WIP-Tiberian Dawn for Pros (replacing original campaigns) testing/ideas

[MattAttack]

I have tried once again. Just the way you described. But i failed again. ( i suck i know, but might be tje beer this time) . Can you post a vodeo how you do this missio5?

 

Here you go:

 

https://youtu.be/xfmT_mwPIFA

 

I think the only thing I've changed in this version is that the hovercraft now reinforce 2 mediums instead of 3 humvees.  To keep it fair, I left the tanks where they landed.... pretty much.  Also, I was going to leave the cash crate untouched, but I accidently ordered my units to attack that building near the end of the vid and got it.  I also reveal the location of another cash-crate which I don't use.  Had a couple of close calls and thought I might lose, but in the end I persevered.  Oh, I'm also using the Japanese language add-on in this vid for fun.

 

[X3M]

Great show.

I guess that leaving that one power plant alive refrains a trigger, right?

[MattAttack]

I guess that leaving that one power plant alive refrains a trigger, right?

There isn't an attack trigger attached to the power plant, but attacking it will cause the enemy to automatically launch a big counter attack.  Capturing it *usually* doesn't cause this reaction.  I just wanted to show the mission could be done without retrieving the crate. 

[X3M]

Good, I finally succeeded. It is a matter of getting the airfield and vehicles. Instead of relying on infantry in the start. Also getting your base expanded towards tiberian is still important, but that was something I already did.

 

However;

- I still played at -1 speed.

- Sold all buildings on the island.

- Sold the Chinook as well for that extra 750.

- Sold all the infantry.

- Sold the 3 humm-vees. Because lets face it, they are rather useless here .

- Captured both crates this time.

- Instead of 6 harvesters, I had 10, with 5 refineries.

- Only went light tanks, had like 30 before I attacked.

 

Overall, it is indeed a hard mission. But it seems that engineers can walk around freely when the AI is occupied fighting my tanks. It is important to get an army big enough so that causalities are less than the rebuild.

[MattAttack]

It is a matter of getting the airfield and vehicles. Instead of relying on infantry in the start.

Well, each person has their own style   I definitely rely a lot on infantry, although vehicles are crucial once they start sending waves of their vehicles at you!  If you arrange it so you're building strictly GDI, you gotta rush them ASAP because without the ability to build bazooka men or tanks, you're rather defenseless against their onslaught of tanks.....  If you build a Hand of Nod before you sell the Nod CY though, you'll be able to build rocket men from your barracks!

But it seems that engineers can walk around freely when the AI is occupied fighting my tanks.

Ah, the limitations of TD.... I ran out of triggers to counter this   (hit the maximum of 40) Could've had them send an engineer to recapture their structure it once you entered!

[X3M]

I always, ALWAYS, sell a captured building right away if it is an assault engineer.

Only if a structure is isolated, I keep it...

 

If you see a chance of using triggers to get rid of sandbags, be my guest. That will make my job harder too.

[MattAttack]

If you see a chance of using triggers to get rid of sandbags, be my guest. That will make my job harder too.

ok, you lost me there, what do you mean?

[X3M]

The AI ignores walls that you build.

You can build from walls.

I got the enemy construction yard by taking over one of the hand of nods, then a sandbag was placed before I sold the hand of nod. The AI kills my infantry, but ignores my sand. I extended the line of sandbags just enough, that I could build a new hand of nod, and spam engineers right next to the construction yard.

 

This tactic can be stopped if the AI is triggered to destroy all sandbags or other walls.

Maybe for another mission, since you reached the trigger limit.

IF, a trigger is possible.

 

 

[MattAttack]

Sadly, there's nothing we can do about AI not attacking sandbags  

[X3M]

Are you able to disable them in the game? I mean, no one builds walls. Except for these kind of tricks.

Setting their tech level to 98 or something would be enough. If it is possible to do for a custom map.

[Nyerguds]

Nope. It isn't. This isn't RA; C&C1 has no in-mission rule tweaks system, besides the one for capturability I added with the patch.

[MattAttack]

Are you able to disable them in the game? I mean, no one builds walls. Except for these kind of tricks.

Setting their tech level to 98 or something would be enough. If it is possible to do for a custom map.

I am purposely not hacking or modding the game in any way.  I find it enjoyable and challenging to push the game to its limits as it was originally designed.  You can even totally wall in your opponent's base and they're powerless to do anything about it.  That would be kinda lame, though

[Jacko]

Surely the whole point of a "pro" campaign is to beat it without ever using sandbags?

The only exception is maybe a wall piece protecting an obelisk

[MattAttack]

Yeah,  I always assumed the 10 people on the planet who'd be interested in this wouldn't want to cheese like that... 

[Kilkakon]

Yeah sandbags are a crutch! Haha. I refuse to use them.

