)))))) Ravage you're the best.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

[SubZ3r0]

20 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

I risk sounding like a braggart, but do you know how much work I put into a map of Oceania?
Just for understanding, I'll tell you that there are 5200 trees on this map. And I put absolutely every tree by hand and saw if it looked good in this place, and then I removed it, moved it a few cells to the side and then moved on to another tree.
And so I did with stones and spots on the grass and in general with everything else. I even made water by hand. There is no overlap of one tile of water on another.
I also thought carefully about every game moment on the map. I tested so that aircraft carriers could reach each bunker, so that the centers of the bays would not be shot through by prisms, and the passages to them would be shot through, I carefully designed each small island, planned how the struggle would take place on it. I thought carefully about all the distances between the islands. I have every reason to be proud of this creation of mine.

And you just added a few gold tiles to someone else's map and write your name there.

 

My man, this map (and others) looks great, but doesn't play that good, thus the need for some edits to make it suitable for competitive games.

[McPwny]

i disagree. cccp's maps all play well just the way they are in my experience. he also patches them based on feedback, mind you. not to say ravages' edits arent good, because they are. though it would have been better if he made his own maps or at least edited non-official maps as submissions with the creators permission.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

7 hours ago, McPwny said:

at least edited non-official maps as submissions with the creators permission.

I asked creators who were available in advance, most of them are happy with my edits and offer their maps up with pleasure.

[bbglas007]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:49 AM, SubZ3r0 said:

 

My man, this map (and others) looks great, but doesn't play that good, thus the need for some edits to make it suitable for competitive games.

Competitive games are happening on these maps
You will see some posts in the near future

[CCCP84]

On 5/27/2021 at 4:49 AM, SubZ3r0 said:

 

My man, this map (and others) looks great, but doesn't play that good, thus the need for some edits to make it suitable for competitive games.

This map has good 2v2v2v2 games. And when all players are good. In this case, it turns into geopolitics. Power balance, situational alliances. This is extremely interesting. You just need to understand the essence of this confrontation. On this map, RA2 turns into a 100% strategy. Whereas most of the tank battles on CNCNET are more like an arcade.
Not all players will like this map, but there are enough people who understand the essence of the game here.

Games are long here. There are no fast games on Oceania. But, for example, I like long games. And I found friends who like it too.

Different people, different preferences.

[SubZ3r0]

43 minutes ago, CCCP84 said:

This map has good 2v2v2v2 games. And when all players are good. In this case, it turns into geopolitics. Power balance, situational alliances. This is extremely interesting. You just need to understand the essence of this confrontation. On this map, RA2 turns into a 100% strategy. Whereas most of the tank battles on CNCNET are more like an arcade.
Not all players will like this map, but there are enough people who understand the essence of the game here.

Games are long here. There are no fast games on Oceania. But, for example, I like long games. And I found friends who like it too.

Different people, different preferences.

 

What I see is "Gap it and Camp on him" style of map, imo what killed CNCNET competitivity is the enormous amounts of noobish maps like this where strategy and units control have 0 influence on the winning side, just spam navyards and you will be fine.

[CCCP84]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:47 PM, SubZ3r0 said:

 

What I see is "Gap it and Camp on him" style of map, imo what killed CNCNET competitivity is the enormous amounts of noobish maps like this where strategy and units control have 0 influence on the winning side, just spam navyards and you will be fine.

Well, it looks like you know the key to victory. Just use your tactics and you will win. Only, I'm afraid you will be disappointed. And with this strategy you will be a noob.

[burg93]

The issue with Ravage edits is he does take ownership of the map, when it is not his map at all. In the last year myself and the YR QM team edited Heck Freezes Over and Malibu Cliffs, very minor tweaks to help balance for QM. I certainly didn't put my name on the map. Ravage yelled and screamed at me that I edited "his" map. So I agree with @CCCP84 

My main issue with your maps @CCCP84 is that you edit the units and add mods into your maps. You put incredible detail and thought into the map, but then you start editing the range and speed of units without any warning to the players that you have edited the units. I would suggest to leave the units and gameplay alone and focus on changing the map. With the unit changes you provide you should at least provide a Briefing tag. ?
I would love to add your maps to the Battle section in the YR client but without any unit mods.

