New to RA2 map making and have some questions

[ezr0913]

I'm new to map making for RA2 but I do have some experience with map making for RA1, so I know and understand the triggers, actions, events, scrips, houses, waypoints ect.

 

I am planning on making a multiplayer map with some basic triggers and scripts in it and I would like to know a few things about final alert 2 before I become more invested in it.

1. Does spied upon and entered by... work in multiplayer? I tried to set both of them up to chrono in reinforcements, but was unable to get it working. I was however able to get reinforcements by setting the event to destroyed by any house. Am I doing something wrong with the other two events or do they not work in multiplayer?

 

2. I would like to send waves of tanks and infantry by an AI house via reinforcements and waypoint scripts also have buildings that they own as well, but I want the map to be a 4v4 (human players). So I need to use a house that isn't used by any of the 8 players, but when I set the building to a random house say French for example, the buildings don't show up on the map. I even tried to use a trigger to convert the civilian buildings to the French house, but it still doesn't work. I haven't even tried to set up the reinforcements yet, because I can't even see the buildings they own I'm going to guess they wont show up though. Can I add those houses in a multiplayer map?

also, how would I go about making alliances with those houses. I don't see <player @ A> as an alliance option. I'm guessing I have to do it in the rules.

 

3.  The RA1 map editor had an option for Semi-constant for the event type. I don't see it in final alert. Is there any way to get the same effect as semi-constant? for example a semi constant trigger would fire when all of the tagged objects meet the event requirements. In final alert I only see Standard and Repeating. I'm assuming those work like Temporary and Constant trigger types similar to RA1.  Is there anything similar to Semi-constant? Or I guess I could set things up differently using globals.

 

4. Limits? What are the limits for triggers, teams and taskforces? In RA1 we are limited to 80 triggers and 60 teamtypes per map. I can't find any maximums in the rules for RA2.

 

I ask these questions because in RA1 I can do every one of them and I'm hoping I'll be able to make a similar map for RA2.

 

Any help would be awesome!

[Ezer_2000]

Welcome to RA2(YR actually, but RA2 better)! It's good to see when people decide to move on and go to ra2, because this game is more new and better.

For topic:

2. You can't place more than 8 players on the map. No matter AI or human. Total max is 8. However I had Red Alert 2 (not Yuri) maps with Civilian reinforcements (aggressive to any other human player).

3. IDK what are you talking about. Standard - trigger fires only once. Standard trigger attached to some group of objects will fire once for every existing/created/destroyed object. You can use local variables (all of them are boolean) to create more complicated logic.

4. Hmm... Few thousands? You can google it. I did that before and found that info useless. Becasue this values are quite big to pay attention when CnCNet max map file size available for transfer is 500-700 kb (admin changed this value few times so only he knows correct number) and map file size exceeds this limit faster than limit of available number of teams/scripts/triggers etc. I had map with over 800 and 200 teamtypes triggers working perfectly here, so I suggest you do not give a fuck about it.

Oh... Repeating trigger fires every frame if all event conditions are TRUE.

[McPwny]

1 entered by doesnt work in multiplayer except for the special case where you can use entered by: -1 and it fires whenever any unit from any house enters the celltag or structure 

2 no, the only houses that arent the auto generated player houses that get loaded into multiplayer are neutral and special. houses like the ones used for france or russia dont get treated the same way and wont work.
i think there is a map trigger you can use to force house alliances in maps, but i havent tested it in multiplay personally

3 im not familiar with ra1's trigger system, but in fa2 and finalsun, standard triggers fire once when all the events are met, and repeating ones fire every time the events are met (which means that for most events that arent 'elapsed time' or 'random time', it will fire constantly on every frame), you can make a trigger that fires once every time the conditions are met by making one of its events be "local is set" and one of its actions be "clear local".

4 ts had the limit of 104 waypoints and i think ra2 had it too, but in yr the limit is something like 700+ waypoints. theres no real limit on things like trigger number or team number in yr, and indeed ive made maps with 400+ waypoints and hundreds of triggers with no issues.

[ezr0913]

Thanks for the replies you guys are awesome! 

1. Tested and works

2. Tested Neutral and Special houses and they do show up on the map and I can confirm that the ally trigger works with them as well, however you can only have them ally you. When I setup the ally trigger they did stop attacking me so it definitely works, but I was able to still attack them. I don't see the option for <player @ a> house in the trigger options tab, only the actions tab. So Idk if it's possible for the players to ally with those houses. I haven't checked out the rules yet to see if I can set them for ally manually.

I also noticed the Special and Neutral houses wont attack each other, even though they are not ally with each other. Is there any way I can change that? also is it possible to change their colors? They both share the same color. I tried to change it in the house options, but they both remained grey. It's not that big of a deal because you will still be able to see the different teams just by the units, but its the little things 

3. Sorry I should've been more clear. In RA1 when you set up a trigger you have 3 options for the event type: Temporary, Semi-constant, and Constant. If you were to set up a trigger for example...

