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Cavern's and Coldest Peak are huge map's around the same size as heck lol. Funny I always found Dry Heat one of the hardest map's to play against yuri on, different styles i guess. This is the point of the thread mate, find out what and why and make changes from there. Im merely trying to understand your reasoning. Forgot to mention there are 7 veto's available currently so you could always veto those ones.

Im sorry but i disagree with you regarding SvY on all 3 of these map's. Heck - Given the size of heck its very easy to camp yourself, get your superweapons, split and put yuri under real pressure, (ive put the spots 1 vs 3 to make it easier to defend your miners) also the length of time it takes yuri to get to your base on heck gives you plenty of time to counter/block with deso's, i notice you said land unit's, obviously ignoring the best offense vs Yuri, Siege are incredible on Heck, its one of the best map's to use them on. Deploy them on your own cliff's and your camp is stronger than yuri's. But even if you dont use siege, you can easily attack in waves by splitting rhino's getting close and using the IC. I think you underestimate how much weaker Yuri becomes on a map this size. Double trouble - I understand your point about Cliff's here, but again, you have those gems and that same ability to camp? Its a pretty open map that is easy to get your superweapons on, the way you explain this is like your going to spam rhinos and charge, and yea the cliff's would make that difficult but the same can be said for yuri against tesla coils/siege choppers deployed? You would most likelly win the middle buildings here, between using them and building off your oil's this allows you to defend yourself with relative ease. It works both way's i reckon. Cavern's of Siberia, Coldest peak and Dry Heat are heavilly cliffed map's with the same issue's yet you haven't mentioned them, why not? Dustbowl - This has always been imo the 2nd best map to play SvY on, only sahara mirage is easier. The fact you will most likelly win all 4 oils puts you at a huge advantage against yuri, it allows you to outproduce and get superweapons much faster than your opponent, filling buildings yourself seriously slows the yuri down, combined with using deso camp this map is actually a nightmare for Yuri, its one of the few map's that balances out the genetic mutator aslong as you keep your oils. I would say Dune patrol, Dry Heat and offense Defense are much harder than any of these map's.

I would have thought double trouble would be one of the easiest maps to play against yuri on? I would say the same for Heck given its size. Hidden Valley I can understand, can you explain your issues with the other's? There are only 15 map's for A/S vs YR currently out of the 55 map's we have, Heck and Dustbowl have been trialled out many times in the past and seem to work out ok against the Yuri Faction to my knowledge. Perhaps you could suggest some other's to replace some with?

As of Yesterday we are now able to have any amount of map's possible in QM, I (with input from other's) have put a large mix of map's into qm to get thing's started. This is the current Map list, ive tried to include a mix of Ra2 and Yuri's Revenge Map's, to hopefully please the majority. If there are any map's you want changed, spots edited, removed, added etc please post in this topic explaining what and why. March 2018 Map List Map Allied's Soviet Yuri Dune Patrol * * * Dry Heat * * * Offense Defense * * * Heartland * * * Montana DMZ * * * Country Swing * * * No Wimps * * * Dustbowl * * * Hidden Valley * * * Divide and Conquer * * * Caverns of Siberia * * * Double Trouble * * * Heck Freezes Over (Y/S/A) (1 vs 3) * * * Coldest Peak * * * Sahara Mirage * * * Snow Valley * * Mirror Official Tournament Map B * * Mirror Jungle of Vietnam * * Mirror Tour of Egypt * * Mirror May Day * * Mirror Depth Charge * * Mirror Roundhouse Kick * * Mirror Yin-yang * * Mirror Death Valley Girl * * Mirror Stormy Weather * * Mirror Morningtide * * Mirror Pirate Bay * * Mirror Meatgrinder * * Mirror Hammer and Sickle * * Mirror North Waves * * Mirror Paris Revisited * * Mirror Face Down * * Mirror South Pacific * * Mirror Bull Run * * Mirror Strobe * * Mirror Blood Feud * * Mirror Valley of Gems * * Mirror Thin Ice * * Mirror Tsunami * * Mirror Lowlands * * Mirror City Under Siege * * Mirror Ice Age * * Mirror Lakeside * * Mirror Heck Freezes Over TvT * * Mirror Heck Freezes Over BvB * * Mirror Heck Freezes Over RvR * * Mirror Heck Freezes Over LvL * * Mirror New Height's * * Mirror River Rampage * * Mirror Sovereign Land * * Mirror Twin Peaks * * Mirror Ground Zero * * Mirror Golden State Valley * * Mirror Lake Blitzen * * Mirror

