Poll for balance changes (Community Balance Patch)

[Lovehandles]

Hello, peeps!

We'd like to gather some simple data on where the community stands in regards to each individual change that was made in the Community Balance Patch. You can read more about the Community Balance Patch here, for further explanation of each change. Feel free to post more in-depth feedback as a comment instead. ?

[cn2mc]

The forum doesn't let me vote because I don't 'largely agree' with any of the changes. Neutral on CY and MCV sight increase, possibly also on MLRS being GDI only. 

[Lovehandles]

1 hour ago, cn2mc said:

The forum doesn't let me vote because I don't 'largely agree' with any of the changes. Neutral on CY and MCV sight increase, possibly also on MLRS being GDI only. 

Shucks, I'll have to simplify the poll in one way or another, then. Thanks for the input!

EDIT:

Alright, it's been done did. This change is probably for the best either way, considering how bloated it was before. ?

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lovehandles

[Hungry Mike]

I wonder who voted against anti engi changes...

[Guest]

In my opinion it is the best to keep the game as close as possible to the originel version. The players should adapt to the game, not the game to the players..!

Butt i gave my vote!

[Hungry Mike]

As for now, the most unliked point of the patch are the anti-engi settings. Isnt it nice, that more and more people care for the human rights of poor little engineers, who are so sweet and innocent? Free the engineers!  

[Lovehandles]

3 hours ago, OnePostPony said:

As for now, the most unliked point of the patch are the anti-engi settings. Isnt it nice, that more and more people care for the human rights of poor little engineers, who are so sweet and innocent? Free the engineers!  

It would appear MikePence has a lot of sympathisers. :- )

[Hungry Mike]

1 hour ago, Lovehandles said:

It would appear MikePence has a lot of sympathisers. :- )

Not in TD! For sure! XD 

 

[X3M]

Instead of a slower engi. How about a slower apc?

You could actually reintroduce crushing again.

Edited July 18, 2019 by X3M

[AchromicWhite]

19 hours ago, X3M said:

Instead of a slower engi. How about a slower apc?

You could actually reintroduce crushing again.

That's an interesting idea. The main issue with the crushing is the lack of counter micro. Every other crusher allows for a dance of micro between the two players, and for the person choosing forward to crush, as if they miss, they will often end up with their vehicle surrounded by infantry, and taking a lot of damage.
The APC, on the other hand, took a lot less damage, mainly due to it's speed. This mostly eliminates that interaction.
Speed reduction would be one way to help to bring that back into the game. Worth discussing, at least; it's a change that I hadn't considered.

[Hungry Mike]

22 hours ago, X3M said:

Instead of a slower engi. How about a slower apc?

You could actually reintroduce crushing again.

Nonsense. Apcs have to be fast. Otherwise, they are useless.

[AchromicWhite]

Useless is a pretty strong word for a completely untested change, that didn't even have a number applied to it. Honestly, it can become hard to take people seriously if they're heavily bias. Be careful with that.

[X3M]

Let us brake down the facts. The classic ini.

The current speed for the APC is 35.
Bikes have even 40.

The NOD buggy and Humm-vee have only 30.
I find this weird, most of the lighter vehicles have lower speed and are wheeled.
A tracked vehicle should be the slower one, or make up with a higher cost.

Most tracked vehicles have 18 or 12. With the exception of the Stealth tank, which is 30.
Infantry range from 6 to 10 with their speeds. They need micro to dodge the speed of 18. Any higher speeds require a lot of anticipation.
And groups of tanks already have no problem crushing infantry.
 

We all know that roads have a positive effect on vehicle speeds. The wheeled gain more than the tracked.
They will be on par, on roads.

There for, I suggest to have the APC a movement speed of 24/25. Making it faster than any other tracked vehicle. With the exception of a Stealth Tank.
If it proves to be to slow against certain defences. Slowly add speed until it reaches 30.

If you made other changes on speeds in the community balance, by logic, the speed for the APC could be different too.

[AchromicWhite]

The speeds have a % multiplier depending on if they're on foot, wheeled, or tracked.

However, in TD, there are not different terrain types (like road). Areas are simply passable, or not.

Edited July 20, 2019 by AchromicWhite

[Guest]

Why chanche such an epic game?? PLay mods or whatever, butt please leave the game intact. Leave itt as it is, as the game whas ment to play, back in the days.

I think that only a litle few players want chanches, given the fact that the poll is out for a few days now, and only a few reacters.

In my opinion>>>>> ADAPT TO THE GAME!!

[tac]

54 minutes ago, DutchyRA1 said:

PLay mods or whatever, butt please leave the game intact.

This is an optional mod. Nothing was "chanched" in the game except the cargo plane speed.

[AchromicWhite]

The patch is not really to balance the teams as much as it's to balance units and allow for more compositions. But I understand the philosophy of conserving the game, none the less.

[Hungry Mike]

3 hours ago, X3M said:

Let us brake down the facts. The classic ini.

The current speed for the APC is 35.
Bikes have even 40.

The NOD buggy and Humm-vee have only 30.
I find this weird, most of the lighter vehicles have lower speed and are wheeled.
A tracked vehicle should be the slower one, or make up with a higher cost.

