AchromicWhite

haha, he just needs to post in here 1 more time xD

Not sure why... but the latest patch just resulted in: Can you fix it? Chur -.-

Part of the issue is that, as Manu has said here, he's learning as he makes maps. My experience was the same. I've learned a LOT from the maps I've made, leanrning from my own mistakes. I think this might help a lot: -Having multiple entrances to base areas (while still having a defensible base) -Terrain out on the field to have skirmishes around (not all down to who owns what units and how much, a player can take advantage using terrain and make a comback on the field by using their smarts) -Even if you have a lot of tiberium, don't force people to move units through it. (for infantry reasons). But you CAN use it in some situations if you wanted an interesting area where infantry can't be used, for some reason. (Mapping is less about dos and don'ts and more about creating a particular experience for people). -Putting tiberium (even if a LOT of it) in smaller fields (to stop the harvesters going on such long walks). It also makes areas for people to extend their base out to (things to capture). So someone might not be great with micro, but can do well with good macro. -Making sure each player is the same distance from starting resources and doesn't feel ripped off in any way with what they have to begin with. This one's a no brainer; make it fair! Count the cells ect . It feel good to pump out a few more maps for people to play, but once they're out there, that's it. Take the extra time to make it as perfect as you can, you'll be happy you did. I'm personally happy with all the maps that have the (wht) tag... except maybe rattlesnake. But it's not super terrible. I should maybe look into making some 5p maps, but making them fair is kinda hard... and the games are just about massing units by the end anyway... so it's hard to make interesting features for people to have on them.

Boy this post got filled with off topic stuff xD Oh well, at least there's still a nice little list at the top...

Yeah, I don't think you could run the APC up to the SSM without it getting pwnd... unless they're bad at micro anyway... im which case I'll probs just get them with med/gren/hum. soaking the shots with a faster heavy unit to waste the ammo sounds like a better idea. I may try that one cn2.

Exactly. The game is less about the strait power of units/cost ratio and more about how units match up.

Yeah... In top level games, I can't imagine doing this. And, I think grens are better; extra range, damage and speed (for engaging quickly, as men don't move and fire). I may give minigunners a shot, but the thing is, I use men to "tank" for my tanks. They act as a scattered wall in front of my tanks. If not, the bikes etc will rush in and do serious damage. If I then unload the APCs, the bikes can just leave, and I'm left trying to put them all back in again... lol. I would, however, like to see any replays where you guys use this tactic successfully. I'm somewhat intrigued. The thing about SSM is not "how do you engage the SSM?". It's "How can you get THROUGH the bikes/buggies using infantry+tank to GET TO the SSM, when the SSM will just kill the troops? The infantry which you need to get through the light vehicles efficiently".

I'm so lost right now. I stand by what I said. If you ever wanted real competition you'd need to have a special "ladder" set up, make sure "ladder maps" are used and the right amount of starting cash and units etc.

When I say, "run away" I mean kite away, haha. Move and fire, man. It minimises dmg and gets you where you need to go.

The SSM doesn't matter that it can't deal with tanks. The entire GDI force, other than like 20 mammoths, is totally reliant on infantry to survive. So long as the SSM can pay for itself in trading against troops, it was a good investment for the Nod player. Once the troops are down, the tanks pretty much have to go home or die. If they die, GDI insta-loses, if they get home, GDI can reinforce the tanks, once again, with infantry, and have another crack at moving out.

It's near the top of the list for a reason

Yeah, I certainly don't feel as limited as I do in RA1. For sure, some unit combinations are stronger than others, but everything's pretty viable, and you can really get an edge by making like a couple of a different unit.

Yeah. I think that these are really good points. I think I'd said before that if the recon bike wasn't AA, it would fix quite a few problems. The turrets, for example, would also be able to be dealt with more effectively with Orca. I also agree with Ehy, and had stated before, that I think that all balance changes should be left to mods. I enjoy the game, and often enjoy the challenge of playing as GDI against Nod. But it is surely far more difficult.

Oh right. GDI can actually deal with flame infantry, you just have to have some hummers to snipe them. It's important to really have at LEAST two hummers at all times, and scout ahead so that you don't get caught off guard by a flamer popping out of the shroud. It's when you have to take down a hand of Nod, THEN it's kinda tricky turrets make that situation even stickier.

infantry can dodge SSM shots, btw.

