I want to make a fair balanced 1v1 version of green acres. Any suggestions?

[chem]

Green Acres is a very important map and I feel it is worth an update while staying very very true to the original map.

I see a divide over maps especially ones that will be used in the tournament, and I think green acres is a very important map because its the only map imo that can unite everyone all camps onto one map (perhaps)

There are players esp older players that only play the original maps , or prefer the standard maps. All their skill and experience memories etc are tied to these official authentic original maps. The problem is these maps are rather poor quality by modern standards,  not so good looking, unsymmetrical, unfair, unbalanced.  

Then there are another group that like very fair modern tournament maps,  these are modern maps done to a very high standard with almost perfect  symmetry. and a very high degree of balance,.

Then the final group are modern casual players  (some very effective/skilled at their meta) who just like fun big battle type maps, they tend to steer clear of tournament and standard maps.  Their skills are all honed for  large resources etc.

There are splits in other places but I think these are the 3 main groups and they all like different types of maps, and so there is at least a 3way  split in the community over maps.

Green acres I feel is a very important map, especially for tournament purposes,  I think its the one map that everyone likes, casuals, old pros and modern pros, and that everyone has experience on, however its grossly unfair for tournament purposes.  But with a few minor tweeks I think it is one of the few standard maps that we can convert into a tournament map.  It can be made symmetrical its already balanced fairly well for GDI and Nod,  etc. So I feel if this is done its a map that will unite everyone, and I think even the old pros might take to it if its done well and more importantly stays true to the original in feel design looks etc  

I made a rough quick go of the proposed idea,  just to see what you think of the balancing, I think the original is slightly nod bias so I tried to make this slightly more GDI friendly to balance it further (easier tiberium control better base protection) but still keeping it nice and wide open for nod. Also the symmetry has been attended to while still keeping the feel and look of the original map (to a certain extent I was quick and lazy with this)

So in short how could  I or we make a more balanced fair version of green acres that would entice older players into playing it and get everyone all happy with at least 1 map?  (this is not my thing that im doing I invite other better map makers to make a better version of GA, but if no one is interested I will do it since I feel its important)

How would you do it if you made a 1v1 version of GA??

 

 

Quick rough version as  a possible idea for more Nod-GDI balance (and better general  1v 1 balance)  while retaining the original theme

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by chem

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah, that's about right. I do think that direct NvS maps can be hard for the north, though. I have some that are NvS, but have tried to put other areas where you can fight EvW by manning chokes.
GA, of course, has little to no chokes, so it is what it is.

This looks about right for a remake of GA... Maybe a bit more resources. Particularly around more central tib fields.
I know there was a remake of Tib Garden, which was an old favourite, as well.

I'm unconvinced that GA was maybe ever that greater map, but it was played a LOT, because the original WW client didn't show previews of the maps at all, and GA was the first map on the list. Due to people not knowing what any of it was, or not remembering which map went with which name, they just clicked the first one.

Still, GA was certainly not the worst on the original list of maps. It made for decent games.

[Myg]

I like it, maybe put up a 4 or 6 player version as well?

[chem]

4 hours ago, Myg said:

I like it, maybe put up a 4 or 6 player version as well?

Will do Myg! Thankyou mate!!

[chem]

6 hours ago, AchromicWhite said:

Yeah, that's about right. I do think that direct NvS maps can be hard for the north, though. I have some that are NvS, but have tried to put other areas where you can fight EvW by manning chokes.
GA, of course, has little to no chokes, so it is what it is.

This looks about right for a remake of GA... Maybe a bit more resources. Particularly around more central tib fields.
I know there was a remake of Tib Garden, which was an old favourite, as well.

I'm unconvinced that GA was maybe ever that greater map, but it was played a LOT, because the original WW client didn't show previews of the maps at all, and GA was the first map on the list. Due to people not knowing what any of it was, or not remembering which map went with which name, they just clicked the first one.

Still, GA was certainly not the worst on the original list of maps. It made for decent games.

Thanks White, yea it is a bit too North vs South heavy I was trying to retain the look of the original too much will fix that. I did try to make it corner to corner, the airfield could be put to the right at top and the war factory was meant to be but none the less its off.  Tiberium would be fair but more natural looking.

Cool I will have to find this remake of GA, will head over to the map depot site or whatever its called.

More resources and centre got it thankyou!!

