tank assaults

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

which is the most cost effective way to do a mass tank assault?

 

if I was to buy $20k on just one tank type is it better to buy...

 

28 light tanks

or

25 medium tanks

or

21 heavy tanks

or

11 mammoth tanks

 

whats the best way?

[TaxOwlbear]

Light or heavy. Mammoth tanks get eaten by the heavy tanks and outmanoeuvred by the light tanks. The price/power ratio of medium tanks probably isn't good enough compared to heavy tanks. Light tanks at least have the speed advantage.

[X3M]

Remember,

Q! is good for You!

 

Scrap Mammoth, they have an extra type of projectile. Lowering their overall effectiveness in normal tank combat.

 

The other 3 types are on equal grounds regarding firepower etc.

However, I do not know the effects of Q with these 3 while the opponent also uses Q.

But in the old days. The Heavy Tank was the best due to survival damage. I think Q reverted this into the Light tank or changed it into a perfect balance at a certain set amount of costs.

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

Remember,

Q! is good for You!

 

Scrap Mammoth, they have an extra type of projectile. Lowering their overall effectiveness in normal tank combat.

 

The other 3 types are on equal grounds regarding firepower etc.

However, I do not know the effects of Q with these 3 while the opponent also uses Q.

But in the old days. The Heavy Tank was the best due to survival damage. I think Q reverted this into the Light tank or changed it into a perfect balance at a certain set amount of costs.

 

not sure what you're on about with Q.

 

but why does the ability to eliminate tanks and aircraft mean that the mammoth tank is less effective in combat?

 

but the medium tank is a confusing one. why is it nearly the same strength, speed and rof as the heavy tank but for an extra $150 you get double the firepower.

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

after discovering how to calculate dps on another thread...

 

as in my earlier post, if you bought 20k worth of just one tank. I was calculating the theoretical dps of the 20k worth of tanks.

I found a couple of turn ups for the books...

 

the allied artillery is the best damage dealer if against infantry, light armoured vehicles, heavy armoured vehicles and buildings! and nearly twice as effective as the v2! which I always preferred

 

the heavy tank is the best tank and the light tank is only 2.8% worse. medium tank 16.7% worse than the heavy. and the mammoth tank, wow, 38.9% worse than the heavy, its rubbish, do not use lol.

 

but the jeep is actually 10% more effective than the heavy tank at killing lightly armoured units.  and only 8.3% worse than the heavy against buildings. and obviously it rinses infantry. but considering its cost. its not bad eh?

[Nyerguds]

not sure what you're on about with Q.

Um. From what I gathered, the use of Q is the deciding factor in the micromanagement of tank spam games.

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

not sure what you're on about with Q.

Um. From what I gathered, the use of Q is the deciding factor in the micromanagement of tank spam games.

but what does it do? I can't remember.

 

On a slightly different tangent of Q...

... I wish there was a unit build que system like in the later red alerts. I'm never building units at 100% efficiently.

[X3M]

Ok, when you use Q. It goes as follows:

You target a tank, and with Q you can also give that same tank the next movements in a "Q". Meaning that while the order is attack that tank, it also moves around while doing that.

 

It works best or only with rotating turrets. Thus tanks.

 

Here is a tutorial about it, info about Q starts at 1:47 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNxJhL8kM3w&list=PLXk2ncRN1Z5JUmHA1oqFFA6VdSEb7P3Zx

 

And after this, you will automatically have more respect for Tesla weaponry.

 

The story about DPS, where did you find it? Because I lost it and was searching regarding this topic.

 

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

Well there are 15 frames per second at normal game speed apparently. So using that and the rof, damages and the projectile percentages against armour types, which are given in the rules ini, I compiled them into a spreadsheet and number crunched.

 

After that, the dps calculated will only give you a guide to how effective then will be.

 

And if you play at a faster game speed the dps will increase, but all the vehicles dps's will increase at the same rate so if the light tank is better than the medium tank, it will always be better than the medium tank. At fast or slow gameplay.

 

Obviously my calculations don't allow for the fact that the light tank is faster so could avoid being hit more, or that there might be so many vehicles that they get in each other's way when moving around.

[X3M]

There is more to it.

 

DPS always has been an illusion.

 

Have you included the first shot in your calculations? It often starts at point 0 in time.

With a cooldown of 1 second or 10 seconds and their corresponding damage value of 1 and 10.

This makes a lot of difference in a time frame of 20 seconds.

21 versus 3 shots is what you get. Or a 21 damage versus 30 damage. While DPS gives the same result of 20 versus 20.