[CCCP84]

14 hours ago, burg93 said:

My main issue with your maps @CCCP84 is that you edit the units and add mods into your maps. You put incredible detail and thought into the map, but then you start editing the range and speed of units without any warning to the players that you have edited the units. I would suggest to leave the units and gameplay alone and focus on changing the map. With the unit changes you provide you should at least provide a Briefing tag. ?
I would love to add your maps to the Battle section in the YR client but without any unit mods.

   As for the Black Sea map, it does not have these mods. All unit parameters are completely standard there. There are some modifications of civilian units that act as an obstacle on the bridge. But that doesn't apply to gameplay. Black sea shouldn't be controversial, I think.
As for Oceania and Storm, I will explain my position again. Long distances on the map result that Kirov and V3 rocket being excluded from the gameplay. Their original parameters are just fine for Black Sea and for many other maps, but not for these two. In their original state, they are absolutely useless there. The V3 rocket cannot reach even the second half of the large island by firing from the first half. Its original range looks ridiculous on this map. Kirov also. It takes ages to take it to another island. Moreover, its original speed appeared to be reduced on this map. It seems to the players that it is slowed down. This effect is created by the size of the map. Therefore, no player will ever notice changes in the speed of the Kirov.
   The main notable difference is the V3 range. But even after increasing range, the rocket can only reach the nearest small islands and no further, firing from the main island.

   As for the briefing. I myself wanted to add a briefing to my maps, but this feature is implemented badly in CNCNET. The briefing closes the map preview, it just disfigures the map in the lobby. I'm sure you should redo this function. We need to make a separate "briefing" button under the map preview. And so that only after clicking on it, the briefing appears in the form in which it is now. But by default, the briefing should not close the map preview. If you do so, I will be happy to add a briefing to my maps. Now I'll explain why I don't want my maps to be added to the client without my unit adjustments. This will lead to the fact that we will still play the version from the "Standard" section with my corrections. Maps from the "battle" section will be unclaimed. Although some players will play them, in this case, some units will be excluded from the gameplay. I would not like that.
   Can I ask for a small exception for my maps, given that my changes are not very significant? No new weapons or units, just some range change for V3. The rest will be unnoticed by the players. As you mentioned, I have been very careful about the details of the map, having thought through every detail carefully. Also, I have carefully thought through the changes to some units, making the gameplay on these maps perfect. Also, you may have noticed how conservative I am about making changes to the original game. Now you can understand that I would not make unnecessary modifications. All the changes were due to the need to return some previously useless units here in the gameplay.

   In the game, everything looks quite standard. Players will not be confused. All these changes do not need any clarification. And as I said, they will often be simply unnoticed by the players. If you want, I can go into the game with you and test Kirov, for example. You will not see the changes. And Kirov will not reach anywhere if only one Aegis goes to intercept it.

Edited June 8, 2021 by CCCP84

[bbglas007]

I'm not sure if burg has properly played Oceania. I played Oceania 15+ times without noticing any unit changes. I only noticed them when you told me cccp84. I didn't believe you so I had to open the map in notepad?

[Human]

I playing this map 3 years, saw all versions from 1.0 to 3.5 and I want to say that all changes makes for balance. No one with whom we played before spoke negatively and the majority did not notice the changes,  even I, who playing so much time. 

Unless the radius of v3 missiles can be noticeable - but for this map this is the ideal solution, otherwise v3 is an absolutely useless unit.
I am an ardent opponent of mods - I don't even like Yuri's Revenge. The map has a great balance. 

[CCCP84]

13 hours ago, burg93 said:

I would love to add your maps to the Battle section in the YR client but without any unit mods.

