Poll for balance changes (Community Balance Patch)

[tac]

It's been a month now. Any updates on this mod?

[Lovehandles]

20 hours ago, tac said:

It's been a month now. Any updates on this mod?

The second release of the balance patch is more or less ready to go, we just need to add it to the CnCNet client. :- )

[Hungry Mike]

On 8/17/2019 at 11:41 AM, Lovehandles said:

The second release of the balance patch is more or less ready to go, we just need to add it to the CnCNet client. :- )

You mean MOD, not patch, i guess.

[AchromicWhite]

The mod is more about balancing units (allowing a wider range of strategies, and reigning in a couple of OP units) than about balancing teams.
It's just that GDI has more unusable units in the non mirror match up, than Nod does. The MLRS sticks out very heavily in that case.

No one was ever claiming to be knowledgeable enough to make the patch (or mod) themselves, which is the exact reason we decided to let the community have their say, too.

The original game was always meant to be available along side these changes. We never had any intention of barring people from playing that.

Edited March 13, 2020 by AchromicWhite

[AchromicWhite]

It's aimed at balancing units that are either too weak (due to a range of reasons) or strong (again, for a range of reasons). So it acts exactly as a patch does, but is made by the community, hence "community patch". There was also work on an RA2 one, which was also called a "community patch" which was doing more or less the same thing, which is where we got that final bit of passion to make this happen. I guess we called it the same thing.

"Its the cnc mod that causes further imbalance when compared with the original game, is that correct?"

I don't really see how. We gave more counter play to the apache, because after playing for 20 years, the best strat I have vs apaches is to go all-in with medium tanks and hope they don't have enough money left over to defend. (In other words, ignore the apaches and just attack). (Note I'm not talking about apache cheese here... the cheese is very defendable). 
Or, take the MLRS. A unit that makes perfect sense to be a unit to tech into as Nod ramps up mass light vehicles... yet is just inaccessible due to price of tech.

Those are just two examples. And note that unlike most mods, we're not trying to change the design of the game. We're not changing the role of units.

If there is a specific part of the mod that you think makes something imbalanced, then this is a place where you can explain that, so that the community can test that issue and if they find that to be accurate, we can change it.
 

[AchromicWhite]

Never forced anyone, never intended that, never said that.
We're done here.

[mightywindr]

Good idea but no one uses it, except confused noobs, I suggest you hand over the reigns to someone else. Id like to see KIPP PHD and Lovehandles make the mod together, because they are the true elite, with the deepest understanding of the game,  and they provide a good balance of perspectives too as the current 3 are all GDI players with very uniform ideals. Still keeping Lovehandles as part of this not excluding his perspective. Its better than having White and Ferret who are low ranking players with unpopular creations,  that no one touches willingly, having too much sway over our community.

Edited October 15, 2020 by mightywindr

[mightywindr]

On the other hand maybe this should be taken off and replaced with only a weapons factory buff because everyone just wants to get good at the real game, not at a mod, and also to play the real game rather than a mod. Its just totally inactive. 

The 2nd biggest reason after nod being the best side for people going to the nod faction is the annoying weapons factory turning to dust at any moment, I think that simple change would be the only one worth making.  

Who the hell wants better stealth tanks, they are annoying enough as it is!? No one asked for that, its already well balanced just not the go to unit everytime, late game and low money its very powerful, and it probably is more useful than that but its hard to do everything at once so you tend to forget stealth's till later on. Its a horrible preference from only 3 people that are GDI players predominately, made for everyone, and its anything but balanced, and it wont ever be balanced because there are too many changes.  

Community this is not,  balance this is not. Mod this is, 3 peoples unused mod. Way to go cnc.net staff, another injustice! 

Edited October 15, 2020 by mightywindr

[X3M]

If you dislike it so much...Simply don't join a game where they  play the mod?

Also, I  respect White and Ferret a lot. They where very communicative in the past.

[mightywindr]

2 hours ago, X3M said:

If you dislike it so much...Simply don't join a game where they  play the mod?

Also, I  respect White and Ferret a lot. They where very communicative in the past.

