Are these units of any use in competitive/pro games

[ReaperAA]

The units in question are:

• Flak Troopers
• Tesla Troopers (other than from charging Tesla Coils)
• Crazy Ivans
• Robot Tanks
• Tank Destroyers
• Tesla Tanks
• Terrorists
• Demolition Trucks

If any these units are underpowered, then what would be your suggestion to buff them. 

[McPwny]

flak troopers are fine 
tesla troopers need speed or range or price change. they dont work how they should 
crazy ivans are okay 
robot tanks are really niche use and high liability. idk add trainable=yes or lower cost 
tank destroyers are pretty stupid tbh the warhead needs to be reworked   
tesla tanks should opportunityfire like literally every other short range tank with a turret can do. maby slight hp boost 
terrorists are retards and no one likes them 
demo trucks are fine how they are

[ReaperAA]

First of all, I thank you for replying to my threads McPwny. You are pretty much the only person who has replied to them so far ?

The reason I am making these threads is because I am working on a private balance patch (that I may share on the forums depending on my mood).

Now getting back to topic.

19 hours ago, McPwny said:

flak troopers are fine

Really? I always thought that they are useless and flak track are better in almost every way. I was considering a cost reduction (from 300 to 200) or a range+damage increase for their Anti Air weapon.

19 hours ago, McPwny said:

tesla troopers need speed or range or price change. they dont work how they should

I thought of pretty much the same thing. I was considering buffing their range from 3 to 4.75 or 5.

19 hours ago, McPwny said:

crazy ivans are okay 

Wow, I didn't knew Ivans are also used.

19 hours ago, McPwny said:

robot tanks are really niche use and high liability. idk add trainable=yes or lower cost

Yeah I was considering a cost decrease from 600 to 500 and also a cost+power decrease for the robot control center.

19 hours ago, McPwny said:

Tank destroyers are pretty stupid tbh the warhead needs to be reworked

I have a buff list for this unit. The buffs include range increase from 5 to 6.5, damage increase from 150 to 175 and warhead changed so that it can 1-shot Terror Drones and do far more damage to miners.

19 hours ago, McPwny said:

terrorists are retards and no one likes them

I am out of good ideas on how to buff this unit but I thought about damage/hp increase for them.

19 hours ago, McPwny said:

demo trucks are fine how they are

On second thought, maybe you are right. While they aren't used in 1 vs 1 situation, they can be useful in a team game (*cough* chronoshifted + iron curtained Demo Trucks *cough*) 

Edited August 13, 2020 by ReaperAA

[[CC] RaVaGe]

3 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

The reason I am making these threads is because I am working on a private balance patch (that I may share on the forums depending on my mood).

I already did this and MustacheX already did this too.
His balances for without superweapons.
Mine for both without and with.

I don't see how you're going create a decent balance patch without understanding the game play meta or unit roles...

[McPwny]

they teach in game design that general imbalances are what you want, as long as one thing isnt something overpowered and uncounterable. the reason being, is that the game will devolve into a meta game where the goal is to use that one uncounterable thing better than everyone else, undercutting the rest of the game's content. especially for RTS games.

i have seen your proposed patch with my own eyes ravage and can only describe it as random tweaking of every damn knob and dial in rulesmd.ini. the smart thing to do would be to give very specific tweaks to the few worst offenders of the meta-game, and then after that gently tweak some of the unusable units into usability.

but you know, this is a twenty year old game and all, i dont have time to pester neogrant into pushing my maps and ini mods or whatever

[ReaperAA]

2 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

I already did this and MustacheX already did this too.
His balances for without superweapons.
Mine for both without and with.

Really? Can you provide the dl links to both your's and MustacheX's ini files. I would like to see them. Also I hope that they make weaker countries (like Germany, Russia etc.) better as well.

 

2 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

I don't see how you're going create a decent balance patch without understanding the game play meta or unit roles...

You are right. One needs to understand the meta to create a good balance patch. Which is why i have no intention to post my patch anytime soon.

I am understanding the game by watching games of pros and playing online myself (I am nowhere near pro but I have definitely improved my game through watching pro games.) 

[[CC] RaVaGe]

My Rebalance Mod

It goes beyond balancing the game and tweaks some stuff to add more strategic depth and complexity to the game.

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, RaVaGe said:

My Rebalance Mod

It goes beyond balancing the game and tweaks some stuff to add more strategic depth and complexity to the game.

 

I haven't tested yet but I am really liking most of the changes so far.

[a1nthony]

Ivan’s are good, flak troopers aren’t bad, robot tanks are average against Yuri and useful on water maps sometimes. Tank destroyers are ok since the build speed is quick...  America/Korea are just better. 

