Blade Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Don't worry, I have issues with that site's list as well, virtually all of those games should be under inspired by IMO Its the difference between an official translation of a text to a new language and a fan fic written the new language by someone who knows enough to get the gist of the original but not the nuance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cn2mc Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ya'll read well what Blade here wrote. He's saving a lot of people a lot of time and explanations on the subject. For me, I tried OpenRA and didn't like it at all, it doesn't even begin to approach the feel and fluidity the originals had, let alone manage to imitate the finer details like movement, inaccuracy, the correlation between the two, etc. It's a completely different game that chose a completely different path but happens to use the same graphics. With all this said, I still have no real problem with it calling itself OpenRA. But I do have a problem when OpenRA proselytes use every possible (and often impossible) opportunity, and the C&C/RA name, to board the very succesful CnCNet ship and use it as an advertising vessel for their own project. As CnCNet is a service devoted primarily to maintaining and preserving legacy WW games, the kind of conservative backlash OpenRA folks are getting is only to be expected here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Really CN2MC? If you'd just finished your best effort at making an RA clone and wanted to share this with the world, You are you telling me you wouldn't advertise it on a busy RA forum? Of course you would... This is exactly where it should be advertised. I suppose by your logic, he should go advertise it on a call of duty forum? Or a marginally more liberal RA forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The moderators actually issued a warning on me for doing that so I stopped posting OpenRA release news or hints how to solve RA95 modding problems with the OpenRA engine. This community is and always has been very hostile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoeller Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Im sure cncnet doesn't care they advertise here, because they know they wont lose any users after they dl and play openra.. You cant fix something that isn't broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cn2mc Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Really CN2MC? If you'd just finished your best effort at making an RA clone and wanted to share this with the world, You are you telling me you wouldn't advertise it on a busy RA forum? Of course you would... This is exactly where it should be advertised. I suppose by your logic, he should go advertise it on a call of duty forum? Or a marginally more liberal RA forum? First thing's first, and this is somehting you apparently fail to understand and accept, even though it has actually been proven: OpenRA is definately not an 'effort at making a RA clone', let alone a good one a that. As people already said times upon times, they (including myself) dislike it being branded as such. And to add insult to injury, OpenRA has been shoved in our faces for years. It's not like we don't know it exists, you know. OpenRA is already quite well covered. Exceedingly well, infact. Even a simple Google search of just these very forums yields 240 results (probably around 250 now), so stop acting like noone knows about it. We all do. So, speaking of advertisment, which you seem to know a lot about, if OpenRA is reaching the right audience, but the ads aren't really working, then there's something wrong with the product. Is it that hard to grasp? I, personally, don't like the very idea of OpenRA, of something, which takes literally historically important games and toys with their concepts and gamepley as if they were somehow obsolete... But on the other hand it still makes use of the name and brands itself a 'recreation' that has 'the classic gameplay of the original'. I've spent summers on the countryside as a little kid, but this is the biggest pile of bullshit I've seen in my life. You, my friend, cannot speak of 'logic' to me, you know nothing about it. EDIT: Matt, hostility certainly has nothing to do with those warnings. People can't just go around derailing random topics to advertise, and advertise something irrelevant to the topic. One second you're discussing rules.ini and, on the next, someone comes in and blurts out 'that's why we did OpenRA in .yaml, lol'. Sites and projects in communities work by linking to eachoter on the mainpage in a civil manner, and that's that. If any of the users prefer to frequent one site, or another, or both, and play one game, or the other, or both, they do. But we don't send around missionaries to explain to the unchristened how our game is better than your game and you should play it 'cause it's better. Got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes Mr Spock, you are clearly at the apex of logic so I apologise for pointing out the glaring contradictions in your statement, it sounds like it hurt. XD Normally I like a good debate, but I can see I'm clearly arguing with a sewing circle of chin stroking fan boys, and I can't be fucked. Matt, regardless of what CN2MC says, the hostility is apparent, and I haven't seen one hijacked thread by OpenRa disciples, so not sure what he's going on about? Secondly, keep up the good work. It's awesome to see my favourite RTS still being kept alive by the various mods, CNCNet and projects like OpenRa. Ps. I'm downloading it tonight, looking forward to trying it out. Love that you support Linux too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoeller Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Wow Djj! You come to this forum as a openRa cheerleader and talk shit on people that are giving there honest opinion about OpenRa? Take all the fagatry comments to their website with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I've never played it, how could I possibly be a cheerleader? I'm simply giving my opinion on you wonderful bunch. When one of you guys write an RTS engine from scratch I'll be just as impressed and will equally defend your time an effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoeller Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 It's awesome to see my favourite RTS still being kept alive by the various mods, CNCNet and projects like OpenRa. Ps. I'm downloading it tonight, looking forward to trying it out. Love that you support Linux too Looks to me like