There's no one playing the mod so I wont be doing that. Its confusing noobs though, they sometimes put it on thinking its a balance patch when its a mod. I dont respect them they are low ranking players, here and in the remasters with content no body wants but they keep trying to force it on us, its not an option its gradual constant forcing of their unpopular stuff on everyone, and they are doing it in a creepy sneaky way.

(the name of this as the community balance patch is an example of that creepy sneaky attempt to say "its just optional" or " we meant balance in a different way",  but it misleads people  but they will keep that misleading name anyway, if you are too simple you wont see the manipulation going on to get it played more ) 

Its not balanced and it never will be because too many changes have been made, its too complex to balance for any non game designer  

Also its not a community patch anyway its 3 peoples mod with minor input from the community and its all their decisions on what it will be like , WHY CANT WE DECIDE INSTEAD US THE COMMUNITY OR THE BEST PLAYERS? WHY DO LESSER PLAYERS AND INACTIVE MEMBERS DECIDE FOR EVERYONE?)

Its going to be an attempt at making it more and more official over time, special maps folders for their official maps, and trying to recruit plays to play their mod, this stuff is happening. They are toxic, get them out. 

PLEASE CNC.NET STAFF LISTEN! WE DONT WANT THEIR STUFF! THEY ARE MANIPULATING YOU AND US!

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by mightywindr

[mightywindr]

This mod should be a mod made by Lovehandles, PHD, Kipp, Mike Pence, RC, and other continuously active high ranking players, with VARYING OPINIONS on whats good and bad, and what they like and dislike. It cant just be 3 guys making their own mod and only appearing to get input form the community because no one is choosing the unit layout and changes, they are, they are confined by the poll thank goodness but ultimately they are making it and it should be made by the superior players.

Ask KIPP what he would really like to see, then you have to put that in, maybe he wants a stronger Chinook or longer ranged artillery

Ask PHD what hed really like to see you have to put that in, maybe he wants stronger Humvee's 

Ask PENCE a nod player, about the flame tank I think he wants it buffed

Then you have to let them in on the overall design they get to decide too!

 

Then it can be a success because its a good idea, but until its for everyone its a fail, its an immoral attempt to force 3 players will on everyone and its DUMB because it can never succeed unless OTHER PEOPLE like it , because it DEPENDS ON THEM to get PLAYED. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by mightywindr

[X3M]

On 10/16/2020 at 2:32 AM, mightywindr said:

This mod should be a mod made by Lovehandles

Really now?

[mightywindr]

4 hours ago, X3M said:

Really now?

It should be made by the superior players, ie Lovehandles PHD, KIPP, Mike Pence, (not just Lovehandles but not excluding him either) are you saying they are not worthy of significant  input or control over this?

Is that what you guys think? Because your actions seem to indicate that.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by mightywindr

[X3M]

Go to the first post. Who started this topic?

You don't want to include him, yet you DO want him to be included.

That is what you have been saying so far.

Your actions seem to indicate that.

[mightywindr]

8 hours ago, X3M said:

Go to the first post. Who started this topic?

You don't want to include him, yet you DO want him to be included.

That is what you have been saying so far.

Your actions seem to indicate that.

Well is Claustrophobia the map really made by Lovehandles? A guy that doesn't make maps, suddenly produces a map that looks just like White made it, in his style, nearly exactly the same , then we are told Lovehandles made it (and white isnt mentioned)  in order to get people to try it,  cmon we are not stupid, your manipulations are very weak, you cant start using Lovehandles name to get Whites work forced on on us. Which is what you are attempting to do.  

 

Regardless of the above paragraph which will obviously be disputed and spun (smart people will know the truth) as elite as Lovehandles is and he truly earned that, he is not the ONLY player here, he is not deciding for everyone, PHD Kipp and Pence are also part of the elite and they should have control too.

 

Unless you guys still think ONLY Lovehandles exclusively as you are claiming, should control whats good for everyone,!? People like Kipp PHD Pence are not worthy of control /decision making?

 

Again its obvious you guys want and think that. You will begrudgingly and manipulatively, try to avoid giving that control away. Watch...

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by mightywindr

[X3M]

So now you are claiming Lovehandles is now exclusively doing this.

yet steals work of others.

yet has to be on the job.