[ReaperAA]

10 hours ago, a1nthony said:

Tank destroyers are ok since the build speed is quick

I humbly disagree. Tank Destroyers are extremely clunky and they are not really that good at their "Anti-Tank" role either (they can barely beat Rhino Tanks in a head-on battle).

Also once Battle Fortresses are available, they become obsolete. Because pretty much anything TDs can do, GGI Battle Fortresses can do better.

Bryan Vahey highlighted the problem with TDs in this video

 

[XGalaxyZ]

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

I humbly disagree. Tank Destroyers are extremely clunky and they are not really that good at their "Anti-Tank" role either (they can barely beat Rhino Tanks in a head-on battle).

Also once Battle Fortresses are available, they become obsolete. Because pretty much anything TDs can do, GGI Battle Fortresses can do better.

Bryan Vahey highlighted the problem with TDs in this video

 

You forgot to mention. Yuri Brutes. are also OBSOLETE! Unless you farm money with them With the cloning vats and genetic mutator. Its 500$ Only 200HP And even a single desolator or a allies player With Prism Tanks/Mirages and Seals. Would Melt. Yuri Brutes without any trouble. Personally i would give Brutes. The same HP they have in Mental Omega.

[rocker219]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:30 AM, XGalaxyZ said:

On 8/12/2020 at 8:23 AM, ReaperAA said:

The units in question are:

• Flak Troopers
• Tesla Troopers (other than from charging Tesla Coils)
• Crazy Ivans
• Robot Tanks
• Tank Destroyers
• Tesla Tanks
• Terrorists
• Demolition Trucks

If any these units are underpowered, then what would be your suggestion to buff them. 

 

 

okay I used to play a lot and was very good back in Westwood online and xwis  ladders so here is my take.

 

flak troopers are amazing. Easy counter to allied air and crazy good vs Kirov airship

Tesla troopers. Super essential to base crawling with soviet. Also good to nuke opponents power plants

 

crazy Ivan’s. Stupid good at sniping derricks. Also good at make shift demo trucks

 

robot tanks - don’t get me started on how utterly amazing these things are. Float on water, cheap and maneuverable. Have won many games using these as something to agitate with.

 

tank destroyers,  basically a cheap mirage tank. You there also so freakin. Good that you don’t need a lot. They tank desos well and freaking rip through any tank. Your silly to underestimate a tank destroyer Ava. Or avs.

 

Tesla tanks. Talk about a all in one. Strong vs everything. When used with fodder . Will freaking be the last tank standing. 
 

terrorist - I mean talk about a buildings worst nightmare cheap and destructive. Just way point that shit to your enemy power and gg. Can be used as make shift demo trucks. Infantry beware.

 

demo truck- a mini nuke. What else is there to say. Wanna get your opponent To stop thinking about something other then massing resources and trying to win? Build this defend it then show your opponent the true value of Libya with a mini nuke in the face. 
 

 

hope this shines light to all their values as a unit

[XGalaxyZ]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:02 AM, rocker219 said:

 

okay I used to play a lot and was very good back in Westwood online and xwis  ladders so here is my take.

 

flak troopers are amazing. Easy counter to allied air and crazy good vs Kirov airship

Tesla troopers. Super essential to base crawling with soviet. Also good to nuke opponents power plants

 

crazy Ivan’s. Stupid good at sniping derricks. Also good at make shift demo trucks

 

robot tanks - don’t get me started on how utterly amazing these things are. Float on water, cheap and maneuverable. Have won many games using these as something to agitate with.

 

tank destroyers,  basically a cheap mirage tank. You there also so freakin. Good that you don’t need a lot. They tank desos well and freaking rip through any tank. Your silly to underestimate a tank destroyer Ava. Or avs.

 

Tesla tanks. Talk about a all in one. Strong vs everything. When used with fodder . Will freaking be the last tank standing. 
 

terrorist - I mean talk about a buildings worst nightmare cheap and destructive. Just way point that shit to your enemy power and gg. Can be used as make shift demo trucks. Infantry beware.

 

demo truck- a mini nuke. What else is there to say. Wanna get your opponent To stop thinking about something other then massing resources and trying to win? Build this defend it then show your opponent the true value of Libya with a mini nuke in the face. 
 

 

hope this shines light to all their values as a unit

Not sure if your high or not But i completely disagree. with everything you said. heres why

Flak Troopers great for anti-air Is dead wrong. It Needs a Radar. does less damage if its elite too. And is fairly fragile.

Tesla Troopers. too expensive 500$ short-ranged. Low HP. Gets shredded easily by a deployed GI which is 200$ If at elite it outranges pillbox sentry gun battle bunker then they would be worth it.

Crazy Ivans too low HP again. Gets easily beaten by anti-infantry fire. And is SLOW as HELL! Too. Not worth its 600$ price either.

