jeffbeck Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Unfortunately, the XWIS 'you owned me cos you cheat' numpty brigade have brought their shitpot paranoia to the server. I've been banned from every mod game because I apparently 'cheat'. They don't seem to believe this is a cheat free server because ' it's what they want you to believe'. So, do cheats work on this server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mechacaseal Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Besides mod maps I haven't seen any cheating going on. The old cheats have been blocked from working but that doesnt mean the cheats can't find a way back into the game. I haven't bothered trying to figure out how cncnet modified the games to prevent cheating too lazy and old to care lol. ignore them. when the ladder comes there will be actual "cheating" but right now i dont think anyone is social degenerate enough to bother with cheats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 its just the easiest way to feel good about yourself, if the other guy is cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Yeah other than modding the map files themselves its really hard to do. in RA1 in fact they have a thing pop up if the map has unusual modifications (actually reading them can give you a huge advantage ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Besides mod maps I haven't seen any cheating going on. now I understand, the map cheated me I haven't seen any cheating going on either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyerguds Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I haven't bothered trying to figure out how cncnet modified the games to prevent cheating Basically, the way the developers would; by actually patching the game. Just, without source code it's all disassembling and byte patching. (amg h4x) The fact the cncnet client downloads and executes these patched exes instead of the game's own exes when actually starting a game makes sure people are forced to use these patched exes, making it hard to weasel in stuff of their own to still get around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylegend Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 An above average player usually scans around the map to see what their allies & enemies are doing in order to adapt their strategy so they would most likely have an idea of everything/most things going on, my point here - mainly where units have travelled and scouted. Scouting is the #1 rule without question, which is also a cause of alot of arguments on this game where a certain player has not done their part in scouting their opponent!! Now in my experience, some players dont notice when they have been scouted and accuse people instantly of 'mapping' (using 3rd party programs/tools to reveal all shroud on the map) when they are attacked so either they ask other players in the game if they recall anyone scouting them or request the attacker to screenshot their base showing shroud for proof. Players that understand the mechanics of the game and the tricks to playing usually dont ask because they know how they got scouted and/or attacked but some people dont use their brains to figure this out and realise this and are certain that the player is 'cheating' until proven innocent or not guilty. Then their are players that either just dont understand the basics or they just dont want to hear that they are wrongly accusing players of cheating because they cant accept that a certain player might just be better because they understand how the game works and have a good strategy. I noticed how Red Alert 1 has the no cheat thing and was thinking that TS also needs a mod map checker implemented into the client so players that dont understand that mod map files can also be edited to change buildings & unit properties (cost, strength, speed etc) are able to see if the mod map has had any changes made before playing. This would be helpful in the case of playing a ladder match so the host wouldnt have an unfair advantage over the other player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFrodo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Sky you know how to make maps, ye? And how to add triggers that wudn''t normally be known to other users like 'sell silo and get 50k credits'? Because Funky was looking for someone to help him out with this stuff as he was/is working on 'mod map checker' etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyerguds Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Problem is that even things like train scripts would already show up on such a checker... scripting and customized civilian stuff seems pretty common in TS maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylegend Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Sky you know how to make maps, ye? And how to add triggers that wudn''t normally be known to other users like 'sell silo and get 50k credits'? Because Funky was looking for someone to help him out with this stuff as he was/is working on 'mod map checker' etc yes i could help with what i know as far as editing/modding goes... Problem is that even things like train scripts would already show up on such a checker... scripting and customized civilian stuff seems pretty common in TS maps are you referring to westwood maps or mod maps or both? Mainly the editing of costs & other properties of units or user created 'trainable & buildable' units & buildings would be good to identify in such a checker. In the case of a westwood map that has a script for a moving train such as Tunnel Training or Casey's Canyon, regular players would know this and accept that the 'checker' would just be pointing out that the map contains a script to run the 'locomotive'. You would really just want to be able to identify if the original script was modified in some way compared to the original version of the map... if you catch my drift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylegend Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I also forgot to mention, a big advantage with the cncnet client is being able to install the add on that allows you to double click the map preview so you can view a larger, more detailed version as an image providing the map actually has one in the case of a user created map because back on original WOL, most user created maps would require you to save the map with no preview and other things such as compressing and removing stuff from the map file in order for it to be small enough to transfer to other players within the limited time frame. This is also another advantage being able to send larger map files on cncnet to other players without having to do all this stuff in order just to play users created maps. It also allows for more feature rich maps and possibilty to have better versions of westwood maps with previews and being able to view a much more detailed version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You can right click a map preview to view the content and check for mods/cheats. Thats how it was in red alert 1 too until i added the automatic mod/cheat check. I want to add that to TS too, but I never made a TS map so i don't know what possible mods a TS map can contain. I will make a test version today so you guys can try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mechacaseal Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You can right click a map preview to view the content and check for mods/cheats. Thats how it was in red alert 1 too until i added the automatic mod/cheat