Lucifer

SFJ gamemode is a YR mod made for pro players-- a complete remaster of the game built upon the west's best modding accomplishments over the past 20 years. It's an acronym for its founders: Snark, Frank and Jalad. Armageddon mode is a small patch made for competitive Ra2-mode games; it was used in the big tournament sponsored by balth (created by the same people who made SFJ)

It's highly defendable, nothing broken about it-- it's just cheesy. Cheesy in the same way that selling mcv on 1 miner all in rush is cheesy, or sealIFV rush is cheesy. There is a luck factor if you are successful and there is potential to 'ruin' a game in a few short minutes. Objectively, if you were serious about winning, this is what is attractive about these things, as Andy points out. However, the game is old and does not have a serious competitive scene. Many of the good players have been playing for a long time and have developed a sort of chivalry with the cheese tactics and simply desire a quality game with another quality player, and while can defend against such things, they perceive engi rush as 'bad manners' for they sake of having a gg.

Indubitably. some serious name dropping here my man. I mean, it was believed by some that Kane was in fact just a myth created to scare noobs.... 20 YEARS AGO. So at this point I think we can say he's officially beyond the limits of mere players, "best ever" or otherwise. He's actual, full-blown noob-scaring MYTH status now bruh.

as sov you either -go straight iron curtain -pump wars and split rhinos - one big attack at the right place at the right time (i,e, near there miners or mcv right after they teched but before BF is loaded and in position)

Its a great argument / example of the point of this topic as it represents the problem with yuri in a nutshell, and happens frequently enough. Think about what goes into a successful deso bomb on mirage... You have to put 5 of them in the flak, micro the flak at the right time at the right place, avoid seals, rockets, etc and even still he can micro away, bomb it with planes etc. Theres thinking, tactics, timing, strategy, micro etc. And you dont steal them, you just kill them. Is it a bit lopsidded? Sure... but.... Now think about the pschic dominator. You just click a single time. There is no "warning, phschic dominator actived" like for the other superweapons. The base blows up and you STEAL his units. All with a single click. This is a degree of lopsiddedness to a degree in no other RTS ever bruh. How is it so difficult to see this l0l

you can blow up enemy base + capture their entire army with a single click? lul

Missing the point fellas. Its not about being able to fight or win against yuri. Its about the type of gameplay that yuri creates. Theres much less skill involved in winning with OR winning against yuri. Plain and simple.

pick on some1 ur own size

This post summarizes the problem perfectly. As you describe, things like "yuri shenaningans" and battle fortress absolutely kill casual play because there is no reason to do anything else--the gameplay is boring and redundant-- and lets face it, the units are gay af! You sit with bf, I sit with bf, you sit with bf, I sit with bf... you see where im going with this. Interestingly, this is the exact thing that kills competitive play as well! You can not be creative or try new things or even be very aggressive or try anything skillful because really what u should be doing is teching ASAP to get those, as I personally would describe, "super gay" units that make everything else irrelevant. Which results in, I sit with mirage bf, you sit with MM mag, I sit with mirage bf, you sit with MM mag. While this patch is very well thought out, theres no way to truly fix the problem by tweaking the numbers. Yuris units are just too.... unengagable. You would have to change their function altogether imo.

Very nice boys. Hope to see more from you. only suggestion: If im not mistaken, it looks like you made the central lakes have rocks to block naval placement? Boys, boys booyyyys! Keep the naval option, it will be the difference between just another TOE and motha fukin' woodland plains ?

Interesting that the percentages are 70-30 and 50-50 when both polls address the same fundamental question ?? Interesting that the main yuri player nowadays only thinks yuri is boring and bullshitty when he has to play against yuri himself... and then suggest pro games both players could go yuri… ? Logic like this explains why the same poll question asked twice can yield different results, why players pick yuri in the first place, and why Donald Trump is president of the US.

simplest solution would be to allow custom games to be ranked. You could have the option to not play yuris or put on the rebalance patch. This should be a thing regardless of weather or not yuri is removed from imo u said in past that you hate YvY and it is luck-based, now ur saying players would go YvY in professional competition? SvS is the most skill-intensive way of playing yuris revenge by far. When you pick yuri, most of the skill is removed and replaced by unicorns and vampires.

Lets get a consensus.

these 3 are realistic goals for this year imo: -#3 clan system seems both most important and easiest to implement. And nowhere is it written that you don't need to be a competitive player to be part of a clan -#2 custom ranked games. Would boost activity for sure. -#6 (ra2 ladder) this would boost activity as well. Ra2 mode has already been implemented successfully into the client so why not? all 3 are closely related in the sense that they require custom games to be ranked. So minimal work is required. Adding additional qm features or patch updates is too much imo

This pretty much sums up the imbalance / gayness of yuri perfectly. Even if you get far enough ahead by doing everything right and outplaying him early on--generally enough to win an allied or soviet opponent in 5 minutes-- you still need invulnerability and nuclear missiles to win l0l. On a more positive note, i recommend france vs yuri, althought i havnt tried it much, so maybe its terrible. But on paper it sounds like a hard matchup for yuri.

best way to beat yuri is host a custom game and turn on yuri-balance patch.