your probably one of the developers trying to sneak advertise that is compatible with linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes it's a conspiracy, how did you know? I've been found out, I'm an OpenRa developer in disguise. Now my cover is blown I better go back to the OpenRa forums, tail between legs. No, I'm a coder and building an RTS from scratch is impressive. Especially as I've now played it briefly and while it doesn't feel exactly the same as the original, it's a damn good attempt and is still fun to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 C&C1 on maps bigger than. 64x64. That's sold it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cn2mc Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Too bad it's not really C&C1, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I just played a skirmish, on a big map against a computer AI. It's what I wanted C&C to be... How can you not like it? It's awesome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimas Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sorry guys, I won't fall into the discussion, I have nothing to add. What do you think about openra(?) I played it sometimes and whenever there is an update I DL it. There are some things I'm disliking, but I'll keep it to myself and tell the developers in another moment, nothing really important, might be an issue in my end. To anyone in doubt of trying, I say you should go ahead and try, it's a respectable project with many supporters. even more important if you're a RTS player, because sometimes we have this fear of the "end is near" for RTS. That being said, with so many capabilities and well deployed so far, for free and over night work (probably), I would advise to start creating a 4th MOD (being 1=dune, 2=C&C and 3=RA), this time a new and original game universe with new units, new features and certainly, not open. Doesn't have to be a primary goal, just something to observe how you feel about it and what else can it brings. Focus more in the SP experience for this MOD and stop other attempts to replicate what already exists. The reason behind this thinking is because I worked (hobby) for 2 years in a Remastering project and whenever we had good ideas to implement, the Buls*** "canonical" argument was there and I saw some skilled people accepting to be bound to the original game limits. Now that you have reputation, start sailing, become a 300 supporter team project. Waiting for the next build ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cn2mc Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Djj, I don't like it, because it just doesn't feel right to me when I play it. You have to realize that I've played C&C for almost 20 years. I've seen flash implementations of TD that play more like the original than the OpenRA mod does. I like the project, hell, I admire it even, but I've already made clear my dislike for this kind of evangelization that's been going on here for far too long. Enough is enough. Swap links on the mainpage, make a subforum here for OpenRA and one there for the originals, and be done with this crap (that's directed at general forces that be). Also, I do not like getting strawmanned, like in some of your earlier comments, but I already let that slide... So, my bottom line is, the feel of the game is fundamentally different than that of the originals. Calling it OpenRA is one thing. Saying it's 'the same but better' is a completely different one, improper. Is that clear enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchote Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You can imitate it to some degree and my suggested rewording of the blurb IMO more accurately reflects that this is what OpenRA does. OpenRA does a good job of imitating the look where it tries to (unit and map graphics) and a reasonable attempt to capture the feel (which is far more subjective), but to say its a recreation is an exageration. Don't worry, I have issues with that site's list as well, virtually all of those games should be under inspired by IMO You have a different (much stricter) definition of 'recreation' than many other people, so we are going to have to agree to disagree on that point. People can't just go around derailing random topics to advertise, and advertise something irrelevant to the topic. One second you're discussing rules.ini and, on the next, someone comes in and blurts out 'that's why we did OpenRA in .yaml, lol'. Sites and projects in communities work by linking to eachoter on the mainpage in a civil manner, and that's that. If any of the users prefer to frequent one site, or another, or both, and play one game, or the other, or both, they do. But we don't send around missionaries to explain to the unchristened how our game is better than your game and you should play it 'cause it's better. Got it? Matt used to be rather over-enthusiastic about commenting here, but stopped after warnings from both the moderators here and by members of our own community. This blew over many months ago and everyone else has got it, so how long do you plan on holding a grudge? There are some things I'm disliking, but I'll keep it to myself and tell the developers in another moment, nothing really important, might be an issue in my end.You should still let us know via our IRC channel, forum, or bug tracker. We don't hold our existing gameplay sacred, so we are quite welcoming of constructive feedback. Even if we don't agree with your comments, we will usually give you an explanation why instead of abusing you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The moderators actually issued a warning on me for doing that so I stopped posting OpenRA release news or hints how to solve RA95 modding problems with the OpenRA engine. This community is and always has been very hostile. If you have been warned then it was for sure for all the off-topic spam you did. E.g. someone asked how to modify a Red Alert Map and you spammed how it is done in OpenRA, totally unrelated stuff and very confusing for the thread starter. I don't think anyone has a problem with you posting news about OpenRA, we even had news about your releases on the front page many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It was always a lot of someone asking how to do something in RA and then the next post is "how we did it in OpenRA"... great you can do it but you're not answering the question or helping in any way. I'm with cn2mc on this one where its cool and all to have an opensource... redevelopment which is similar (not the same) to RA/TD/Whatever, but it gets annoying when we