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Ok Ive finished the nod vs nod version of Green Acres, save a few missing blossom trees/minor changes needed, I had to add an extra tile to the size of the map so there was a midpoint and an even number of cells, then to keep it as true to the original as possible while keeping it symmetrical and hopefully still balanced I mostly used a mirror image of half the original GA map. If you think there's anything I should do to change it please let me know. Im thinking about making a 2nd one that is a mirror image of GA but left to right mirrored so 2 GDI players can fight left to right without one having a bottom advantage. I was going to use the far right mid spot to mirror. I would have liked to have made a half way house spot location like with iron valley too as yet another version, but I cannot do that, there is no mirror image or spot location that will allow that and if it isn't a mirror image style map of the original I don't think it can stay true enough to the original?

Gentlemen its time! https://youtu.be/dAxZVZgpmI0

There you go spot number 5 is now officially held by Ephraim, and he could be ranked even higher than this. Thanks for the update mate! The elite.... 1) Ferret beat both PHD and Lovehandles on his most recent games! Hes the current top dog, the best in the world! 2/3) Lovehandles and PHD went 1-1 they are drawing for 2nd and 3rd place! 4) White holds 4th 5) Ephraim holds 5th

Can you tell me what you would set the standard at because Im sure its perfectly reasonable and of a high standard knowing you, so im sure we can all pretty much agree and then we can start having our fights on only a few maps or only 1map etc. If others disagree then we can compromise in a sensible way, if some others are incompatible with compromise then we cant help that, but we can carry on without them. Also I think is a bad idea to rely on the design team, everything we do we have to do by ourselves, even ranking it ourselves, if the standard is a certain resolution for example we can verify it with recording game software (I don't think we should get bogged down with too detailed standards like resolution though, because its inherently unfair anyway, like different people have different monitor sizes, different IQ amounts, different amounts of free time, more expensive mouse's, more tweeked settings, some people are on medications or recreational drugs etc etc etc, its inherinetly unfair, so I think setting too many standards is a bit futile, perfectionistic and will lead to nothing happening or more people dropping out. Perhaps we could just agree on a few maps that are fair to the best of our knowledge, and then get stuck in? Im all for any of your or cn2mc's maps, both have some high quality tournament style maps. Relying on the staff and being too perfectionistic with standards imo = never happening, and it leaves things out of our control. But if we relax things a bit and do more by ourselves then we can start it right away.

:P to ore truck!

xD The sad face was a joke too lmao . Its hard to see context on a forum or text etc. I totally understand why ppl are upset with EA, I can even understand why EA made a mistake with cn4, it wasn't really a horrible thing they did, they just went with the flow of how the top pros where building bases in cnc3 ie moving them alot to get the tiberium. Its an understandable mistake ie you can see why they did it, it wasn't arrogance .

I think we should work proactively with EA, they are listening, they are showing that they are listening, you cant really ask for more at this stage. We should be positive and proactive not destructive immature and negative. Not giving orders just feel it is a more logical way to be in order for us to get what we want.

I respectfully disagree, seprothe is better than nodnarb 100% of the time, he beats nobnard, he is objectively better than nodnarb, Love lets say then beats seprothe 80% of the time he is objectively better than seprothe I agree that it gets complex when there are 3 guys lets say speedy dash beats justme and justme beats weaver, but weaver beats speedy dash, then you have a pickle like with position number 5, but thenyou just look further a field and find out who else they beat and then you are highly likely to find out how they really rank. Sure there will be some guy that mismatches with another , maybe speedy dash beats all these top guys but loses to mike pence but hes still better than pence because pence cant beat all the top guys, so its just an unfortunate style mismatch for speedy (this is an example scenario not a real one) BUT you will find that those mismatches are extremely rare because most top 5 pros don't have any holes in their game or only minor ones,so its very straight forward for the most part and if it isn't straight forward its almost straight forward, and easy to figure out. With regards to lovehandles, sure you can beat ferret sometimes and love beats you nearly all the time, then ferret beats lovehandles, well thats still ferret num 1 love 2 white 3, now if you beat ferret all the time but lost to lovehandles all the time it would be more problematic, we would have a tie(very unlikely) so then you go see how all 3 of you fair against phd, and other top guys and whoever beats the most others, successfully, is ranked number 1 . Again you could have a situation where they all beat the others equally or in an iffy way that's hard to compare but that truly is unlikely and wont exist in reality very often so we can rank accurately imo/as far as I know. Especially when its only the top 5. There are only 5 people to rank. At the moment only position 5 is hard to rank since there are a load of close contenders for that spot, the rest are easy from the information I have, also 5 will be very easy to figure out after a few matches if we cant figure it out just from asking people their experiences against other players. With regards to situations its always done as a whole a bigger picture type thing someone may be very good in certain instances better than another but its how good they are as a whole that counts, not any kind of narrow specialisation