[Hungry Mike]

On 10/16/2020 at 2:32 AM, mightywindr said:

Ask PENCE a nod player, about the flame tank I think he wants it buffed

no way! they are WONDERFUL   

To the rest: Let them have their mod, if they want to have it, and as long as they dont force others to play it. Its called "freedom" lol. Although i would prefer a mod, where ARNOLDS would be in TD, too      

Edited October 18, 2020 by Hungry Mike

[mightywindr]

21 hours ago, X3M said:

So now you are claiming Lovehandles is now exclusively doing this.

yet steals work of others.

yet has to be on the job.

I said the smarter better players should be in charge too,  KIPP and PHD should have their control over how this looks.  They have a similar level of insight/ability as Lovehandles. Also they are Nod players and have different tastes and perspectives. So it would be more healthy for everyone if theirs more variety in preference. 

 

The lower ranking players also play this game,  I feel their contribution would be worth as much or more than yours whites ferrets and so on because they are as competent or rather a big portion are more competent, they are varied in wants its not all the same thing,  and they play more than you guys do they are active members of cnc.net . They might not be able to have the same insight as the top players but they are the community and perhaps they should have more say than a mere poll that they didnt even vote on/choose for categories.  

I suppose you think they dont count either? 

 

Also why are you guys buffing the stealth tank and not the flame tank, the stealth tank gets plenty of use, compared to the flame tank, its the flame tank that needs a buff, its the flame tank that is used as little as the MRLS and yet nothing has been buffed, its not even on the vote poll, no one is interested in the nod faction because its mostly GDI players doing this and players with a hive mind perspective, we need variety, we need nod players we need other smart minds in addition to Lovehandles who basically taught you guys GDI, and how to play, which may be why you have a very samey perspective, we need individuals with their own ideas that lead themselves.

Also how are bikes meant to counter meds when they have the MRLS with a health increase earlier? This seems seriously unbalanced.

No buff for the light tank suggested, but humvee buff is recommended, this is a joke. 

Its also open to very random choices in preference, you could buff this not that and so on there are many ways you can do it, so  in short they should be OUR choices not YOUR CHOICES

 

Also why is it called balance patch in the options its confusing noobs, call it what it is so its not open to be mistakenly used  (which is what you want) its not a balance patch its clearly a MOD, and its not a community mod its YOUR MOD 

Edited October 19, 2020 by mightywindr

[Hungry Mike]

3 hours ago, mightywindr said:

Also why are you guys buffing the stealth tank and not the flame tank, the stealth tank gets plenty of use, compared to the flame tank,

Thats because we have a big noob farm in TD. Flame tanks are superb as they are, and I am a master of them. Many fear my flimetanks! Stealths are mostly used to either troll people in ffa or secure a draw (lol), sometimes for harv harass or a nuke combo to kill a mcv. But for the main fights, flame tanks are muuuuuuuuuch more useful. Ask Phd, he got flametanked often enough with his cute inf .

3 hours ago, mightywindr said:

Also why is it called balance patch in the options its confusing noobs, call it what it is so its not open to be mistakenly used  (which is what you want) its not a balance patch its clearly a MOD, and its not a community mod its YOUR MOD

I 100 % agree on that. But its semantics. This thing is not a patch, its a mod. In TS, they made a "vet balance patch", and its really a patch, because it mostly kills bugs (and makes Arnolds stronger , but of course, i dont like it because of that alone... ohöm öhöm). This mod doesnt do that at all, instead, changes the balance completely, makes a mockery of certain units and ruins TD. You are free to do it tho, as long, as you dont force it. The terminology "patch" implies this is a "fix", and is thus misleading. They should change that. But in the end: It doesnt get forced, and thats the main point. The minute it would be forced is the minute i retire from TD. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Hungry Mike

[mightywindr]

On 10/18/2020 at 5:31 PM, X3M said:

So now you are claiming Lovehandles is now exclusively doing this.

yet steals work of others.

yet has to be on the job.

Also X3M you are talking down to people last time we played together all the noobs you think you are higher than beat you with ease and you stressed out, over it,  crying, you are not high up, you are low down, and do creepy errands for other people, its weird its not even male behaviour or female its worm like, so drop this high status behaviour its weird your are talking down to people wayyy above you. Know the  correct pecking order.