 

"Event = Destroyed by any house"  "Action = send reinforcements" and you attached the trigger (tag) to 3 powerplants or whatever object(s). The three options would be...

Temporary = Would trigger the action only once if any power plant gets destroyed (1 time total)

Semi-Constant= Would trigger the action if all three powerplants get destroyed (1 time total)

Constant= Would trigger the action each time a power plant gets destroyed (3 times total)

 

I was just wondering if there was anything similar, because it made things (IMO) easier to set up for multiple objects. I can definitely figure out other ways to do it though so no big deal.

 

4. Perfect!

 

Thanks again!

[Concolor1]

Looks like what your asking above with regards to constant and semi-constant can be set up with variables and triggers just as suggested above.

But looking at it I’d be using several different types of events and triggers. So I’d have a set of variables using Event 48 destroyed by anything and attach these to each powerplant and I’d also have a repeating tech type does not exist or building does not exist to work the other conditions your seeking.

If you want it written out let me know and I’ll do so.

[ezr0913]

Yeah that's exactly how I would've went about it. Attach a variable to each powerplant and when all variables are met, then fire the action. I however, didn't think of using "tech type does not exist" or "building does not exist". I can think of many uses for those events. Thanks for the info!

 

I'm still having trouble figuring out how to ally with the neutral and special houses. That is the biggest thing holding my map back. I'm able to make them friendly to me, but I am still hostile to them. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Ezer_2000]

16 hours ago, ezr0913 said:

I'm still having trouble figuring out how to ally with the neutral and special houses. That is the biggest thing holding my map back. I'm able to make them friendly to me, but I am still hostile to them. Anyone have any suggestions?

That's simple. You should do that action for both sides.

1. Side A ally to B.
2. Side B ally to A. - full alliance.

This is similar to making an alliance in multiplayer when both players have to click the checkbox. You can press TAB button and look if the alliance box is half-checked I told you the right way.

P.s. Sorry, you can't actually check this thing for "neutral" players. But you can do that with active sides (human or AI).

[Concolor1]

23 hours ago, ezr0913 said:

Yeah that's exactly how I would've went about it. Attach a variable to each powerplant and when all variables are met, then fire the action. I however, didn't think of using "tech type does not exist" or "building does not exist". I can think of many uses for those events. Thanks for the info!

 

I'm still having trouble figuring out how to ally with the neutral and special houses. That is the biggest thing holding my map back. I'm able to make them friendly to me, but I am still hostile to them. Anyone have any suggestions?

You can also add a Second Action , This gives you Two options for your Trigger.

IE Variables A,B & C (Example names)

Trigger Power Plant 1, Event 0: 48 Destroyed by Anything. Action 0: Local is Set A, Action1: 80 Reinforcements at Waypoint #(Example)

Trigger Power Plant 2, Event 0: 48 Destroyed by Anything, Action 0: Local is Set B, Action1: 108 Create Crate at Waypoint # (Another example or Use another Reinforcement team)

Trigger Power Plant 3, Event 0: 48 Destroyed by Anything, Action 0: Local is Set C, Action: 42 Do Explosion at Waypoint # (Yet another example)

Variables Trigger Event 0, Local is Set A , Event1 Local is Set B, Event2 Local is Set C. (Thats all three Locals set). Action 0: 4 Create Team (Yet another team example or whatever you want to happen).

So the Above Triggers Fulfills Two of your Conditions Temporary and Semi Constant.

Im a little confused as to the Constant, since if the above triggers are attached to the power plants, they provide a constant. If your idea is to attach the constant to the players House, as they build, then  Id think some sort of Tech Type Exists, to Enable a Tech Type does not exist Trigger, both on Repeating., so once the Tech type exists, 'say Power Plant', then that enables the Tech Type does not exist, and then 54 Disables itself. Then the Tech Type does not exist , brings on the reinforcement or whatever, then enables the Tech Type Exists, then Disables itself. Both on Repeat. (Having said that it simply works on the one structure, and any more than 1 would mean the tech type was still present on the map.) Id have to sit down and think this through to get it to work.

Ensure you use McPwny's invaluable guide for your buildings lists and triggers, as the Final Alert2 Editor is not accurate when it comes to things like buildings lists. https://ppmforums.com/topic-47332/the-complete-and-definitive-mapping-index/

Edited March 8, 2021 by Concolor1

[ezr0913]

8 hours ago, Ezer_2000 said:

P.s. Sorry, you can't actually check this thing for "neutral" players. But you can do that with active sides (human or AI).

Yeah I can't seem to find any solution to this yet. I even checked the rules to just write in the player alliances under the houses section, but I don't see <player @ A> in the rules for houses... or any multi player houses.