 

Forgive the necro post but this:

Let me just say "allow win" is one of the most dysfunctional triggers in the game.  I even looked at the original/covert ops missions and found it didn't even work right in those!  In "the tiberian strain," there is an "allow win" trigger for killing all the gdi units.  I tested it and it doesn't even work!  In the actual WW missions!  sheesh.  BUT, I figured out a workaround* so you are able to win by killing all neutral and gdi units.  If anybody cares, lol!

 

*it involves reinforcing a money c-17 to the special house for "all units destroyed" when all GDI units destroyed, and another for when all neutral units destroyed.  The actual "win" trigger is achieved when the special house reaches a certain amount of credits..... (and special is allied with ALL houses involved, so there's no c-17s trying to "bomb" anything)

I feel stupid for not thinking of this when I had to fix up Goatmessiah's map XD I suppose I hadn't thought of credits trigger as I've never used it but hey (used some offmap reinforcement shenanigans)

[MattAttack]

Oh yeah, that C-17 thing is an *AWESOME* workaround-- and I'd think it would come in particular handy for your mod.  Too bad I ran out of triggers on both maps I made for it... lol

[Chimas]

Well, I had one, tiny weeny, itsy bitchy,.. idea ...

 

... What do you think? (If I would have time and the knowledge, I would make this mission myself)

 

I suggest to call this mission "Decimmandos" which is a short for "decimated Commandos" ...

[MattAttack]

Well, I've finished all mission 5's (3 for GDI, 1 for Nod)  and now moving on to GDI 6 which was the commando mission in the original campaigns.  As many of you know, there was the logic that if you blew up the airfield, it would automatically skip mission 7 and I'm trying to think of a cool way to exploit this.  My original intent was to actually try to make mission 7 a hidden bonus mission but I can't think of a cool way to force the player to destroy the airstrip last.  Unfortunately, cap=win/dest=lose doesn't trigger the mission skipping logic   I'm open to any ideas.....

[X3M]

It never happened to me, but there was a rumour.

Can an engineer take over an APC?

 

If so, then you need to get an APC from the enemy. This for going over a tiberian field that is too large to cross for any other infantry unit.

So, if it is possible to take over an APC. Then I have an idea for you.

[Jacko]

Engis can steal chinooks (and so can commandos for some reason) but not APCs

 

My suggestion is probably a re-write of the original mission, have a small force target an important building (say a biolab or something), but theres two of them on opposite sides of the map, and if you destroy the wrong one you have to go back and destroy the right one...... or something.

[Nyerguds]

Commandos can steal chinooks for the same reason engies can; they have the "infiltrate" option set. Of course, for commandos it's part of their bombing logic, but since that only applies to structures, they can indeed capture helicopters.

 

In real life, I think a commando would have a hell of a lot easier time taking over a chinook than an engineer

Can an engineer take over an APC?

Technically... if the apc is docked to a repair pad. Any vehicle can be captured that way, really. You can technically give vehicles to an ally that way in multiplayer

[cn2mc]

It's also cool that chinooks can be captured with men inside. So you're like 'hey! Free chopper', and then you unload a bunch of enemy troops inside your base.

[MattAttack]

It's also cool that chinooks can be captured with men inside.

I'm assuming you mean occupied chinooks can't be captured.

Technically... if the apc is docked to a repair pad. Any vehicle can be captured that way, really. You can technically give vehicles to an ally that way in multiplayer

Alas, I cannot get an enemy to "dock" with a repair bay and pre-placing a unit on a repair bay does not dock it... in fact it makes the unit inveunerablle unless it's moved.

 

Now, let me clarify what I was asking.  To reiterate, going by what Nyer has stated in the past and all my testing has indicated, in the GDI commando mission destroying any building ends the mission.  All non-airfield structures cause the player to proceed normally to mission 7.  If you actually destroy the airfield some specific piece of programming skips mission 7 and goes directly to 8.  My intent was to reverse this and have the player be given the specific goal of capturing the airfield (skipping to mission 8 ) and have a secret building located off in the corner which when captured would take the player to a "secret mission" (mission 7) where the player would have some easy goal where they'd get a bunch of cash and utilize the "carry over cash" function to totally change the way mission 8 is played.  Unfortunately I wanted to have cap=win/dest=lose be the trigger on the airfield but that does not trigger the mission skipping code. 

 

I don't know if any of that makes sense but here's a basic diagram:

 

Looks like I'm just going to have to redo the Commando mission on steroids.  Oh well, foiled by the limitations of the game

[cn2mc]

Umm, no. I meant that occupied chinooks can be captured. I've had this happen on several occasions, when I'd capture one with the engineer inside, and when I'd later unload, the engi would be alive and well, and would still belong to the enemy. Maybe it has to do with the engi being unarmed, or maybe it just happens as a glitch, IDK. About the repair bay, I don't think the AI can move on that at all, aside from it's orca repair logic. Human players can use the alt+move function to cross enemy repair pads, but they can't 'dock'/do actual repairs, unless allied, IIRC.

[MattAttack]

oh wow... I never experienced that Chinook thing before.... was this in a multiplayer game?  Yeah, to my knowledge, you're absolutely right about the repair bay stuff.