Most tracked vehicles have 18 or 12. With the exception of the Stealth tank, which is 30.
Infantry range from 6 to 10 with their speeds. They need micro to dodge the speed of 18. Any higher speeds require a lot of anticipation.
And groups of tanks already have no problem crushing infantry.
 

We all know that roads have a positive effect on vehicle speeds. The wheeled gain more than the tracked.
They will be on par, on roads.

There for, I suggest to have the APC a movement speed of 24/25. Making it faster than any other tracked vehicle. With the exception of a Stealth Tank.
If it proves to be to slow against certain defences. Slowly add speed until it reaches 30.

If you made other changes on speeds in the community balance, by logic, the speed for the APC could be different too.

Apcs are fine as they are. A good player can defend them; its hard to learn, but its a special TD skill. I see no point in slowing them down. If we argue with logic, well, why Chem warriors not die to Tiberium? Why does Nod only have light tanks, when they are the heirs of the Sowjet Union? Apcs are needed to secure poor little engies, who want your base! No changes needed.

The only real good change would be to eliminate Viscs from 1vs1 games.

[Guest]

 A good player can defend them; its hard to learn, but its a special TD skill

Thnx for this onepostpony, says itt all!!!!!

[X3M]

This is regarding the mod. Not the original game.

Whatever you say, has no effect on the original game. Nor the mod.
The same goes for what I have posted.

[Lovehandles]

3 hours ago, DutchyRA1 said:

Why chanche such an epic game?? PLay mods or whatever, butt please leave the game intact. Leave itt as it is, as the game whas ment to play, back in the days.

I think that only a litle few players want chanches, given the fact that the poll is out for a few days now, and only a few reacters.

In my opinion>>>>> ADAPT TO THE GAME!!

As other people have already mentioned, these changes are part of an optional setting you can turn on/off whenever you host a TD game. :- )

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Lovehandles said:

As other people have already mentioned, these changes are part of an optional setting you can turn on/off whenever you host a TD game. :- )

And what is the result off that??? That you have the weirdest settings for a td game. It is also on ra the same, to much chanchable options.

Then you have to make sure that you watch settings b4 gamestart... Then you whill enter a game where you cant crush engi ( wich you didnt c in option, cause you where thinking you where playing td ), butt you find out on latest moment, mcv gone...

I can c so much drama...

Just keep it as it is!

[AchromicWhite]

I actually agree that too many of the settings are variable, and have asked for years that we have a tighter standard of play. But it's usually thrown out. So, we're actually somewhat on the same page there.

I think, if we could be successful in making a well rounded change that enhanced competitive play, we could make the option lock in other features like 10,000 starting cash, bases on etc. Just to give that solid standard of competitive play. Let people know what to practice.

At the moment, people just play whatever... but then when they want a competitive match, a random opponent will simply have another idea of what it means to play competitive C&C, and so that two cannot really play one another without one person having to play in a way that they haven't practised.

Edited July 21, 2019 by AchromicWhite

[Hungry Mike]

We dont need standards of competitive play, White. The best standard is watching you lose (joke). Let them play, what they want. The same for this mod: If they want to make a mod, if they want to play a game with these settings, let them do it. Just dont call it patch, call it mod or alternative settings.

I only hope, that people wont use these mods to force others not to use engies or helis. That would be heresy to Kane, the Brotherhood and C&C TD. Maybe tell in your lobby advices that the mod is not there to create a new rift and that the original game is still superior and should be played, when people argueing about playing the mod or the original game.

Edited July 21, 2019 by OnePostPony

[Lovehandles]

2 hours ago, OnePostPony said:

We dont need standards of competitive play, White. The best standard is watching you lose (joke). Let them play, what they want. The same for this mod: If they want to make a mod, if they want to play a game with these settings, let them do it. Just dont call it patch, call it mod or alternative settings.

I only hope, that people wont use these mods to force others not to use engies or helis. That would be heresy to Kane, the Brotherhood and C&C TD. Maybe tell in your lobby advices that the mod is not there to create a new rift and that the original game is still superior and should be played, when people argueing about playing the mod or the original game.

I think what White's talking about is adding a toggleable option that locks in certain settings, like 10000 starting credits, 0 starting units, crates off, bases on, (no Visceroids, please) and limiting the map selection to a curated pool of maps suited for 1v1, and maybe 2v2 games. This would be especially helpful for people that are relative newcomers to the scene, and it would give us somewhat of a tournament standard to work with too.

13 hours ago, DutchyRA1 said:

And what is the result off that??? That you have the weirdest settings for a td game. It is also on ra the same, to much chanchable options.

Then you have to make sure that you watch settings b4 gamestart... Then you whill enter a game where you cant crush engi ( wich you didnt c in option, cause you where thinking you where playing td ), butt you find out on latest moment, mcv gone...

I can c so much drama...

Just keep it as it is!

As long as the interface is easy to understand, I don't think this argument holds much water. That said, though, the CnCNet client itself could do a better job of explaining what exactly the "Balance Patch" setting does -- a simple link to the main thread whenever you turn the option on/join a game with it enabled, would be a helpful addition. :~)