get 100 different plugs on how OpenRA does stuff in useless places. I'm not a particularly big fan of how OpenRA plays either, but it looks good for customisation and mods and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 :mad: Djj, I don't like it, because it just doesn't feel right to me when I play it. You have to realize that I've played C&C for almost 20 years. I've seen flash implementations of TD that play more like the original than the OpenRA mod does. I like the project, hell, I admire it even, but I've already made clear my dislike for this kind of evangelization that's been going on here for far too long. Enough is enough. Swap links on the mainpage, make a subforum here for OpenRA and one there for the originals, and be done with this crap (that's directed at general forces that be). Also, I do not like getting strawmanned, like in some of your earlier comments, but I already let that slide... So, my bottom line is, the feel of the game is fundamentally different than that of the originals. Calling it OpenRA is one thing. Saying it's 'the same but better' is a completely different one, improper. Is that clear enough? Strawmanned? Where exactly did I misrepresent any of your points? I understand that you don't like it, not at any point did I say that you should. I just couldn't understand the hostility towards it... And I still can't, I mean you seem really upset that it's supposedly mis representing what it actually is? which I disagree with you on anyway. I suppose it comes down to who cares if they call it a re creation? It's not exactly a million miles away from that. Also, I've been playing c&c for around 15 years (not far off your 20) and after playing it tonight I can barely feel a difference in gameplay, I mean there are a few things but it could easily be adapted to an almost unidentifiable difference, if that so happens to be your preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Yes, I was overly-enthusiastic when I first heard about OpenRA and thought no one else knows about it. Some forum topics here were about asking how to overcome engine limitations and most replies were about that it is impossible to achieve so I thought giving a hint on how to solve it with as an OpenRA mod would be seen as helpful. It was not really meant as advertisement. After all it is a hobby and an unpaid after work project. It took me some time that this cnc-comm.com forum (there was no CnCNet branding at that time) is really about preserving the originals even seeing the multi-player balancing as something sacred that shall never be changed while ppmsite.com is the place were people want to pass limits. I can live with that, just did not know it at first. We also avoid re-using registered trademarks and original logos like http://redalert1.com/ or http://cncnet.org/download which shows the box arts for legal reasons, so I think it is unfair to say we try to blatantly cash in on the C&C brand. It is actually avoided to not get angry letters from EA's lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cn2mc Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Strawmanned? Where exactly did I misrepresent any of your points? Check your first reply to me, reply #27, and show me where I've said the things you insinuated there. I never said 'don't advertise OpenRA here', I only said backlash is to be expected, especially if the advertising is done in an improper manner, which it has, QED. The perceived hostility, or 'grudge', as pchote incorrectly called it, that OpenRA is getting is infact not at all that hostile. It's simple criticism of this bad practice. And of the other bad practice of dishonest marketing. Everything about these issues has been very well explained, over and over, and again and again, but you guys still write it off as 'hostility', 'a grudge', 'elitism' and what not. You just don't understand, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyerguds Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The moderators actually issued a warning on me for doing that so I stopped posting OpenRA release news or hints how to solve RA95 modding problems with the OpenRA engine. This community is and always has been very hostile. We did that because your answers were completely irrelevant to what was actually asked. They wanted to know how to mod RA, and your reply basically boiled down to "Here's how to mod a completely different game!" To compare... that's equivalent to someone asking about rules-modding RA1, and me going on about which bytes to hack to do similar things in C&C1. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 More like equivalent to "There is already a setting in OpenTTD and someone made a NewGRF so you don't need that workaround." but okay. I got it a long time ago. There is also a challenge to work with the limitations of the classics that adds to the appeal. The best solution may be to just recommend each others projects. I added links to the cncnet.org community at https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/FAQ#this-is-not-true-to-the-original about a year ago and also advertised it on our social media pages. I am really sick of this hostility. The recent incident with Graion Dilach on www.moddb.com/games/openra who crossed a line with his personal attacks and wishing us failure, is making me angry and sad. He seems to be agitated by your aggressive and almost religious hate speech against our hobby project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjammin1337 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Dude the people complaining about how you're "representing" your mod are nothing but keyboard warriors. Anyone with a spec of technical know know how or programming knowledge, would be holding their glasses up to you because you've achieved something awesome. The people who just complain that it's not like the original and that you're "calling it the wrong thing" are really sad people... If they don't like it, don't play it. I can see it from your perspective, you've created OpenRA, it's been your passion and yes you've deviated from the original, but who cares? I just don't get why people get their underwear in such a twist over the fact you're calling it a re-creation? If anything you've created an RTS engine from scratch, without back engineering any of the original binaries... IMO that's more impressive that just building on the old engine... So many sad fanboys, who just don't understand what goes into creating an RTS from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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