Computer player CHEATS?!

[EugEnO]

Hey guys.

I'm wondering if the AI cheats in campaign game. Playing Allied game now, the level in snow where you start with half destroyed base and need to build it up, and defend the chronosphere that's already there, in which there is some vital experiment taking place. I was shocked to learn that I could destroy every ore truck of the AI enemy, but they keep and keep building new ones, as if they never run out of cash. I think it happens in other levels too. Seems like they get cash sneakily from elsewhere and thus unfair lol. Any thoughts?

[X3M]

They will even get reinforcements when you destroyed their entire base. It isn't cheating, it is how the AI is build. Think of it as if they have a base that you can't reach. Yet they can reach you.

Many AI from old games have this.

The fairest one so far would be the AI in Warcraft 2.

[TaxOwlbear]

3 hours ago, X3M said:

The fairest one so far would be the AI in Warcraft 2.

Which is also why it's rubbish.

[EugEnO]

I honestly think the difficulty variation in this game has a really strange pattern. Usually (especially in old school games of that time) a game's difficulty is easy and gradually increases with each next level, often being the ultimate test of your gaming skill in the final level. Here though, you get a nightmare level followed by something like the level where your base is on an island, tons of ore and cash and enemy never even attacks - in other words super hard followed by super easy. Lol unless they did it on purpose, or didn't plan too far as to difficulty variation.

The snow level I mentioned - the only way I finished it was using mine layers to constantly lay mines, replace them, else the huge vehicle troops take you out. I even played on slow-mo as this level throws all that at you every minute.

[Lightning Hunter]

3 hours ago, X3M said:

They will even get reinforcements when you destroyed their entire base. It isn't cheating, it is how the AI is build. Think of it as if they have a base that you can't reach. Yet they can reach you.

Many AI from old games have this.

The fairest one so far would be the AI in Warcraft 2.

You could argue that the AI in Warcraft 2 cheats as well. Although they don't blatantly cheat, they can simultaneously control multiple mages at the same time, which is not humanly possible.

Of course, the AI has weaknesses like any AI. I would not call the AI in War2 rubbish though; you just have to give them good conditions, or they have a bug where they give up and stop building. If you give them plenty of space to build and plenty of resources, they can do rather well. Try taking on 2-3 AI opponents sometime in War2 in the right map and see what happens.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Lightning Hunter

[X3M]

@TaxOwlbear
You have not played my maps yet.
Where the AI doesn't have path finding problems.
Also, try to deal with 2 or 3 on a normal skirmish map. Not the campaign maps. There they are set to easy for new players to deal with.

@Lightning Hunter
You yourself can use up to a total of 9. And yes, you can let them cast Blizzard all 9 at once. I often cast 18 whirlwinds within 5 seconds myself. And a second group can add 18 more. And it is considered legal to do so too.

@EugEnO
Yeah, the difficulty can drop fast. But also can jump into high gear. You can notice this when you have base building missions and missions where you only have a select team at the start. It is the difference between replacement and permanent loss. Old games also allow you to hog up a lot of units. This is not the case in Warcraft 3 though. There you are limited to 90 or 100. And the AI will build to a number accordingly to difficulty. There is even a noticeable difference between missions where you can heal on a regular basis and those missions where healing is not an option.

[Lightning Hunter]

6 hours ago, X3M said:

 

@Lightning Hunter
You yourself can use up to a total of 9. And yes, you can let them cast Blizzard all 9 at once. I often cast 18 whirlwinds within 5 seconds myself. And a second group can add 18 more. And it is considered legal to do so too.

That's not what I mean. I played War2 for years, so of course I know you can move 9 mages around at once (however, you are not correct that they can all cast a spell "at once"). If you are good enough, you can get them all casting a spell within seconds.  It is also possible to cast bloodlust on 30+ men in a matter of seconds if you practice enough.  However, I was actually referring to the fact that the AI can have multiple mage towers and mages walking around different parts of the map simultaneously casting spells at the same time (not in one group). That is not humanly possible. A good player can control a few mages fairly well using clever tactics, but not attacking and retreating using different groups of mages at the same time. Of course, the AI has other weaknesses that you can exploit, like all AI's. I was just saying they can cheat in certain ways.

Edit #2: By the way, the official War2 skirmish maps are terrible for the AI, but I used to create maps specifically for playing against the AI (more open space, clear-cut paths, etc.)  When the AI has specific maps, they can really do quite well.  I used to to take on 3-5 AI opponents, and man was that hard...

Edited November 25, 2017 by Lightning Hunter

[X3M]

True, you can't cast blizzard with one mage on one end of the map and simultaneously cast polymorph on the other side of the map with another mage. A human player could only do this within 3 to 5 seconds with good control, practise and planning this ahead.
You know that double clicking a group number, brings vision on those units, right? Combine that with some zeppelins in groups, and you are good to go. Just practise.

Denying that a multicast exists, will cost you matches.
And the correct method would be:.....drum rolls...

Select your 9 mages. Put them in group # by pressing Ctrl #.
Select one of them and select blizzard.
Press Alt #. Notice how you still can cast blizzard while the whole group is selected?
Select a target and all 9 mages will cast blizzard.

I like to multicast with healing (no excess mana lost), blizzard and whirlwind.
Death coil (cast on ground within an enemy group) and fireball (cast on ground in front of an enemy group) are less, but hey, a range of 11 or 13 effect is funny nonetheless.
And the rest, has no use from multi casting imho.

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Talking about "cheating" that the AI does, but a human player can do too.

Use the Q key, and keep your tanks moving around while battling your opponent. I am winning way to many matches with my shitty light tanks!!!

[ScottO]

the AI in RA DOES cheat, I mean, playing single player campaigns as Soviets, Allies attack with helicopters from nowhere later on, when Allies its worse, SU seem ti get free migs AND helecoptors as well as better paradrops