chem

Hi bro. I haven't got a channel, but im happy to help as best I can. Totally agree GDI naders are very potent and a single heli can cause GDI problems for 3 main reasons. 1) it counters the naders and kills them quite efficiently leaving only meds to deal with which is alot easier than when they are combined with naders, your flamers will also be made more potent as they have less naders to deal with 2) Many GDI players will likely panic and over produce on bazooka men /AA putting you in the lead economically. 3) Bazooka men are more expencive and slow and they will have to drag them around with their med tanks/naders to fight you effectively if they cant base creep to you. I will show you the videos/channels in game. Its harder to find stuff for Nod. But Ive got some good ones Cya soon we play online all the time. So not hard to find us give me a PM! Take care bro

Ok thats good to know I definitely regret harassing you at the start, and getting on bad terms, big mistake, I apologise. I respect your wishes. We are having some great battles on Zodiac me SMT Ghost and Weaver played it non stop the other night all night!

Yea they didn't have the luxury of learning as much from Lovehandles Ferret you and cn2mc and other more senior members This game is a huge part about knowledge, little pices of knowledge that you gradually accumulate over time, and that knowledge is very slow to be learnt as you go along. Some of the more rare unorthodox builds simply are not known by most people. They don't even know its possible or a realistic thing to do. Ive got tips from you and cn2mc but the other guys are just learning as they go with no help at all. Whats your opinion on making a map that appeals to popularity vs making a map that would score high marks if it was being rated by a game developer? It seems that with a few exceptions these two variables are inversely proportional and you cant do both very easily!? Especially if you stay true to how the original game played in 1997 ie low tiberium, small narrow pathways, high map familiarity needed and so on

Awesome tip thanks White!!

SMT told me that after a recent match you told him that you hate me and Mike Pence, is that true also why do you help out someone you dislike? Ive never been in that situation before, where someone dislikes you butt helps you, is it just for the greater good of the community that you help me out? Will do I will get off the forum bad habit!

Lol no I just need to get more of a life atm, too much time on the net, not healthy, I never abuse people for it never no hate is involved no cruel low self esteem lashing out, the only time I did that is when I lost as a noob, but now the only thing I do is banter . Yea in response to what white says and I wasn't sniping at you white, I think western society doesn't help our ego's much or self worth and yea we probably take these things way more seriously than we should as our self worth is tied to them when it shouldn't be

Will do, thanks for your help and I hope I don't dish out negativity when discussing cnc and peoples contributions, but we have to risk damaging egos to get better results, realising my maps are not so good feels bad but its the only way I can get better so I appreciate the truth. We also get your awesome map and my improved map so everyone benefits which is great overall I feel. With map flood the real reason it flooded so bad was because I kept all my maps that were unfinished in my favourite folder and too many times I flicked through them and handed them out to everyone and they spread that way. I don't do that anymore, I un name them, so that problem is definitely solved. So its only a matter of time before the flood drains away. I will not be adding unfinished or slight variation maps ever again.

1) Infinite money off, banned not allowed, that would solve the balance issues alot, if the infinite money is something people want then the game needs to be balanced for this directly because it wasn't designed with infinite money in mind.

Why is there this toxic attitude of anger and abuse in our community especially from some of the more senior members of cnc.net to verbally abuse players for cheesing, using engineers, buggy spam APC use Chinooks, conyard sells, helis etc, no ones doing anything wrong and they get abuse for it and worst of all its nearly all from the senior guys who should be making the community less toxic and more welcoming, it seems to be universally agreed by some that cheesing is toxic and I think perhaps they are toxic to our community not the cheesing. Cheesing being good or bad is just an opinion so why should people get abused for a difference of opinion? Cheesing done well is an effective part of a pros skill set its part of the game and should be embraced as part of the fun and the real meta, not looked down on and certainly no one should get angry and abuse or tell people off for using tactics they don't approve of or like? What do you think? (and please be honest about whether you are one of the ones that tell people off for cheesing ignore them, block them, get angry at them and abuse/scold them for it)

Not the final edit as some of the symmetry is off as are some of the tree circles. Will perhaps need to make it bigger overall ie extend the circle so its vertical limit size But added depth with very limited room. Might be able to add more with the bigger size I already have a pre made bigger template. The trees have the bush tile under them (except centre) so they function as space saving walls/decoration. I now understand the strategic paths, and depth and how to add them to maps I will demonstrate something as strategic as I can get on my next map, the next map I make will be all about extreme strategy. Thanks cn2mc!! Looks like a Persian carpet, think I'll call it Dubai Imprisonment Holiday .

.

Thankyou Nyer! !Its fixed it was trolling, unfortunately some people like griefing anonymously this way, I wont say how they do it but its a trolling method as im sure you know. I figured out who they were and banned them. Its great to know an extra way to minimise it though!!