check. I want to add that to TS too, but I never made a TS map so i don't know what possible mods a TS map can contain. I will make a test version today so you guys can try it out People who make cheat maps usually use sunedit2k. typical cheats are changing what is needed to be built in order to build a unit like building both gates a and b to build a secret 1 dollar cyborg commando. or changing house settings for a specific faction so everything is slightly stronger and builds faster and does more damage than it should. looks very similar to these stats. seems like some official maps like tunnel training modify the rules too with these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yes, I will flag every modified unit stat as a possible cheat like in red alert. But there are other sections in the rules.ini where I need help from you guys like the [General] section in rules.ini There are keys like this: BuildSpeed=.8 ; general build speed [time (in minutes) to produce a 1000 credit cost item] This is not a cheat if it was modified since it applies for all players/factions I need a list with all keys that could give a single player/faction an advantage From a quick look through the [General] section I already found this: ; hover vehicle characteristics HoverAcceleration=.02 ; time to accelerate to full speed This could be used to cheat since I don't know if both sides have hover units or only one side got them rules.ini: http://funkyfr3sh.cncnet.org/files/ts/rules.ini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Do those even work? And what are the default values so i can check if it was changed ? [specialFlags] TiberiumGrows=yes TiberiumSpreads=yes TiberiumExplosive=yes DestroyableBridges=yes MCVDeploy=no InitialVeteran=no FixedAlliance=no HarvesterImmune=no FogOfWar=no Inert=no IonStorms=no Meteorites=no Visceroids=no [basic] IgnoreGlobalAITriggers=no TruckCrate=no TrainCrate=no Percent=91 TiberiumGrowthEnabled=yes VeinGrowthEnabled=no IceGrowthEnabled=yes TiberiumDeathToVisceroid=yes FreeRadar=no InitTime=10000 [Lighting] Ambient=0.800000 Red=1.000000 Green=1.000000 Blue=1.000000 Ground=0.000000 Level=0.000000 IonAmbient=0.790000 IonRed=1.250000 IonGreen=1.250000 IonBlue=1.000000 IonGround=0.000000 IonLevel=0.000000 I think its gonna be tough, there are too much unknown things and it might be impossible for me to make a proper cheat check since I don't know anything about TS maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mechacaseal Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Do those even work? And what are the default values so i can check if it was changed ? [specialFlags] TiberiumGrows=yes TiberiumSpreads=yes TiberiumExplosive=yes DestroyableBridges=yes MCVDeploy=no InitialVeteran=no FixedAlliance=no HarvesterImmune=no FogOfWar=no Inert=no IonStorms=no Meteorites=no Visceroids=no [basic] IgnoreGlobalAITriggers=no TruckCrate=no TrainCrate=no Percent=91 TiberiumGrowthEnabled=yes VeinGrowthEnabled=no IceGrowthEnabled=yes TiberiumDeathToVisceroid=yes FreeRadar=no InitTime=10000 [Lighting] Ambient=0.800000 Red=1.000000 Green=1.000000 Blue=1.000000 Ground=0.000000 Level=0.000000 IonAmbient=0.790000 IonRed=1.250000 IonGreen=1.250000 IonBlue=1.000000 IonGround=0.000000 IonLevel=0.000000 I think its gonna be tough, there are too much unknown things and it might be impossible for me to make a proper cheat check since I don't know anything about TS maps I know the stuff in yellow works if you change it. I also know in a lot of maps I used to make I'd stop Tiberium from spreading so it wouldn't go outside boundaries ie go on the other side of train tracks etc. im pretty sure some of that stuff doesnt work especially the stuff like fog of war that you set before the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Alright, I guess the Lighting stuff is safe and cannot be used to give one player an advantage? Here are the results of my first test run on the tunnel train-ing map: (All the unknown stuff needs to be fixed, i don't have the default values) The Strength value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 6000 to 600 The Sight value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 0 to 4 The Power value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 0 to -40 The Crewed value of INGRNLMP has been changed from no to yes The LightVisibility value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 4000 to 1500 The LightGreenTint value of INGRNLMP has been changed from 1.5 to 0.7 The Strength value of LOCOMOTIVE has been changed from 100 to 1000 The Speed value of LOCOMOTIVE has been changed from 8 to 11 The Armor value of LOCOMOTIVE has been changed from light to concrete The Strength value of TRAINCAR has been changed from 100 to 900 The Armor value of TRAINCAR has been changed from light to concrete The Speed value of TRAINCAR has been changed from 8 to 11 The Strength value of CARGOCAR has been changed from 100 to 900 The Armor value of CARGOCAR has been changed from light to concrete The Speed value of CARGOCAR has been changed from 8 to 11 The TiberiumGrows value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes The TiberiumSpreads value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes The TiberiumExplosive value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes The DestroyableBridges value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to yes The MCVDeploy value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The InitialVeteran value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The FixedAlliance value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The HarvesterImmune value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The FogOfWar value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The Inert value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The IonStorms value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The Meteorites value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The Visceroids value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no The NextScenario value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to GDI The AltNextScenario value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to GDI9C.MAP The Name value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to Tunnel The NewINIFormat value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 4 The CarryOverCap value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 0 The EndOfGame value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The SkipScore value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The OneTimeOnly value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The SkipMapSelect value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The Official value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes The IgnoreGlobalAITriggers value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The TruckCrate value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The TrainCrate value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The Percent value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 91 The MultiplayerOnly value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 1 The TiberiumGrowthEnabled value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes The VeinGrowthEnabled value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The IceGrowthEnabled value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes The TiberiumDeathToVisceroid value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to yes The FreeRadar