How can new people learn? (standard of play)

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah, I've approached Grant with just a message to keep it in mind. Not sure if he's that interested in knowing more.

It's tricky and I'm not sure who the best person to really approach and how to package the idea.

Yeah, my thoughts are to just do what we can for competitive mode. In some ways we're bring true to the original idea... in that we're trying to give a fair set of maps with interesting ideas in them.

[ore_truck]

Only new players host with more than $10000 starting money, because I think they are trying to get into like a sandbox mode since they're still new, lots of money allows them to build and test every unit easily (at least thats what they think). It's common sense a million starting cash would ruin the gameplay (what's the point of harvesters) so if a player hosts a million dollar starting money game, they are either new or something is seriously wrong with them (e.g. a noob is too lazy to manage economy, decides to dumb down the game with $999999).

Checkboxes doesn't seem to be a big problem. Bases, CTF, tiberium and crates are part of the original game settings. MCV undeploy rarely makes any difference. The only thing I hate is the separate helipad. It encourages people to build more helipads while those who only want to use 1-2 orcas for light harassments gets slowed down.

I think the problem is the silly maps and how people are actually preferring them more. I mean, we can't stop people from making any maps they want, sometimes it's fun to play crazy maps once in a while for variety but the problem is that people are playing it too frequently to the point it seems like it's the standard of game. Just last week, someone hosted Green Acres and another player slammed him to pick a different map. I haven't played this game until recently, still manage to beat someone on a standard map and settings.  Many TD players nowadays can't survive playing maps with little tiberuim. Pity.

 

[chem]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:32 AM, ore_truck said:

Only new players host with more than $10000 starting money, because I think they are trying to get into like a sandbox mode since they're still new, lots of money allows them to build and test every unit easily (at least thats what they think). It's common sense a million starting cash would ruin the gameplay (what's the point of harvesters) so if a player hosts a million dollar starting money game, they are either new or something is seriously wrong with them (e.g. a noob is too lazy to manage economy, decides to dumb down the game with $999999).

Checkboxes doesn't seem to be a big problem. Bases, CTF, tiberium and crates are part of the original game settings. MCV undeploy rarely makes any difference. The only thing I hate is the separate helipad. It encourages people to build more helipads while those who only want to use 1-2 orcas for light harassments gets slowed down.

I think the problem is the silly maps and how people are actually preferring them more. I mean, we can't stop people from making any maps they want, sometimes it's fun to play crazy maps once in a while for variety but the problem is that people are playing it too frequently to the point it seems like it's the standard of game. Just last week, someone hosted Green Acres and another player slammed him to pick a different map. I haven't played this game until recently, still manage to beat someone on a standard map and settings.  Many TD players nowadays can't survive playing maps with little tiberuim. Pity.

 

 they flat out refuse low money maps,  you make a map with as much money as GA and people literally think its broken and many more just flat out refuse to play anything wo about  bush lands level tiberium, I agree it is a pity 

you could make 100 low money maps and no one would play them , if there was only a few money maps nearly everyone would play them, you cant win on this, I will have another go at making a low money map popular though see how it pans out

Actually with all the tiberium out the way I can at least make something really pretty and detailed, it opens up doors that you don't have with loads of tiberium, you can see why they went to oil spots on KKND or tiberium mines/spikes on cnc4, and the infinite money on ra1, without all that tiberium taking up space you have a lot more freedom as a map designer. I don't like it as much but it opens doors for the map design.

Edited August 6, 2018 by chem

[AchromicWhite]

On 8/5/2018 at 5:32 PM, ore_truck said:

Only new players host with more than $10000 starting money, because I think they are trying to get into like a sandbox mode since they're still new, lots of money allows them to build and test every unit easily (at least thats what they think). It's common sense a million starting cash would ruin the gameplay (what's the point of harvesters) so if a player hosts a million dollar starting money game, they are either new or something is seriously wrong with them (e.g. a noob is too lazy to manage economy, decides to dumb down the game with $999999).

Checkboxes doesn't seem to be a big problem. Bases, CTF, tiberium and crates are part of the original game settings. MCV undeploy rarely makes any difference. The only thing I hate is the separate helipad. It encourages people to build more helipads while those who only want to use 1-2 orcas for light harassments gets slowed down.

I think the problem is the silly maps and how people are actually preferring them more. I mean, we can't stop people from making any maps they want, sometimes it's fun to play crazy maps once in a while for variety but the problem is that people are playing it too frequently to the point it seems like it's the standard of game. Just last week, someone hosted Green Acres and another player slammed him to pick a different map. I haven't played this game until recently, still manage to beat someone on a standard map and settings.  Many TD players nowadays can't survive playing maps with little tiberuim. Pity.

 

Not entirely true. I remember some guys that had only been playing closed games... they finally came out of their shell but had been only playing with 9999999 credits. They'd even built their own metagame where they all just made 3 barracks at the start and pumped rocket soldiers like no tomorrow. 
The thing is, that's not their fault. There's no way to know how much you should maybe start with... or even there abouts. Heck, even we've argued that 10,000 MAY be too much.

I agree that Bases, CTF, tiberium and crates etc are part of the game, but they're not part of a standard competitive match. Obviously CTF isn't, tiberium is just if tiberium spreads or not, and crates can literally be "oh, I got a commando with my scouting infantry, RIGHT outside your base... lol GG". That has no place in a standard match.

Yes, people prefer them because they feel that they're getting more to start with (feels safer... less things to worry about early on). Newer players play defensively. They're thinking about a later time when they'll have the most beautiful base and a giant army. For those who know RTS, they know that matches really aren't like that... but that's why it's important to let people play how they like, but by still showing them that there's a clear difference between that and a standard match, and having a system that automatically sets up a standard match if/when they're ready/willing to learn.

[X3M]

Maybe a trigger that gives a set ammount of money per second. That instead of the big number that they want to use.

 

So games with over 20k will all get 0 and a 25?/s income without a refinery?

 

Just throwing in a suggestion. 

KKnD.....loving the game more and more. 

[AchromicWhite]

On 8/8/2018 at 4:29 AM, X3M said:

Maybe a trigger that gives a set ammount of money per second. That instead of the big number that they want to use.

 

So games with over 20k will all get 0 and a 25?/s income without a refinery?

 

Just throwing in a suggestion. 

KKnD.....loving the game more and more. 

I don't really see how that'd help very much.
I'm not trying to tell people that they can't play like that, if they like it, go for it!
Many of these people never come and play with the rest of the community, they're just playing friends. Fair enough.

I just think there should be an intuitive way to let them know what a standard match set up, is. So that they can make a decision between the two.

[X3M]

There is one thing that I learned over the years while dealing with people that show introvert behaviour.

Let them be.

...

Only when they want to be part of the more experienced club. They will be forced to play the way the experience play. If they don't want to, a kick to their butt to show them the way out. Sometimes the best way to get people in, is to show them out.

I believe there is ranked play out there of some form. How about making those matches only valid with the settings that you are suggesting?

[AchromicWhite]

On 8/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, X3M said:

There is one thing that I learned over the years while dealing with people that show introvert behaviour.

Let them be.

...

Only when they want to be part of the more experienced club. They will be forced to play the way the experience play. If they don't want to, a kick to their butt to show them the way out. Sometimes the best way to get people in, is to show them out.

I believe there is ranked play out there of some form. How about making those matches only valid with the settings that you are suggesting?

Well something to that tune is the idea. Just anything that shows the difference.

There even used to be a "hint/tip" for RA1 that said something like "pros play with these settings... 10000 credits, bases on" etc.
Even that is something.
Just, we know how much maps can mess this game up, so it's an important part of it.