Ephraim said he goes 50 50 with you white and goes 40 60 with cn2mc. Cn2mc is damn good often really hard work. "I can beat him" is a quote I have from you White in another thread with regards to you vs cn2mc, also with my experiencing fighting both of you I could beat cn2mc as a new guy, I was getting more wins vs him as a new guy just with a limited albeit cheesy skillset, also you beat me way more than cn2mc did both as a new guy and as of late. I'm certain you are objectively better. We could ask PHD though ive seen him beat cn2mc and you say he played you, we could ask him and ferret who they find more difficult for further accuracy.

I mean cnc1 almost does what I want and that was the 1st game so maybe its not such an unrealistic ask. Maybe going the red alert 2 route would make it easier and having a specific unit/units that helps you rush harass attack with force or turtle etc they have experience doing this already with generals cnc3 ra2 etc Or perhaps we should just be happy with a near balance and accept that a game with so many variables is always going to be imperfect. So long as they keep patching till its close, no 1 side thats obviously OP etc I think that's the best you can hope for? It must be very hard to balance, you make one unit fast another slow with armor and then try to make 2 non equal non compatible different attributes equal in effectiveness, it must be insanely hard to balance. Maybe we should not expect or try to get perfection from anyone with this genre?

What do we majority* agree on so far? 1 Improved harvester AI 2 Improved graphics (1point someone made is this would make it look red alert 2 esc graphics, in the cnc1 style) 3 A remake so close to the original that our pro skills will be directly transferable, also the same feel 4 No out of syncs or other annoying crashes 5 Compatible with all commonly used windows versions and support with future ones 6 Get rid of right side advantage 7 Get rid of bottom range advantage Anything else is only an option e.g rebalances (like improved weapon's factory strength/mrls early for gdi or reduced base creeping/ conyard build speed bonus like aftermath on ra1) and not the official game? That's it? Also do you think what we want is already in the future scope for cnc.net ?Will the talented staff here eventually get all these things or are some of them simply impossible?

REALLY USEFUL INPUT X3M THANKS BRO! I WILL USE YOUR ADVICE DIRECTLY FOR MY NEXT NON SYMMETRICAL MAP

ive never even played it I don't know what it is, but I know my long hard earnt cnc1 skills wont translate over to it perfectly so I dont want to jump ship

Talked to PHD, he was very selfless and honest with the feedback, the latest rankings are as follows... 1) Ferret beat both PHD and Lovehandles on his most recent games! Hes the current top dog, the best in the world! 2/3) Lovehandles and PHD went 1-1 they are drawing for 2nd and 3rd place! 4) White holds 4th 5) Too complex to rank cn2mc beats ephraim but Ephraim does better vs other higher up players than cn2mc does I havnt included my own rank but Ive beaten cn2mc about 5 to1 in our last few 1v1 games see Emma/RobL/PHD for confirmation on this, I did this on GA which is a map I hardly ever play on Ephraim beats me more often than I him tho. White beat me on my map and when I had bottom and right advantage last time we played. I usually beat weaver but I seem to remember him beating me last game we played, so I don't know how good he has gotten as of late, hopefully he will chime in and tell us how well he does vs other players Im pretty sure seprothe has become too inactive to rank he also changed up his style likeI did and didn't really get good at the new style due to inactivity, so I think hes not in contention for number 5 although he should be, but will try and find him and give him a match. Mike Pence should be in the running's too but he plays too much TS and too little TD So number 5 is hard to rank I need to fight weaver again and Ephraim so we can decide number 5 I will continue to update the rankings as they change, just much more slowly than I have so far