In ra2 I would put america as a 9/10, korea a 8-9/10....but its not due to GGis, its due to the rocketeer count being lower cuz ur spending money on a different type of air unit ironically making ur self fall behind in air (rocketeer#s is all that matters in AvA) and also falling behind on ground cuz u don't have endless free units. Also rocketeers are exactly what you want vs planes. But in YR, this aspect remains the same and is only amplified by GGis.... In AvS the flak tracks are 3-4.5x more effective (ive done the math), you have a forceshield to save you from key bombing timings, siege choppers are additional anti air units, and Gis do way more damage. So I would put America as a 9/10 and korea as a 5/10 in YR. Korea would need a decent buff to be legit imo. (in YR)

Agreed. Input should be collected from all, especially the experienced players. However, someone we can trust would need to be in charge of the official calls. Prep seems like the perfect candidate to me. Thoughts on that? Ill start a forum on the topic to see how its received, might be alot of flame though.... But i mean, what would it take to get the green light from the admins for such a project? The korea-america thing is interesting and relevant to this topic. America has planes too... which can also double shot. Its not so much America's OP paradrop that makes them better as much as it is Korea's lackthereof that makes them worse ?

I agree Yuri's OPness is exaggerated-- minor changes would make a giant difference for the better, if and only if the changes were correct. My suggestion is to stop thinking about it as if there are only 3 factions, allieds, sov and yuri. A certain buff could be entirely unique to say, germany, for example. A cheap Harrier 850 credits perhaps? --Each team would have unique buff(s) (nothing major like new units, that's unrealistic) to make balance between factions better, more identity to each team, and perhaps, in the process of these buffs being intelligently implemented in a simple manner, balance yuri without even touching him. And for the record, korea is nowhere close to America in YR imo, but about the same in ra2. =p

As it stands, the only truly viable teams are America, Yuri and Iraq ---Nor do any of the allied or sov factions have any identity other than 1 unit difference. Forget yuri… the game itself is not balanced at all. Imagine logging on and seriously thinking to yourself... alright, what team should I pick? Eventually, after much consideration, you, in all seriousness, pick germany cuz they are now as legit af! Its been 20 years, boiiiiyyys! . Its time for some change.

Firstly, Martin deserves the utmost respect for his efforts to give this game the boost it really needs. On the changes themselves... they are all the right direction imo. However, I doubt the final balancing of yuri will consist entirely of changes to yuri-- both allied and soviet could use some changes as well. And as mentioned, some special units like the tesla tank certainly could use a (rather gigantic) buff. Martin has also been working on this as well, which again, he deserves respect for. Now ofc you don't wanna get ahead of yourself... the original integrity of the game must be maintained... but that doesn't mean changes cant enhance the experience. For example, Warcrafat III just had 3 -- count them -- 3 -- patch updates just this year and that game is almost as old as YR. The community doesn't whine at each other, rather, they work together to make changes that make the game both more fun and more competitive for everyone. YR/ra2 is 15+years overdue for an official patch update.

Simplest solution would be to remove yuri from QM...but you cant have yuris revenge without yuri.... So how bout if you choose yuri the game will be unranked? Or you are not eligible to win points but ur opponent is etc. Something like that? Also, laming could easily be fixed as well. Just have the no dog engineer kills + the multi engineer options turned on.

He was playing like once every 3 months and was still about as good as me or you when we were practically no-lifing it lmfao. (and we were ~ "the best" 2v2ers at the time) Sam really was that good I don't believe Vwwwwww speaks random noob, brah

it was for YEARS too, man! It was very clear that he was miles ahead of whoever rank 2 fluctuated between. "Mr rank 1" ffs! Not just that... it was the way in which he won. Cant explain it, sadly. Gotta experience that shit first-hand. In terms of biggest skill gap/longest reign Tomi is the best of all time. In terms of playtime-absolute skill ratio, id say sammo is the best ever. In terms of absolute skill id say marko is the best player ever. You could try to also make a case for moon3, but I think it fails. Again, it would take 10 pages to explain why. tomi and marko for 1v1 sammo for 2v2 I just put more weight on 2v2 cuz ive always viewed it as the "true competitive format" for this game.

ill dispel some of the misinformation on this topic --sunny is a 20-0 for any of the real-deals. He's actually a typical, standard, every day scrubberdubbery. --moon3 isn't that good. Explaining why is beyond the scope of this forum. now there's a real name ma' boysss. If you have never played vs sammo in a 2v2 ranked game then you are not eligible to have an opinion worth dickery-dippin-shit on this subject l0l