Yea sounds right I used to play RA1/Aftermath on PlayStation 1 and the 1st map was maroooned 2 , I really grew to love that map, but on the PC I think the 1st map is the path beyond, and that's very popular for that very reason I reckon.   

Edited May 11, 2018 by chem

[chem]

Guys im still messing around with the basic layout of the map, its got to be symmetrical fair and as close to the original as possible but I haven't decided the optimal layout, but this is what I think could be the most logical layout however you lose the corners of the map but you gain a map that with 2 different versions can house  1v1 for nod vs nod and 1v1 for gdi vs gdi and an interesting well balanced 2v2 match .

 

Do you think this should be the layout basic design or should I switch it up somehow? (this is obviously a rough version when ive finally decided on layout I will make it super neat natural looking fair and symmetrical )

 

please give criticisms and advice

 

edit: ok idea for red circles make the other half of the cliff the stumpy end of the cliff just for1side then it will open that corner area up and make the map look a little better

Edited October 14, 2018 by chem

[AchromicWhite]

It really just depends on what you're trying to achieve at any point of the map.

So, the question you have to ask about the red circles is just "how do I want players to interact with this part?"
Other than that, given that it's a remake of GA, it's just making sure it kinda looks like it and has the same sort of layout (which it does).

[chem]

45 minutes ago, AchromicWhite said:

It really just depends on what you're trying to achieve at any point of the map.

So, the question you have to ask about the red circles is just "how do I want players to interact with this part?"
Other than that, given that it's a remake of GA, it's just making sure it kinda looks like it and has the same sort of layout (which it does).

Thanks White, always appreciate your input mate!

[chem]

Ok Ive finished the nod vs nod version of Green Acres, save a few missing blossom trees/minor changes needed, I had to add an extra tile to the size of the map so there was a midpoint and an even number of cells, then to keep it as true to the original as possible while keeping it symmetrical and hopefully still balanced I mostly used a mirror image of half the original GA map.

 

 

 

If you think there's anything I should do to change it please let me know.

Im thinking about making a 2nd one that is a mirror image of GA but left to right mirrored so 2 GDI players can fight left to right without one having a bottom advantage. I was going to use the far right mid spot to mirror.

I would have liked to have made a  half way house spot location like with iron valley too as yet another version, but I cannot do that, there is no mirror image or spot location that will allow that and if it isn't a mirror image style map of the original I don't think it can stay true enough to the original?

Edited November 4, 2018 by chem

[Ferret]

You know there's an issue when you have to make maps specifically for mirror matches only.

[chem]

Made a few mistakes the next version will be updated, to be a full mirror image like below. That will be the nod /mixed version.

The GDI version can not be made in the style of a mirror image because all the cliffs join up and it looks ugly/weird. So im probably going back to the style of the very 1st one or very first picture but it will be iron valley style start positions and a perfectly symmetrical map only in a modern style of GA, I cant make it ultra close to the original like a mirror image but I can make it a modern version of GA that's still very close and reminiscent like white suggested. (may as well make both now since the mirror version is almost complete)

 

Unless I take the start position of the mirror image version and change it and slightly alter its position and perhaps the 1st tiberium patches layout? Perhaps put the tiberium in the corner so you don't have to harvest your base creep out (will help inexperienced players on this map) then the base can be the 1size fits all starting positions like on iron valley and you can maybe place a weapons factory in the cliffs safety to the left ?

 

Like this?

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by chem

[Ferret]

I actually like the second map design you declared.

[chem]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:57 AM, Ferret said:

I actually like the second map design you declared.

xD Thanks Champ, lmao, this is harder than I first anticipated.....

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by chem

[X3M]

I agree with Ferret. But my reasoning is that I like that layout because the players have at least a private tiberium patch.

[chem]

20 hours ago, X3M said:

I agree with Ferret. But my reasoning is that I like that layout because the players have at least a private tiberium patch.

Ok thank you X3M the reason I abandoned it was because the main exit for the left side is up meaning left would be punished for possibly bottom advantage since they would be encouraged to creep upwards not down, but I could tweak it in someway like lowering left position and all those tree's and raising right position which would free up those circle areas too (for an iron valley like start position so the top exit on left would be a good thing), but then it would no longer be a mirror image of green acres and it would be slightly further away from the original in likeness. But it does seem like a winning design.  So thanks guys!!

Trying to get it as close to the original as possible but make it fair and balanced

Edited November 11, 2018 by chem