value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to no The InitTime value of Basic has been changed from Unknown to 10000 The map contains 10 Units The map contains 10 Infantry The map contains 32 Structures The map contains 24 Tubes The map contains 2 ScriptTypes The Name value of ????????????????1 has been changed from Unknown to ????????????????1 The Name value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to Move The 0 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,31 The 1 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15 The 2 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,32 The 3 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15 The 4 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,33 The 5 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15 The 6 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 3,30 The 7 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 5,15 The 8 value of 0A3E6DF0 has been changed from Unknown to 6,1 The map contains 1 TaskForces The Name value of 0A5A09B0 has been changed from Unknown to Train The 0 value of 0A5A09B0 has been changed from Unknown to 1,LOCOMOTIVE The Group value of 0A5A09B0 has been changed from Unknown to -1 The map contains 1 TeamTypes The Name value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to Train The VeteranLevel value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 1 The Loadable value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Full value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Annoyance value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The GuardSlower value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The House value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to Neutral The Recruiter value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Autocreate value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Prebuild value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Reinforce value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Droppod value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Whiner value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The LooseRecruit value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Aggressive value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Suicide value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to yes The Priority value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 50 The Max value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0 The TechLevel value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0 The Group value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to -1 The OnTransOnly value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The AvoidThreats value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The IonImmune value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The TransportsReturnOnUnload value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The AreTeamMembersRecruitable value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The IsBaseDefense value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The OnlyTargetHouseEnemy value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to no The Waypoint value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to AE The Script value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0A3E6DF0 The TaskForce value of 0A3E5060 has been changed from Unknown to 0A5A09B0 The map contains 1 Triggers The map contains 1 Events The map contains 1 Actions The map contains 1 Tags The map contains 432 AITriggerTypesEnable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mechacaseal Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm slightly confused about how all this works on your end but would it be easier to remove those rules from the map and just make them default rules in the main rules.ini i dont need why the train cars would only have 100 strength etc. The Visceroids value of SpecialFlags has been changed from Unknown to no Stuff like this varies by map tho so no default answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Removing stuff is not good, but I added all Standard/Firestorm maps to the trusted list so these changes to the train cars will never trigger an anti cheat message Here is what I have now: All changes to these sections will never trigger the cheat warning since it looks like those cannot be used to give one player/faction an advantage "lighting", "specialflags", "basic" These sections will be completly ignored and changes to them are not listed at all since all of them are just related to terrain and other normal stuff that every map got: "overlaydatapack", "overlaypack", "terrain", "isomappack5", "waypoints", "map", "previewpack", "preview", "digest", "tubes", "smudge", "aitriggertypesenable" I don't know if these sections can be abused and what they are doing at all: "taskforces", "actions", "tags", "events", "scripttypes" All other sections/keys not listed in here are flagged as possible cheat if modified I created a new map with FS and my map was not flagged, so I guess i can push the update now and later we can tweak it if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think its gonna be tough, there are too much unknown things and it might be impossible for me to make a proper cheat check since I don't know anything about TS maps instead of checking each map, each time could a map be vetted publicly and added to and served out to the client from the server? or built into the client in a safe way? checked by a hash or some other check? being inspected by the entire community then added might be more reliable we would have a 'standard version' of each map to compete on the noted differences could be listed by right clicking like you have the map.ini popup a less technical summary might be adequate and easier for those not familiar with what each entry is for and wouldn't have to be generated on the fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 There will be a list of verified maps, we will need someone to check the maps manually on request and afterwards we add them to the list. The update is online already, you can check the differences by clicking the cheats button in the game room. I tried to make it good readable so it can be understood by non experts too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think I understand now well done! I never kept track of the differences now they are listed excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I guess most of the mod maps are flagged as a possible cheat map atm, at least all that modify stats of units and have triggers Still need to tweak some things, there are might be some things you can mod without giving one player an advantage Once everything is working properly we will just start adding the fair and balanced mod maps to the trusted list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 people are freaking out thinking all the maps are loaded with cheats now :O please no more last dialog box 'are you sure you want to play this map? map contains modifications people react to cheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyFr3sh Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yea, you guys need to click the cheats button and post the results in here so we can figure out what mods are ok and fix it up. Some maps need to be added manually to the list of verified maps anyways, it cannot work fully automatically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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