 

1 hour ago, Concolor1 said:

IE Variables A,B & C (Example names)

Trigger Power Plant 1, Event 0: 48 Destroyed by Anything. Action 0: Local is Set A, Action1: 80 Reinforcements at Waypoint #(Example)

Trigger Power Plant 2, Event 0: 48 Destroyed by Anything, Action 0: Local is Set B, Action1: 108 Create Crate at Waypoint # (Another example or Use another Reinforcement team)

Trigger Power Plant 3, Event 0: 48 Destroyed by Anything, Action 0: Local is Set C, Action: 42 Do Explosion at Waypoint # (Yet another example)

Variables Trigger Event 0, Local is Set A , Event1 Local is Set B, Event2 Local is Set C. (Thats all three Locals set). Action 0: 4 Create Team (Yet another team example or whatever you want to happen).

Yeah that's exactly how I was thinking I could set it up. When all required locals are met, trigger the action. Thanks for the write up!  My original question was just asking if there was an option for semi-constant like in the RA1 editor because it was easier. All I would've had to do was make 1 event and set it as semi-constant and attach it to all the powerplants instead of making 4 different events and linking 3 of them separately to each powerplant. It was easier to set up, but you don't have as many options as doing it this way. 

 

And as for the constant I would set that on the 4th trigger to have reinforcements come every X amount of minutes. 

 

Basically, the idea for the map is kinda like a MOBA where teams 1-4 are teamed up with neutral and teams 5-8 are teamed up with special. and there are waves of neutral and special that come every couple of minutes and you need to complete objectives (destroy units and or buildings and infiltrate buildings) to upgrade the waves for your team. So that is why I'm just trying to figure out all these mechanics and see if it's possible before I jump into something ambitious as this.

 

I figured if I can do it for RA1 I can do it for RA2  

[Concolor1]

You can always try a repeating trigger owned by the house. Say Trigger1.repeating,owned by player house,build building type, enable trigger 2, then disable trigger.1

Trigger 2 repeating ,disabled, owned by enemy house,51 Random delay, action 0 Create team (Enemy reinforcements) Action1 enable trigger 1. Action2, Disable Trigger 2

Not quite the trigger your looking for but this one would spring every time the player build a building type, like a reactor.

So not quite every time the building is destroyed, but every time it’s created instead.

The only other way is to switch the above triggers around by changing  techtype does not exist (which has a building number entry as well as a building type),and ensuring the player cannot build that particular building. This way the trigger would fire without attaching anything to a building that hadn’t been built by the Ai as yet.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Concolor1

[Ezer_2000]

On 3/8/2021 at 11:30 PM, ezr0913 said:

Yeah I can't seem to find any solution to this yet. I even checked the rules to just write in the player alliances under the houses section, but I don't see <player @ A> in the rules for houses... or any multi player houses.

What rules do you mean? You can't write any alliances for skirmish or multiplayer by default game ini flags. All flags like "Author="  etc. were made by CnCNet team developers. They won't work in original game. I also never see manual for those new flags, maybe they have it somewhere on github or somewhere else, idk. I suppose they just don't want share it. Ask @Rampastring for more info.

You also can research "Cooperative" game mode where alliances and other game settings are set up by separate ini files.

[ezr0913]

On 3/16/2021 at 1:17 PM, Ezer_2000 said:

What rules do you mean? You can't write any alliances for skirmish or multiplayer by default game ini flags. All flags like "Author="  etc. were made by CnCNet team developers. They won't work in original game. I also never see manual for those new flags, maybe they have it somewhere on github or somewhere else, idk. I suppose they just don't want share it. Ask @Rampastring for more info.

You also can research "Cooperative" game mode where alliances and other game settings are set up by separate ini files.

I meant if you opened the map as a text file and go to the houses section you can set rules for the map. Here's the entry for the British house:

[British]
IQ=0
Edge=North
Color=Gold
Allies=British
Country=British
Credits=0
NodeCount=0
TechLevel=1
PercentBuilt=0
PlayerControl=no

I was thinking it worked similar to RA1 where you would be able to set alliances manually in the map rules. You would just add <player @ A> in the allies section for the house you want it to be friendly with and you would do the same for the other team so both teams are allied with each other. except in ra1 it would be called multi1 instead of <player @ A>. For some reason though, RA2 doesn't have the multiplayer houses listed in the map rules. So I don't think it is possible to do what I want to do. I'm probably going to just abandon the map as I cannot do a few things I wanted to do. I appreciate the help though guys! 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by ezr0913

[Ezer_2000]

I looked into these triggers recently. You can force players aliiances only if they have set some particular countries before game start. You can just make a description what settings requred to play your map properly. Also they can set up teams (alliannces) from the game lobby menu.

The entry you gave above doesn't complitely work for multiplayer and skirmish games. All flags working only in "Campaign" mode. Players don't like this kind of maps becasue routine of game folder search - copy - paste - delete mission file comes with it.