Yea we play everything the main group are good at cheesing, proper late game playing, extreme tiberium game meta's, low tiberium maps, base creeping and troop metas the real meta, mod maps, team games, ffa, 1v1, we do it all and most of us are good at everything. Good man, you should join us more often X3M you are more than welcome to, everyone is! That map is probably inbetween, all map makers go through a process of getting more and more skilled just look at manu and his maps, ironically the most popular maps manu made that still go around today are not his most technically advanced maps they were maps like injustice that he made as a novice map maker. It seems the better you get at map making technically and on par with what white and cnc2mc say the less popular the maps get. That's not a negative statement im making its a very objective observation (one that is important to talk about and resolve) . Im not sure why that is. My more technical maps on par with their advice are not as popular either. Some aspects of map design are liked and popular some are not. (vertical limit 1 and injustice 5 player were and are far more popular than the vertical limit 2 the original, no one played it despite it looking much better, being far more balanced and technical/strategic in design, why is that? ) I think it would be a mistake to follow cnc2mc and whites advise 100% but also a mistake to just make injustice style etc maps, the balance is in the middle that is the optimal way imo. Compromise. I can see their ideas are solid but popularity is a crucial variable too, you've got to make what people want otherwise what you make may as well not exist and its a waste of time and effort.

Things have changed ull be surprised at how good the regulars are getting on any map! Its not like a year or 2 ago they can adapt to any map , any meta and do really well. Thanks alot to you sharing your experience and knowledge and me changing the maps to create something closer to the proper meta that you guys advised.

The amount of money maps is a reflection of what people want and me catering to what they want. Infact im going against what they want and having less tiberium in the maps than what they really want which is often an injustice 5 player type game and that amount of tiberium. Im trying to go against everyone a little bit to go along with your opinion and whites because I think you have valid opinions that matter. While there's a difference of opinion here between you and other players I see the validity of your opinion. Its also an easy problem to solve because we can all compromise on well made money maps that are not super extreme with tiberium amounts and allow for more strategy and less of the popular turtling slamming no troop use, and sniping games. Ive brought your ideas to the maps and people now use troops, base creep on a regular basis, and so on, something they didn't do before. I was never told about paths and the strategy they lead to which is the only reason most of my maps don't have them, but now I know and will update them accordingly. The number of crumby maps is something I have stopped putting into the system, and I will PM funky to get them taken out if possible, if that's not possible they will go away in time like even good viral maps do. If I wasn't here people would still be using injustice 5 player FFA ,circle, utah and HJK and not deviating much. These are still being used but now players are being more diverse in the way they play and they are getting better thanks to me you and white.

Got it, thankyou for the explanation and help on everything as always! Someone revived my old hjk map that says white loves HJK etc that was a long time ago when I made it and it was only made as a joke, im not doing anything to disturb the peace

Epic thanks for making this cn2mc!!! Cant wait to play it and start making maps with more strategy to them! Thanks for the help guys!!

Why does White make that choice on Iron valley that has almost equal effectiveness which ever route you take, its like a decision to make that doesn't really matter that much in terms of overall effectiveness? So whats the purpose of it?

Thankyou this is really good and helpful! I hope you release that map! Infact please do!! Its imo one of the best FFA maps around! Id love to play it! I cant wait to start implementing these ideas into the maps thanks alot for the help and taking the time its really appreciated!!!

Strongly and respectfully disagree, the regulars , you cant say they are non experienced players, theve been playing for many years, favour money maps, these are pros, some of them are on your level approximately and a rare few are above skill wise, which takes alot of experience. The money maps are fun because of the high action, high carnage, big battles, etc people love that. Its not just buggy spam, buggies are a small part of that. Its more about loads of tanks and huge bases. Its not like they havnt played low money technical maps before its that they prefer more money. Also the money maps became more common because they are more popular and enjoyable to most, not the other way around, you try getting the regulars to switch to low tiberium, they don't like it so much. . I agree with removing all unfinished/redundant maps

I cant remember what video it was but some super pros go 4 refineries and several barracks and power plants like Lovehandles before the weapons factory, (I think) he sometimes even goes helis and no war factory if im not mistaken, this is a GDI build, Jacko also went 3 refineries and 1 heli pad before an airfield which was another super pro build that was with nod vs GDI.

Also if you don't cater to whats popular like high numbers of people (6 players) and high tiberium amount (higher the better for most people) and perfect fairness (people get irritated when map design causes their loss rather than skill) is there any point making a map if it just doesn't get used? It may as well not exist? Even if its technically very advanced?

How can I add strategic depth I played zodiac today and the pathways really added something especially when playing another good player, how else can I add for strategic depth? Is vertical limit more strategically deep that the above circle map?

I hope White makes a 3v3 map !

Southern Utah will always be more popular than some of the best maps ever made by map makers simply because its fun to play and has a shed load of tiberium. Should these maps be taken away from everyone? If they are not they will always replace the superior maps for the majority of players. (even if you start training noobs on good maps they will still go to the fun instant gratification money maps further down the line I bet, just like the long term players do) If you don't believe on banning them out right do you think we should embrace them and make more of them and make them more fun and better? Where do you draw the line on banning them vs having some vs having many?