   Hey dude, now I can see that you included these maps in the update. That's cool. I think it's not a problem that these maps are in the "mod" category. Players who are interested can always find them there. ???✌️  These are great maps. 3 of my best that I'm proud of.
   Hey guys, now I practically have my own section in the CNCNET client. ))
My maps there take up half of all maps there ☺️

[burg93]

8 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

   Hey dude, now I can see that you included these maps in the update. That's cool. I think it's not a problem that these maps are in the "mod" category. Players who are interested can always find them there. ???✌️  These are great maps. 3 of my best that I'm proud of.
   Hey guys, now I practically have my own section in the CNCNET client. ))
My maps there take up half of all maps there ☺️

Awesome maps @CCCP84?, they will be played a lot ?

[Ezer_2000]

21 hours ago, burg93 said:

My main issue with your maps @CCCP84 is that you edit the units and add mods into your maps. You put incredible detail and thought into the map, but then you start editing the range and speed of units without any warning to the players that you have edited the units. I would suggest to leave the units and gameplay alone and focus on changing the map. With the unit changes you provide you should at least provide a Briefing tag. ?
I would love to add your maps to the Battle section in the YR client but without any unit mods.

Yes I love his map layouts too, but the maps itself aren't suitable for a common gameplay because of mods. I'm already asked him to make an unmodded version back ago. And he even did one (I can't remember what one exactly). I would suggest him the same thing - to make unmodded versions too.

17 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

The briefing closes the map preview

Not really. It disappear as soon as you move mouse arrow over it.

[Ezer_2000]

16 hours ago, bbglas007 said:

I'm not sure if burg has properly played Oceania.

Well you and mr.CCCP84 are the best players around. No shit xD

[McPwny]

personally, ive always preferred to play the unmodded versions. black sea has always been my favorite. anyways, im glad to see that his maps have made official and hopefully we can see some more content from cccp in the future.

[CCCP84]

31 minutes ago, McPwny said:

personally, ive always preferred to play the unmodded versions.

have you played oceania? Did you use a V3 rocket or Kirov in an unmodified version?

[CCCP84]

These mods are not the mods that people usually mean. These are minor range and armor adjustments. Just adaptation for a specific map.

[McPwny]

i actually played oceania less than the others because its so big. the way i see it is that of course the V3 is going to suck on these maps; they are naval maps and the V3 is a land unit.

i dont like playing with the balance modded versions because even though ra2 balance is not that great in general, i still can know exactly how units will interact with eachother in vanilla and with stat tweaks it always puts anyone not adjusted to them at an unfair disadvantage.

[CCCP84]

9 hours ago, McPwny said:

i actually played oceania less than the others because its so big. the way i see it is that of course the V3 is going to suck on these maps; they are naval maps and the V3 is a land unit.

i dont like playing with the balance modded versions because even though ra2 balance is not that great in general, i still can know exactly how units will interact with eachother in vanilla and with stat tweaks it always puts anyone not adjusted to them at an unfair disadvantage.

   However, some land battles are foreseen in Oceania.
   You see, the V3 rocket is a heavy ballistic missile with a long range. It was well conceived by the Red Alert developers (it is inherited from Red Alert 1). I simply returned its function to this rocket in the form in which it was conceived. The Soviet side itself is rather limited in armaments in red alert 2. They have no prisms and mirages. And this rocket is becoming an important assault tool. I was simply obliged to return this weapon to the game.
   Oceania has protected fortresses in the corners, just as there are in the Black Sea. players can take cover there when their main territory is occupied. This fortified area is very difficult to take by storm. Especially if the defending player is an alliance, and the attacker is a Soviet one. This missile can help the Soviets in this. Conversely, a Soviet player, locked in a corner and limited in resources, can strike from afar at enemy targets on the main part of the island.
And this kind of struggle is really used in battles. I could observe it myself and participate in such a struggle. Without this rocket, the assault on the fortified area by the Soviets will be extremely difficult. The same applies to the sheltered high ground on the central island.

I don't like mods myself. But these changes were dictated by the need and made after a huge gaming experience on this map. I made everything look as close as possible to the original gameplay. In fact, only this rocket can be spotted by players with differences. You cannot distinguish Kirov from the original, even knowing that it has been changed.

Edited June 9, 2021 by CCCP84