Conserving the original game and publishing maps

[AchromicWhite]

Conserving the game:
   CnCnet has provided a great place for people to come and experience a classic game, though in some cases allows modifications to be set on the game (which were not intended to be part of the game by WW, such as more then 9999 credits). There is, of course, a list of mods that you can turn on in the setup of games and even custom maps could be considered part of this.
I think it's fine that these options exist, but I think that there should be a clear difference between what you CAN do and what was intended. Perhaps some sort of check box which says "mod game" or something.

   This is something that the more I'm here the more I think it's important. I know that it's something Nyerguds felt was important when patching the game. Arguably, we could claim that lines have already been crossed by speeding the cargo plane and not having any sort of check box on that, but obviously it's not game breaking, and ultimately I think it's been a healthy change.

   Frequently, I find new players who have turned the money up to 9999999999 and checked all of the boxes (they simply don't understand and just wanted the full experience, I guess). And that's where I kinda have the issue. They wanted the 'full experience' thinking that it was the 'full game'. But those extra features often end up taking from the game, rather than adding to it. For example, the undeploy MCV actually means that you cannot sell your MCV. 

   The big thing about these sort of features is that they strait up make the game random and often harder to play. But you wont know that unless you've played the game for a long time and played in different modes. This means that for newcomers, they get swamped by things that should not have been in the game, simply because they wanted to play the full game.

A check box which unlocks extra features and also explains to the player that these are community added features might help that along.


Publishing Assets:
Not for the first time and not for the last, another of my maps has been edited and is now being circulated. I suspect with my name still attacked to it.
It mostly annoys me because my intentions of such maps is to create certain meta games off of them; and those who edit them don't understand this and change it because their way of playing simply doesn't fit what the map is meant to do. But they thought it looked pretty and so they edit it.
Let me be clear. I'm not against people making whatever maps they want to make, but I think it's rude to take and edit people's stuff. Especially without asking.
I'm not asking for people to police such behaviour, that's just crazy, but if we could have some way to publish our work, and put it somewhere where it was clear which one was the original; editable only by the owner of the work. I think it'd be really healthy for map makers.
For example. When you are using CnCnet, there is a categories for maps, which list any that you've placed into a respective folder with the name. This, of course, is just saved onto your own PC and once you play another person, it's copies onto their PC.

-Could we have an online version of these folders, that anyone can access when playing across CnCnet, which is password protected?

This would mean that there would be an official area for individuals to make maps, but maybe even a place for community collections and even an area for the original WW maps (which I think is also important to have separated in a clear way, even if just for the sake of respect).


To conclude;
I don't really care that I currently have my maps (or, not my maps, as they are now), circulating; at least not enough to ask the CnCnet team to police it. But I am asking for a place to publish my work, so that people know what IS my own work, and what is not (I'm also pretty sure I wont be the last person to care about their own work being edited in a way that is not intended). I also would like to make sure that the original game is preserved while CnCnet reaches (and rightfully so) into the future of keeping these classics alive and creating a variety of experiences for people.

[AchromicWhite]

Not really my point. I do mod, but it's maps that I'm more concerned about. Mostly because of a lack of C&C1 mods anyway, and mods are almost impossible to police anyway.

It's more about protecting published work. Having a cloud area where people can store official maps would be a great way to do that.
Imagine someone wrote a book and published it, but gave it away for free. Because it was free, someone else decided to change the message and then publish the changed version. It's a destruction of the original intent of the work. And even if the new version of it was more popular, it's NOT the point. Not only is it considered rude, but in many cases, even if the original is free, it's considered stealing.

On the not of conserving the original game: Letting newbies understand that checking all the boxes doesn't give the best experience is also important, so that they're not thrown in the deep end on entry to the game; because then we just lose our players.

[AchromicWhite]

The issue is; someone puts in years of work to create a full story, game play, feel etc, someone else comes along, takes that stuff, makes something new that took an afternoon and is like "Oh, see this, it's cool aye? Yeah, I did all that!"

When it's your own stuff, you'll get it. To be honest, until I started modding and mapping and had people take my stuff without asking, I didn't get it either. I was like "get over it, they just want to have fun making something". But I get it now.

[Tschokky]

I don't think EA can do anything about games that were made freeware years ago. I suggest you get yourself together.

[AchromicWhite]

I'm not talking about EA at all.

[AchromicWhite]

Correct. All modding of games is technically illegal. Of course it is, it's copy righted material.

However, it's known that mods often make the original games MORE popular, and so companies choose to not care (because companies like money).

[Tschokky]

Putting it on a separate platform (web) is a completely different story. I am sorry you had this experience, even though your intentions were good.

[ore_truck]

I don't mind host ticking all checkboxes but the starting credits up to a million and playing maps with tiberium infested all over is really game-breaking, I feel like playing a different version of C&C because it takes away something very important: the competition among players to conquer the resources and map control.

It does have some fun in it, you can build evrything to the full but still feels different because you can have everything (masses of tanks, tech up to superweapon) with less worries about money which isn't helping new players... Put someone who only played games with huge money and money maps on a normal game settings and map, they're the first to abort.

[AchromicWhite]

Correct ore_truck.
Which is why I think that it's important to let new players understand that there are settings that can break the game, and that they very well maybe using them.