Robot Tanks. arent that amazing. Sure they are dirt cheap. But they cant even beat rhinos. 1 on 1 And it always needs its Robot Control Center Online. too. Only useful vs Yuri.

Tank Destroyers. are garbage! At their anti-tank role. It cant 1 shot terror drones. And they barely survive vs rhino heavy tanks. Ofcourse it beats rhino 1 on 1 But mass them. Vs uncrushable infantry. To see how good they destroy them lol! A Brute can solo 5 tank destroyers And get running with elite rank. Also Their Turret cant rotate all the way. And they are useless vs infantry and buildings.

Tesla Tanks. all in one?! Youll see. That in soviet matches Nobody chooses. Russia to crank them out. Try it vs rhinos and rhinos would Steamroll Tesla Tanks cheaper and faster. In superior numbers. They cant even outrange basic defenses either And they burn your credits quick too at 1200$ And they cant fire while moving either. Soviets. have other better options than Tesla Tanks aswell.

Terrorists a nightmare?! My Good lord above! You probably dont know How awful they are. At killing stuff. Look at when they face a desolator or If they are bunched up ALL OF THEM EXPLODE! And they have such terrible. HP too. Which is why no one goes for Cuba.

Demo Trucks. Are a joke 1 Harrier always 1 shot kills it And it can barely. Kill stuff. And its globally announced too When build and its 1500$ Just to blow on a Garbage Truck. which is a big waste of money. Even a single MBT which is 700$ grizzly/lasher rhino 900$ Can solo. it and win.

[rocker219]

On 8/21/2020 at 4:43 AM, XGalaxyZ said:

Not sure if your high or not But i completely disagree. with everything you said. heres why

Flak Troopers great for anti-air Is dead wrong. It Needs a Radar. does less damage if its elite too. And is fairly fragile.

Tesla Troopers. too expensive 500$ short-ranged. Low HP. Gets shredded easily by a deployed GI which is 200$ If at elite it outranges pillbox sentry gun battle bunker then they would be worth it.

Crazy Ivans too low HP again. Gets easily beaten by anti-infantry fire. And is SLOW as HELL! Too. Not worth its 600$ price either.

Robot Tanks. arent that amazing. Sure they are dirt cheap. But they cant even beat rhinos. 1 on 1 And it always needs its Robot Control Center Online. too. Only useful vs Yuri.

Tank Destroyers. are garbage! At their anti-tank role. It cant 1 shot terror drones. And they barely survive vs rhino heavy tanks. Ofcourse it beats rhino 1 on 1 But mass them. Vs uncrushable infantry. To see how good they destroy them lol! A Brute can solo 5 tank destroyers And get running with elite rank. Also Their Turret cant rotate all the way. And they are useless vs infantry and buildings.

Tesla Tanks. all in one?! Youll see. That in soviet matches Nobody chooses. Russia to crank them out. Try it vs rhinos and rhinos would Steamroll Tesla Tanks cheaper and faster. In superior numbers. They cant even outrange basic defenses either And they burn your credits quick too at 1200$ And they cant fire while moving either. Soviets. have other better options than Tesla Tanks aswell.

Terrorists a nightmare?! My Good lord above! You probably dont know How awful they are. At killing stuff. Look at when they face a desolator or If they are bunched up ALL OF THEM EXPLODE! And they have such terrible. HP too. Which is why no one goes for Cuba.

Demo Trucks. Are a joke 1 Harrier always 1 shot kills it And it can barely. Kill stuff. And its globally announced too When build and its 1500$ Just to blow on a Garbage Truck. which is a big waste of money. Even a single MBT which is 700$ grizzly/lasher rhino 900$ Can solo. it and win.

That’s fine you can disagree but when I was super competitive I could find a use for any unit and would find others at a high level use units that I would find remarkable. 
 

I wouldn’t dismiss all these units as garbage. Yes the majority of games Don’t utilize these units but I’ve seen and have used each of these units effectively to make the outcome a win. 

[a1nthony]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:49 AM, ReaperAA said:

I humbly disagree. Tank Destroyers are extremely clunky and they are not really that good at their "Anti-Tank" role either (they can barely beat Rhino Tanks in a head-on battle).

Also once Battle Fortresses are available, they become obsolete. Because pretty much anything TDs can do, GGI Battle Fortresses can do better.

Bryan Vahey highlighted the problem with TDs in this video

 

That’s fair, I don’t think they are anything special. There were some pretty oddball build orders/rushes that took advantage of how fast tank destroyers are built In Yuris revenge, like going 2-3 miners then quickly getting td’s for Defense to supplement.. or when using in rushes, Seal Ifvs To kill  infantry/drones  and blow up buildings. 
 

edit: I didn’t watch the video

Edited August 23, 2020 by a1nthony