or less like destroyer), wouldnt be OP, and USA or korea could be chosen over it.

 

2.) even it isnt really needed, it just seem a good design, and they can be used to escort transports. floating discs might not be the best escort to transport (couple of scorpion and they will be down)

 

I tried sending a spy and an engineer into shipyard, and I couldnt. I did make the shipyard inside the land and it was still of no use.

[XXxPrePxX]

Hi MapDesigner, I like your enthusiasm for interesting additions in the game and curious concern over balance. I will try to answer your two questions.

 

First, the reason why no team has a naval specialty unit is because it would be worthless compared to other units and also would throw off balance (potentially). First, no one would pick it on 95% of the maps, but then on maps like Depth Charge which is almost strictly naval based, it would give an unfair advantage to said team. I think this is pretty clear to see.

Maybe your argument may be that there should be special units added for every team that are naval based, however, this is very challenging to do from a balance perspective. I don't think Ra2/YR was meant to be very 'difficult' to grasp, and adding this would really screw up one part of the game that I feel is really well done -- the navy balance. More on that at the end of my post here.

Second, the fact that yuri does not have an aint-air naval component has always stumped me as well. Yuri's naval is very basic, but it is a game changer. The reason yuri shouldn't have an aint-air component is simply because Yuri's navy is ridiculously overpowered. So much so, that in ranked, competitive games, Yuri is almost universally not allowed to participate (it's been banned on ranked games for over 10 years). The fact is that yuri can get boomers after a psychic sensor, which is significantly faster then it's soviet and allied counterparts (dred/aircraft after tech lab) and this allows yuri to rush the opponent on any naval map. The unfair thing about this is that Yuri's boomers go unseen, meaning there is really no reasonable defense against the unit. A soviet/allied player needs to have pre-emptive anti-air units/buildings (which cost way more money then the boomer, and rarely work perfectly against unseen attack angle), AND needs to have some naval units to stop the boomer, where as the yuri player can have the $2000 boomer out early and attack one building and then the game is over.  Giving the yuri player anti-air naval units on top of this would simply push the boundary here.

 

The naval element between soviets and allied forces is one of the more beautiful aspects in this game. The goal for soviets on naval maps would be to amass a large amount of submarines which are extremely powerful, but slow, and methodically take out the allied players naval before the allied player can adequately tech up and a mass a flow of dolphins which are much faster and can own the water late games. This is truly a beautiful dynamic, on a map like Beach Frontier, it is simple for a soviet player to own the water as it is linear, but on a map like depth charge it is incredibly difficult.

 

EDIT: Note, when I say yuri is banned from competitive play, I mean that yuri on water/naval maps has been banned from competitive play, NOT the yuri faction entirely.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by XXxPrePxX
Clarification

[ore_truck]

1) You want a naval-based country special unit but to answer your question about why no countries have naval special units is because no one at the development team wants that. Let's say they put in a naval-based country unit, then what? People are gonna ask why are there no country with ore-mining special, or superweapon special country, etc. I'm not saying naval  country unit is bad,  it's just that it is not needed, implementing it just for fun like you suggested isn't a good enough reason because there are plenty more nation unit that can be implemented for fun besides naval unit.

2) While it is possible the game can be much more fun by implementing an additional naval class for Yuri (more type of unit = more fun), it just comes down to personal preference whether Yuri should have it or not since the faction doesn't need that.

You can't send a spy into a shipyard in normal game.