This little known bug worked on both ra2 and Yr in xwis dont know if it works here, if you are allies and a soviet drones your chrono miner if you shoot the chrono miner once then teleport it back to the refinery the drone vanishes ? Yuri clones controlling 10 units sounds hilarious.

Lol ahaha its a mistake chill ill fix it. Diiscovered we can now add as many maps as we like, ill change heck to tvt,bvb,rvr,lvl. P.S did u win? Lol If you want any other maps in just say the word.

Forget about you deliberately manipulating your connection in order to cause a wash? So basically you think its ok to cheat your way through the ladder? when you go in the same bad mood vs an allied or sov are you going to disconnect and wash them aswell? There is no defense for washing games. Cheating is the number one cause of activity level's dropping, far more effective than yuri, an actual part of the game.

lol at you. THIS IS YURI'S REVENGE. If you dont want to play against Yuri then quit or go play custom games. Disconnecting games will get you banned. learn the game, its only noobs like you who cry about it and bail and now your deliberately disconnecting, basically cheating the system. You know fine well deliberately manipulating the connection to cause a wash would get you banned on XWIS, what makes you think this is any different?

Why not go above 64? To include the 40-50 maps Grant had suggested (think it was 52) it will probably need to be close to 100.

Disconnecting/washing every game you play against yuri isn't the answer. This should and probably will be a bannable offence. If you dont wanna play against yuri go play ra2. https://ladder.cncnet.org/ladder/2-2018/yr/games/10714 https://ladder.cncnet.org/ladder/2-2018/yr/games/10712 Clearly abusing the system. Also why do these games not even show up in this player's stats? https://ladder.cncnet.org/ladder/2-2018/yr/player/Sylithium

i remember this, gunmom, gunson, gundad ahah lol

This is becoming a regular problem, JSDS, Quix and even myself one time have been victim to this. Dont think much can be done abut it given the way the system works though.

These where done with hypercam, i dont know why but even though its ran fine for streaming previously, OBS has started lagging hardcore, think i messed the setting's up somehow, message me on skype sometime you can help me sort it out

I had a look at this month and last month and there was less than 20 YvY games played. So i did some messing around with the qm client last night to try different scenarios and get results but encountered major problems. So i put 32 different maps into qm, 11 of which yuri is playable on, given how little YvY is actually played i thought this might benefit the majority, However the veto system went haywire when i did this. For the Auto Veto's (Maps YR isnt involved) it was required to be 20 then i wanted to set 4 user vetos so 24 in total. Problem is this gives Soviet and allied 24 possible veto's out of 32 maps which is outrageous imo. :/ The other end of the Scale i tryed setting the total veto's at only 4 which appeared to work, allies got 4, Soviet's got 4, Yuri got 0. But then i was informed that yuri would appear on every map, even if the client doesnt have it listed. Stuck between a rock and a hard place with this one im afraid.. Anyway at the moment there is 3 choices. 1.we can revert to the previous 21 map scenario. 2.have 32 maps with which you could face yuri on any map and be allowed 4 veto's for allies/sovs 0 for yuri 3.Have yuri limited to the 11 maps suggested and allow soviets and allieds 24 veto's each out of a possible 32. Here's the additions btw Maps that can Involve Yuri Dune Patrol Offense Defense Dry Heat Heartland Montana DMZ Country Swing No Wimps Dustbowl Hidden Valley Divide and Conquer Caverns of Siberia Maps that dont involve Yuri Snow Valley Official Tournament map B Jungle of Vietnam Tour of Egypt May Day Depth Charge Roundhouse kick Yin-yang Death Valley Girl Stormy Weather Pirate Bay Morningtide Meatgrinder Heck Freezes Over Hammer and Sickle North Waves Face Down Paris Revisited South Pacific Bull Run Strobe Obviously these can be changed/edited if 32 different maps is the preffered route.