Thankyou sir xD depressing lmao, I have noticed that even quite unfairly balanced maps make for very enjoyable games, thanks for reminding me of this! It seems like an invalid idea to have imbalance but imo its not, it seems to me that imbalance in skill levels (and areas of expertise in skill) mixed with imbalance in map layout creates more variability /variety/unpredictability/fun and less boredom than a map that's perfectly balanced. I think you don't want to go too far though because having too much less than another player then becomes unpleasant and also predictable again

its a great map well made sir, it is almost highly symmetrical with regards to the point you made in the other thread, and thankyou we need more 3 player maps , there are a few really good ones but 3 player has the least amount of maps catered for it compared to hundreds for every other number of players

Thanks bro, thats good news, will check that map out I know ive played it but I have forgotten it, you are right there's more to a map than symmetry and balance, ultimately the most important thing is enjoyment and fun since this is a game and that's probably the reason we all play. Balanced esports is fun too but there can be maps for that and maps just for unpredictability and fun, I noticed sometimes the maps that are inherently unfair or seemingly flawed produce the best games and sometimes the most perfectly balanced maps do not produce such a fun experience. Thanks guys you answered my thread perfectly!

another thing id like to see is many styles of play being balanced in effectiveness so that the best players in the world don't all have the same uniform style, so the turtles should have a chance as should the rushers, guerrilla tactic guys etc etc for me the great fun of multiplayer is having 1guy play like a complete jerk ie pence, 1guy a turtle ie gro, 1 guy a rusher, 1 guy balanced, 1 likes troops, one air etc etc Also I like when you have both tech that you can combine units in away that you couldn't before like the IFV in ra2and use soviet infantry in it, or using a spy in other rts games that gave you a new unit that wasn't the exact enemy unit but one based on their technology that you can now build, I also like super units like in KKND 1 the ones you find and the way they balanced compared to the rest of your units

It seems to me that the best you can get on these types of maps is an approximate guess at balance an estimate, which isn't much better than the basic westwood maps in red alert 1 like path beyond or marooned 2. Can you give me any examples of a non symmetrical map with 5 or 6 players that has almost perfect balance? Or does that map not exist? It seems there are many factors working against it being fair, and those factors are not easy to quantify so all that leaves is for the map maker to make a rough guess at what is fair? Do you think these maps are worth making?

Thanks for input X3M :)))

Hi Ferret awesome thanks bro hmm that sounds like he can do it and that it is possible just that he has more urgent things to attend to

IVE BEEN TALKING TO A FEW OTHERS AND PHD HAS RISEN ANOTHER SPOT AGAIN. (ITS ONLY WHAT IVE HEARD IM NOT SURE IF ITS TRUE OR NOT, ALSO LOVEHANDLES IS ONE SUPER HUMBLE GUY AND IS PROBABLY RUSTY SO TAKE HIS RANKING NON SERIOUSLY) 1) Ferret 2) PHD 3) Lovehandles 4) White 5) cn2mc There's some confusion over spot 5 also as ive heard Ephraim loses to cn2mc about 60 40 and goes about 50 50 even with white, this may be due to cn2mc's unorthodox style, he sure throws spanners at you with his 1refinery GDI build and other builds/tactics no1else does.

I havnt played it much yet but they managed to get the feel of the old game and it looks very good graphics wise has heaps of features big maps,. What are the positives and negatives of the game?

A tiberium tile where the tiberium has been hacked to last much longer b4 its depleted, that way the already small maps could use space more efficiently opening up lots more freedom in design, without turning it into a fast rush/ money map or overgrowth map like with the infinite ore on ra1. Frankly anything any hack that would allow less space to be used for tiberium would be so awesome for map makers, esp when it comes to making 6 player maps . Is there anyway to hack this in like the fast planes, advanced ai harvesters etc ?

oh damn sorry thought he was talking red alert 1and I was using ra2 modes as ideas, thanks another mode could be troop bias mode, you could half the price of troops and increase the damage done by rocket troops, faster special forces, more range on others etc to encourage their use more and to change the dynamic/style of play