[AchromicWhite]

There's a difference between being inspired and blatantly editing someone else's work. I can be inspired to write a book about a boy wizard without just editing Harry Potter books.

If you want to edit maps, it's simple, you ask permission.

Imagine you wrote a book, released it for free... Took you a good year to design and write.
Now. Imagine someone else came along and changed stuff in the story; and when you said "Hey, I wrote that", they say "Yeah, but people like my version better. What's wrong with that?" And maybe people even do, but...

What's wrong is that it's plagiarisation. It's considered so bad among modding communities that people are strait banned for doing it. If you take someone else's work and just make it into your own mod and release it, without asking; you pretty make have to get rid of it and apologise, else you're kicked from the community. We don't police like that over here, but if you head over to PPM and do it, you'll find out what I mean.

Now I'm not asking people to be policed, nor even to remove edited maps. People can have fun as they choose. But having space to properly publish your work is great for any mappers. It means that they can have official versions of their maps and even edit them. Sub Communities/Clans can have their own official maps, too. I think it'd be healthy for mappers and the community.

17 hours ago, 12345 said:

 

Sorry, I pushed this button and can't get rid of this silly quote thing.

Edited June 5, 2017 by AchromicWhite

[Chimas]

Erasing previous works and disregarding authors, despite the work being original or not, is a bad move.

As White said, maps were intended to be played in a certain way or were intended to make a challenge to the player in a certain way. There is nothing wrong in being civilized and acknowledge the source, it's not related to ownership, copyrights or rules. It's about giving the right to the player to have more options. When you say White is stating his rules, you're also stating yours, that are selfish too, simply because everybody is selfish anyway. To counter that, we give the player more options - today they are going to play your game, tomorrow, the previous one or another.

This is pretty obvious and reinforce the gaming community culture. When people know they will be disregarded, they won't contribute and will play other games where the community is based on more fair relations.

[Chimas]

At least read what I wrote. 

My argument is not subjective - pretending your map is better without mentioning the sources will provide LESS variety, once ppl will believe you're a master mind and there are no other options, when actually there are.

And let's see how do you perform when ppl stop making maps for you. Sooner than we expect, there will be no one making maps, that's the point you're missing.

[AchromicWhite]

Thanks for the voice of reason there Chimas.

Yeah, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to edit maps. Anyway, maps have to be downloaded to the computer of all players for them to play on it anyway. Obviously, policing this would be a nightmare.
I don't think that people should HAVE to play the game in ANY way. Do what they like, mod it, hack it, have fun with it. But the maps I'm making I'm trying to show people something; so when someone takes that and breaks it because they don't understand, it's frustrating.

What I'm talking about is having a place where people can store official version of the maps they made and be able to delete and update the list.
This can be used for people to store their own creations, or just a list for certain types. We've always had posts up in forum where we did stuff like that: Have a list of maps that we made, and then update them as we go. However, this has drawbacks...

-People have to come BACK to the post to check if there are updates to the maps
-Old maps are not deleted once they're used on CnCnet (Say you download the map, play someone else with it. Now they get the map too. Then you notice an update and replace those maps with the new version. You go and join your friend's game; but they didn't update... well now the old version gets redownloaded onto your PC. So now BOTH versions are circulating).
-People can download, and edit a map, but it still has the old author's name on it, so now there's multiple versions not even by the original creator.

Having a place where people can have official version of their maps means that everyone can still edit maps and stuff, but that everyone also knows where to find the official and up to date versions of maps. It pays tribute to those who make such content, which encourages more people to do so.
It also means that a good mapper gets more attention to their work, as more maps can be added to their map list.

I don't know where you're reading that I don't think that people should be allowed to edit stuff, Chem. That cannot be policed anyway.
I also don't recall Jacko asking me to make maps. I do what I like. That's basically how art works.

Edited June 6, 2017 by AchromicWhite

[AchromicWhite]

Why don't you just use it as inspiration instead? Also, it's polite to ask, rather than try to undermined the person you're talking to in some effort to make yourself appear of feel strong.
It's simply 4 paths that pass across the map, but they're bent.

[Nyerguds]

On 6/5/2017 at 7:20 AM, AchromicWhite said:

For example, the undeploy MCV actually means that you cannot sell your MCV. 

Pfff. Of course you can. You just need a repair bay... or a sandbag

[AchromicWhite]

3 minutes ago, Nyerguds said:

Pfff. Of course you can. You just need a repair bay... or a sandbag

hahaha
Too true... though selling in dire situations (which is far more common when choosing to sell) makes life a little harder...

Still, if they try to burst it with flyers, you can pack it up, and because it's a new unit, the flyers leave. Now sure, they can click it again, but if you then deploy it, the flyers leave once again... and then you can just keep doing that. So, with micro, flyers cannot attack the con yard xD

AND, I'll have you know I've used such a trick in an online game against someone doing exactly that.

Edited June 20, 2017 by AchromicWhite

[Nyerguds]

It'll still interrupt your construction, though.

[AchromicWhite]

Yes, you cannot make structures at the same time. But hopefully by the time they've done a flyers transition, you have other production to keep spending.
And then just push at the same time; check out how good their multi-tasking is, haha.