lol! this made me laugh, he means try and catch the master minds alone and drone them, most strong YR player's will have a few sitting around their base. Also if u get enough Siege and deploy them they will destroy that entire deathball of an army with relative ease Mass Rhino imo is a bad strategy. its too easy for yuri to mind control them and grind them or land them all ontop of each other with mag's. Here's mass rhino vs yuri watch from 11:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2vVjxJ0v3U Edit : I didnt realise you where the soviet haha!

Btw this is the current map list All Faction's and match up's 1.Dune Patrol 2.Offense Defense 3.Dry Heat 4.Heartland 5.Montana DMZ 6.Country Swing 7.No Wimps 8.Dustbowl 9.Hidden Valley 10.Divide and Conquer 11.Caverns of Siberia AvS/Ava/SvS/YvY 12.Snow Valley 13.Snow Valley 14.Official Tournament Map B 15.Official TOurnament Map B 16.Jungle of Vietnam 17.Jungle of Vietnam 18.Tour of Egypt 19.Tour of Egypt 20.May Day 21.May Day 22.Depth Charge 23.Depth Charge 24.Rounhouse Kick 25.Roundhouse kick 26.Ying-Yang 27.Ying-yang 28.Death Valley Girl 29.Death Valley Girl 20.Stormy Weather 31.Stormy Weather 32.<available> The 2nd list of map's you'll notice are there twice because it has to be a seperate entity for Yuri to play on it (only against another Yuri). We could always remove them and have only the first 11 map's for yuri player's this would add another possible 10 map's for sovs/allies? Dont know what people would think of this, would probably benefit the majority but kinda limits the Yuri players, although i wonder how often YvY actually occurs? Mabye not enough to warrant an extra 10 map's? Or we could just have 32 map's and have Yuri available on every map? Seem's the easiest way to increase the map limit but then you face Yuri in crazy situations. I dont know what would work best at the moment. There is also 1 slot available so we can add another map if anyone has any suggestion's. I tryed to add amazon's delta but cant for the life of me find it in the system. Also if you have any thought's, suggestion's or idea's of how you think it would work better in the meantime feel free to let me know and ill try to fit them in accordingly.

Grant previously said about having 40-50 map's available to do this the limit would have to be around 100 scenario's possibly more. Not personally a fan of randomly generated maps if that's what you mean, nor do i think the majority will be. Given how it works you would probably find yourself in ridiculously unfair situation's. And it would take 1 slot if you involve all 3 faction's i assume. I don't see how you would be able to moderate the Yuri faction on randomly generated maps.

What about this technical limit of 32 scenarios? Can we get an answer on this please?

Im not argueing with you mate and i respect your opinion im just trying to make you understand the way it currently work's, I think if we could have a bigger more diverse map pool it would probably be more interesting for player's like yourself who dont like the way the map choices work.

Urban rush has never been in qm on cncnet to my knowledge. Not since i got involved with it anyway. Country Swing and Dustbowl are in QM because they are among the few map's that are balanced enough for all 3 faction's to play on, you gotta remember at the moment we can have only upto 32 'scenario's' This doesnt mean 32 map's, For example if we have a map that would only work as a mirror game (AvA,SvS,YvY) this would take 3 scenario's, the system we are using to do this is unfortunately very limited in the way it works. I dont understand your problem with dustbowl though, perfectly balanced map that works with all 3 faction's. Also Jungle is in Qm. 'any pro player knows heck is the king of map's' Im a pro player and i rather dislike heck, in qm it jsut becomes who get's mid first and that involves little to no skill/ability, sure we can add it though, On dune you can rush, mass war or tech for super's same as every other map out there. You have all those options on any map including dune partrol, again this just seems your opinion which im fine with, make it one of your vetoes. CS is only 7k of a difference, again this is one of the few map's that work with all 3 faction's. If they ever fix this limitation on the map choice's i think players like yourself would find it much more appealing.