We talk down to you and humbly go easy on you not mentioning how lousy you are , thats the truth, not you talking down to us, the most basically competent average to low average players are above YOU. 

I havnt seen this much unjustified false pride since Matt Attack who ducked the noobs by leaving his  favourite  game,  to avoid people seeing they whip him, while pretending to have kids that dont exist. Then he calls us retards in his signature 

Can you not see the low character traits in this hive mind block of people its ridiculous, they are the smallest most ego bound negative weak low moral people, 

Dunning Kruger: I know all of you were not even the smartest kids at your school, now a school is a low number of people, and you were not even one there, now think of how may schools their are in your country, and now  across Europe, Asia etc, thats how LOW and AVERAGE you guys are, please GET REAL. You are normal average Joes with low courage low achievement, and weak immoral characters. You dont have some brilliant genetic ability thats the delusional self belief we all have that only some can see past.  

Let me guess you will report me with multiple hive mind accounts and mod friends,  and go pretend you are superior and in control again because you were able to "ban"  me?. (Most of you are old and still doing this weird wormy childish pathetic  behaviour) 

Edited October 19, 2020 by mightywindr

[ore_truck]

Chem, you need to calm down. I don't 100% agree with the mod but stop acting like it's being forced onto us. You even need to involve MattAttack's name! Don't worry about the noobs, the game exists for 25 years now, I'm sure they'll realize this "patch" is actually a mod since it drastically changes the gameplay. If they like it then cool, if they don't then they'll stick to the original.

And what's wrong with these good people making a mod? I'm not a pro player and I do not know how skillful these modders are, but at least they are trying to make a balanced mod that is optional. They made this very thread  to reach out to the community asking for feedback. Not to hear someone saying "it should be kipp/rc/bart who make this mod..."

[mightywindr]

BUT ANYWAY THE WHOLE ACTIVE COMMUNITY IS NOT DECIDING THIS AND ITS FOR US

THE SUPERIOR MEMBERS ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO DECIDE  EITHER 

 

AND THATS WHAT THEY WANT THEY THINK THEY ARE IN CHARGE AND YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF THAT CONTROL WHICH IS WHY THEY MANIPULATE OUT OF GIVING IT TO YOU, are they willingly handing it over? Of course not. 

(IM SURE YOU CAN SEE THE LOW LEVEL MANIPULATION GOING ON RIGHT? IM SURE YOU CAN SEE THROUGH THAT RIGHT, YOU MUST BE ABLE TO?)

 

ITS NOT A BALANCE PATCH ITS LESS BALANCED, AND CANT BE BALANCED EVER, A PURPOSELY MISLEADING TITLE

ITS NOT A COMMUNITY MOD ITS A PRIVATE 3 OR SO PEOPLE MOD

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by mightywindr

[X3M]

You are making assumptions based on your own incompetence.

Flaming doesn't make your post better.

You are constantly in contradiction.

Claiming what someone said isn't of use.

Read the posts again.

If you feel that I am talking down on you. Maybe you feel you deserve it?

[mightywindr]

1 hour ago, X3M said:

You are making assumptions based on your own incompetence.

Flaming doesn't make your post better.

You are constantly in contradiction.

Claiming what someone said isn't of use.

Read the posts again.

If you feel that I am talking down on you. Maybe you feel you deserve it?

No you were upset when noobs smashed you over and over again, and we were all going easy on you making allowances for you, trying not to let you know what we really thought to spare your feelings ,  and now you try to play teacher to me, it doesn't add up does it?  Even you have to see some kind of problem with that disparity.

The smarter guys here DONT have THAT problem.

(you've got alot of that wrong above, btw) 

Edited October 19, 2020 by mightywindr

[X3M]

Who smashed me?

When did it happen?

Why are you claiming something like that?
You think others would simply believe your rambling?

Do you know what you are saying?

On what are you basing these fantasies of your?

Why are you seeking help from the "smarter" guys?

Looks like, you have a problem?

Looks like, you are upset?

You mad bro?