GDI sucks in multiplayer, or maybe it's just me...

[Jacko]

the early-game advantage of being able to defend your WF and CY by putting them next to each other is much more worth it compared to the problems you get lategame when Nod might have a nuke.

 

For a player like me who tends to get out there in the mid-game when im rolling in cash this works quite well.

 

But yeah. Apaches. Ugh. Rocket men are good in numbers but their HP just sucks.

I wish I could put orcas on guard mode so that if an apache flys by it just chases it down and wrecks it.

[cn2mc]

Or better yet, if you could just target them in the air... Anyway, about the CY and WF being close, yeah, it's a problem in like 1 out of 20 games, that's why I mentioned it last in the list of GDI problems. Barracks and ref placement/management seems to be the most important factor when you're dealing with a bike/buggy-rushing Nod player. In all honesty, when Nod go apaches on me, I actually feel safer than when they're doing a pure airstrip build.

[MattAttack]

In all honesty, when Nod go apaches on me, I actually feel safer than when they're doing a pure airstrip build.

Yeah, I probably could've beat you in that last game (on the big circle map) had I not decided to be clever and switch to apache's.... I totally overestimated their effectiveness and underestimated your ability to defend.  What I find interesting is that it seems every Nod player goes to Airstrip after only 1 ref.  Is this the new normal?

[cn2mc]

It's always been one of the main Nod builds. You can get an overwhelming amount of early bikes/buggies that way, but you suffer economically in the long run and you're open to getting your power shut down while you're building the strip, which is absolute hell when it happens.

 

About that game, do not confuse probability with likelihood. 

[AchromicWhite]

I think it's time for more GDI players to do some 2 rax pressure then... change the meta game! xD

  -Liam

[Jacko]

I think it's time for more GDI players to do some 2 rax pressure then... change the meta game! xD

  -Liam

 

Flamers are too powerful for that to work imo.

[AchromicWhite]

You can make a LOT of grens from it... just put some near the Hand and get others to attack the con. If they don't scout first, they're gonna have issues.

  -Liam

[MattAttack]

I think you might be reading too deeply into this.  I think it depends more on the skill of the player than which side they choose.  Eddie Van Halen would still melt your face even if he was playing a $10 guitar through a $5 amplifier.

But, I do think Nod is a little easier to get the hang of.

[AchromicWhite]

Nod is certainly more noob friendly, and yes grens are better than flamers when both are microed well (IMO). Someone might be able to prove that wrong, though.

Better side? I've said Nod before, but IDK. Apaches might be what seals the deal for Nod.

  -Liam

[Ferret]

I think it's time for more GDI players to do some 2 rax pressure then... change the meta game! xD

  -Liam

 

9 rax for days.

[Jacko]

Interestingly I've recently taken more to spamming hands (and turrets) as Nod, especially against other Nod players

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah, but you never tech, bro. Flame weapons and apaches own troops. (given flame troopers are somewhat just a suicide warrior).

 

Yeah, if the distance is short, you can go hands, turrets and even apaches. Good luck to anyone trying to get a weapons factory up in that. haha

  -Liam

[Tschokky]

I really like this thread. Lots and lots of things to learn here, and I would be priviledged to play against any of you. Aside from tactical and technological issues I think it's very very important to be completely focused on the game. I noticed that I always lose if I'm not clicking/grouping/building fast enough (and simultaneously). Even though I consider myself a fair player, I find it difficult to keep up with the pace some players dictate. So aside from technological/tactical advantage, there's the advantage of the mind, which is really-really hard to work out.

 

And that's what makes C&C one of the greatest games because it tests your mind, your integrity and thinking, something Red Alert completely lacks, since you can just tank rush the other player and there you go. This is also the reason I modded RA into C&C in the first place. A slightly better interface for the great classic. I'll be coming out with a new edition soon, improving the radar minimap (hell of a work, but it makes the mod so much better, even more C&C-like).

[Tschokky]

Oh well, I have to cancel that tiberium-minimap project, because the font shadow uses the same color as the tiberium/ore on the minimap. I have no idea how to change font shadow colors in Red Alert 1....

[Skuzzy]

I've played quite a bit of C&C Tiberian Dawn. Having sat on the leader boards in the top 200 for 2 weeks after launch and now sitting at 270 on average, here are my thoughts.

First, there's a very good reason that Tiberian Dawn's multiplayer is nearly dead while RA has lots of games being played. Balance. To the people talking about Mammoth tanks and obelisks, those don't exist in the leaderboard. Ranked players don't even build radar stations because that's money that goes to units. Nod can completely overhwhelm GDI with bikes and buggies within 4-5 minutes so there's no way you can afford to tech up and get enough units mobile enough to protect your harvesters. High rank GDI doesn't exist with the exception of players who cheese by learning all the map spawns and moving their MCV directly to your base at the start of a game to rush you with grenadiers. Aside from that GDI doesn't exist at high level play. With the exception of a few maps due to choke points (it should be clarified in the ranked pool almost none of these maps are present), the majority of maps allow Nod to completely overwhelm opponents with cheap units from multiple entry points at once. GDI has no real response to attack bikes unkless the playing microing them is sloppy, lagging, or the GDI player has literally every entry point to their base covered which only  works until their harvesters need to leave the safety of their base which doesn't take very long. Even in the scenario where GDI holds off Nod at their base, for every 3 tanks GDI can afford, Nod has 2 and a half bikes that are much more manouverable. GDI leaves their base with their slow wall of tanks and turns the game into a base race Nod wins due to faster units + numerical advantage. Tht's before you even consider time factors, not just money factors.

Nod is basically all there is at top play unless GDI players spam rush grenadiers. Your other option is engineer cheese which basically doesn't exist in RA which is why Tiberian Dawn is inferior in multiplayer. Red Alert has decent balance, Tiberian Dawn has one effective faction.

If you're building high tech units in ranked you've already lost, sorry, or at an extremely low level of play. And static base defenses wont stop 20-30 bikes from poaching your harvesters with complete impunity, andonce your economy is crippled and Nod has total map control because they can outrun all your units, you're either forced to base race vs faster, larger groups of units or wait until the number of bikes/buggies is so overwhelming you have zero chance of winning anyway. This is also ignoring a competent player can also just micro units to dodge tank fire which totally negates GDI's one actual advantage over nod in terms of vehicles which is raw fire power. 

When I go into ranked and face GDI it's a 100% win unless they MCV rush and use grenadiers. Nod is king in this game. C&C is a great experience for SP but don't come in expecting to say you're good when most of the time you win is largely off the horrendous balance that renders GDI completely useless against even a semi-competent nod player.

 

[mightywindr]

Obviously different maps, different timed points in a game, and different tactics/builds used change which side is better, its situational and fluid,  but overall Nod is the better side. Its better under a wider range of circumstances.

If you look at the top 10 Nod and GDI players on remasters, before the rules change, and look back at the 90's era, its probably all Nod players in the top 10, or at least its predominately the Nod faction winning out. When you get to that high rank or position, it must come down to game balance more than skill. Until a high enough level of competition is reached the individual skill of a player is a larger factor.  

There are other factors to consider like how easy a faction is to learn, or the balance of the maps in play, etc but none of them are significant enough to change the simple explanation I've given above.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by mightywindr