There are 21 maps in qm, not 27 and not 30. 32 'scenario's' as these scenario's include YvY on the same map's, the veto you are talking about doesnt work, it keeps resetting to 15 vetoes. Currently there are 11 map's that all 3 factions can play on against each other. This means after that every other map has to be added twice 1 for allies and sovs and once for Yuri v Yuri. Bieng able to veto 9 or 10 map's out of 21 seems completely ridiculous to me, all that happens is soviet players cancel all the maps that favour allies, allies veto all the map's that favour soviet's, and everyone veto's map's that you can play Yuri on. The competitive factor of the ladder becomes redundant, it just becomes who can abuse the system the best to suit their needs better than anyone else. Personally i think you should be able to veto about a 10th of the map list if any, at the moment its at 1/7th. This would allow you to avoid bugged or unbalanced map's and a few you don't like but stops players being able to abuse the system to benefit their faction/style of play. The map's can be changed at any point people just need to ask, of course if Grant/dkeeton ever responds about this technical limit of 32 scenario's we can have 40-50 map's with a higher number of veto's available. This would probably work better for everyone. More player's would get what they are looking for from the QM system regarding the map choices. That being said its been 6 weeks since i asked the question and i still haven't even had a response, so probably not worth holding your breath.

Ok let me try this in another way, after 3-4 years of consistently pestering Grant for a ladder things began to happen, you where given control of the map selection, the issue with this was the fact you have little understanding of how Yuri worked, you may have dipped your foot in the water but the map selection you put up was clear you didnt have the experience against/with Yuri to make a reasonable list. Prep said it best when he said 'If you cant see why these map's dont work with the yuri faction the perhaps you shouldnt be the one picking them' Im not getting defensive mate, im merely trying to explain the point of View of someone who has always played YR, i wasn't alone in this view. Perhaps i could have explained it better to you and for that ill apologise, but i wont deny i was frustrated that after years of nagging it was decided to give control of the situation to someone who didnt really understand how QM would work on YR. Again there's no ill will intended here its just the obvious flaw in the way the situation was handled. Its like deciding let's make a different client and giving me control rather than you. I kept saying you never played it because while you may have done a few games here or there you never actively competed on the YR ladder for any length of time and like i said ive done so consistently for many years, you said yourself you got bored fast and left. I already told you ive been getting HOF's on YR qm since 04 and gave you a list of player's that can vouch for that, Dont really know what else i can do with this one. There are player's that still play today that i played with in 2000-2004 on ra2/yr. The topic didnt ask him what map's he didnt like, just to point out what puts him off the QM system, although there is a map topic somewhere he could have posted in but im sure he will respond in due course. I agree with you about the faction per map issue. The veto system works in the example you gave and if we ever heard back about increasing this 32 scenario limit it would probably work better, however a few weeks ago i changed the amount of possible veto's to 3, ive done this 3-4 times now, i dont know if its a bug in the system or if yourself/prep is changing it back but it keeps appearing as 15. There's only about 20 or so map's so this seems to be kinda broken. This doesnt make sense, This will not in any way make YR qm a success if anything it kills YR QM off and replaces it with Ra2. Red alert 2 is better only for Red alert 2 players, what about the player's that actually preffer YR? All that will happen in this sense is the XWIS community will get smaller as a few of them come here. Id rather play on a ladder of 20-50 player's playing YR than 100 playing ra2, This whole topic/situation is for Yuri's Revenge not ra2. Like i said to Martin it took us several years of pestering the staff here to get this far, if you want an ra2 ladder here i suggest you start pestering them now lol.

There was a way to remedy it, you should have considered the Yuri faction rather than just try to pick equal maps lol, or had the obvious thought 'hmm i dont really know much about Yuri given ive never played it, perhaps i should get some advice'. Why try read his mind, he can reply with more detailed answer's. I think the fact you can pick faction per map, and veto map's is a terrible addition.

Kinda different you put silly map's to play yuri on lol