 

Second, it is better to include the fact that DPS is something different than the shots that you need for destroying a target. Each target actually has its own time frame depending on the damage and ROF. A target that needs 2 shots is done within 1 time unit. While a target that needs 3 shots is done within 2 time units.

 

And third, if you calculate for more units. You need to keep track of the dead. Units with a shorter lifetime will do less total damage in the big picture.

 

 

[Nyerguds]

I find it funny that in a discussion about this, no one so far has mentioned the inaccuracy systems. You can't calculate DPS from any hard values because not all shots actually hit dead-on, and if they don't hit dead-on, they're not even complete misses like in some game mechanics; then you get to deal with the spread rates and damage fade-over-distance of weapon impacts

 

In fact, that's more or less what the use of Q is all about, too: evading full damage.

 

Well there are 15 frames per second at normal game speed apparently.

I doubt that. The game boxes all advertise 60 fps, and 15 fps is the playing speed of the videos.

[X3M]

I find it funny that in a discussion about this, no one so far has mentioned the inaccuracy systems. You can't calculate DPS from any hard values because not all shots actually hit dead-on, and if they don't hit dead-on, they're not even complete misses like in some game mechanics; then you get to deal with the spread rates and damage fade-over-distance of weapon impacts

 

In fact, that's more or less what the use of Q is all about, too: evading full damage.

 

Of course these numbers are needed as well. Can you supply us with the calculation? It differs for each speed (and type of terrain?)

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

Well when I calculated this, I just went by the raw damage, not allowing for wasted shots, overkill shots, etc etc.

Because I guessed that really all vehicles can do these same evasions etc and so are (almost nearly) a consistent.

So the raw damage just gives you an idealistic damage output putting an order of how effective each tank is relative to cost.

 

It was more to assess the allied vehicles against each other to gauge which is best. And the same with the Soviet vehicles.

 

Which is that your best bet is light tanks or heavy tanks. But jeeps arnt completely ruled out against rushes to destroy buildings and infantry.

While a mammoth could be worthwhile if you want to use them as mobile base defences, but only a few even then.

[Nyerguds]

Of course these numbers are needed as well. Can you supply us with the calculation? It differs for each speed (and type of terrain?)

I more or less know how spread rate works (though I think Hyper knows more about that, and it behaves strangely in some cases, like nukes), but on the projectile scattering? Not a clue.

 

Spread, if I remember correctly, was something like the radius in pixels around the impact point of a weapon after which the damage of the weapon faded. Not sure though. I remember reading something about that radius halving the damage, not fading completely, and I'm not entirely sure if it's actually pixels; I remember Hyper telling me about some specific measurement unit they used internally in their games. I also don't actually know how the game sees unit hitboxes; it's possible units take damage on more than just the center, but it's equally possible that the Spread rate is exactly how the game compensates for only taking damage from the center point.

 

Anyway, the RA/TS/RA2 rules files probably have more info on that. In C&C1, spread is a property of the Warhead, so that's probably the same in RA/TS/RA2

[Ford (retired)]

This guide will be the base to cost effectiveness where Mammoth Tanks are significantly worse cost efficiency than the other 3 tanks.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15qOSzmrSstHXPvnVWkZV_244EhqzsPqET8XpbuXsHN0/pubhtml

[AchromicWhite]

Also, no one's mentioned that if you play as allies online (germany) has +10% firepower.

Also, there's something, and I'm not and RA1 player, but if you get what ever the max amout of WF is where the tanks cap off, then the allied med tank becomes the best tank. Range, in large battles, also plays a large factor, as not only do the longer range tanks get to fire first, but MORE of them will be firing as the 2 forces collide.

So in larger battles, certain tanks may become increasingly cost effective.

[X3M]

Also, no one's mentioned that if you play as allies online (germany) has +10% firepower.

Also, there's something, and I'm not and RA1 player, but if you get what ever the max amout of WF is where the tanks cap off, then the allied med tank becomes the best tank. Range, in large battles, also plays a large factor, as not only do the longer range tanks get to fire first, but MORE of them will be firing as the 2 forces collide.

So in larger battles, certain tanks may become increasingly cost effective.

 

When movement is restricted and large quantities are used. The medium tank will surely win.

 

I started playing the single player missions again. And thought of trying each mission with light tanks first. I noted that some situations prefer you to use medium tanks.

Of shore support against submarines.

Choke point defences.

Landing on the beach.

It is durability and range that support in these cases. Also the concentration of strength matter here.

 

Having a mix of tanks did help in some early missions. But you better safe up and get medium tanks only in the later missions.

 

I wonder what happens when the light tank faces a medium tank while both tanks move with Q.

 

(I have started to use APC against V2 and infantry instead of the Light tanks.)