The recon bike does actually have it's own armour type... though, in TD, if I recall correctly, it's the same as the visceroid armour type.

Build the aquatic tankers, they are the best ones.

Yeah, agreed. I don't think ladder is a good idea. I'm so far happy that TD has no ladder and would personally like to see it stay that way... For more reasons than just that, also.

My point is that, pushing people to play a certain way may not result in what you want/think it will. Your ideas are a bit backwards, though: "limits play-time for everybody involved". Nope, same time playing, just few games running. "Many people, few games." far more accurate, though still beyond the point. One of the things I'd like to do would be to cast games for people. Let them and their friends play and have a top player casting the game. There'd be laughs, for sure, but that'd be part of the fun. Talking about how certain things are good ideas and other things, not so much. Letting the players see their mistakes and achievements in a fun way that gets shown off. If people get into the spirit of it, it could get people wanting to play 1v1s. Even at lower levels. Of course, we need a proper spectator mode, first.

Oh, for sure. But is that a huge community issue? Honestly, if you want to do something positive about that situation, make tutorial content for people That's the real way to deal with any issue. And, it's not even that much of an issue. Heck, if people want to mess around with Cap the Flag, I don't care, go have fun. I did actually used to think more along the lines that you are now... then I started playing SCII. It's, sadly, a dying community. One of the biggest things I discovered about what SCII is suffering so much more than SC:BW is that the game is almost all about ladder. Competitive play is something that can be really hard and frustrating. Allowing people to play what is comfortable for them helps to keep the game alive. I think the one thing that might help quite a bit would be to make more massive maps that are more balanced (not so much tib, and maybe a bit more terrain around the place to split up battles). That way, people can properly practice engagements and actually grow some confidence. Create content to help that, rather than blaming the players.

It can be daunting to go up against someone tough, and I used to quite like big games over small 1v1s. The main reason I got lots of 1v1 practice, back in the day, is that there was simply so few players online that I had no other choice. If I wanted to play C&C, and I did, then that's what I had to do. It's better that we have people who simply play the game and enjoy it, rather than play by how we want them too. It's taken me years, literally years, to learn this game, and while it's probably easier now, than it ever was before, to learn the game, there's still a HUGE lack of tutorial information out there. Our issue about the community, well, basically Chem, is not to do with the games at all, but simply the attitude and more importantly, a lack of respect for people.

Read the last part, then. Below where he writes "Community" in red, and the last part just below that. I'd also appreciate you reading my reply on it, too. Just the part on community and below. Thank you.

I pretty much agree with this post. I'll go down the list and reply to each section. Buggies: For sure really really cheap for what you get, especially when you don't just compare them with other vehicles but with infantry... 2 grenadiers costs MORE than 1 buggy. WOW However, this should be less of the issue and more for the fact that GDI doesn't have so many counters to them. Maps, for this case, are also a BIG issue. And I've spoken about this before in regards to the maps I've made. (Especially my 1v1 maps: Iron Valley, Frosted Hostilities, Canyon Pursuit). I will say, there's something about this that I actually LIKE. As GDI, if you can have an area where you can wall up a bit and force engagements on your turns, splash weapons (like grenades and AGT), the Nod player can lose a serious amount of their army, which can be hard to come back from. ----This situation brings in a more important realisation: GDI doesn't have a proper artillery weapon to take advantage of such situations when outside of their base.---- Bikes: On open maps, they're surprisingly amazing, in that, even if your opponent makes pure bikes, as a GDI player, it can still be really hard to deal with, even if you're massing hummer/grens to try and counter it. Just using hit and run tactics on weapons factory/Con yard and harvesters/refineries can be super hard to deal with. Put them together with buggies and it's almost impossible to defeat in the hands of a really competent player. SSM is surely a seriously powerful weapon. Once Nod has their main army up to stop direct engagements with them, they'll pump out some pretty crazy damage. Especially to infantry... and once the grenadiers are down, Nod can just roll over GDI. Once again, though, if GDI had something long ranged (and not top tech for 800), maybe this wouldn't be such an issue? It'd be nice if the orca could be used, as a flyer would be a clear counter to an artillery weapon, but with so many bikes on the field, there's little opportunity for such an engagement. I don't know if GDI having a weapon that would be more of a clear counter to bikes would change Nod composition enough to switch that up; again, would a decent artillery scare off Nod players, somewhat, from massing bikes quite so much, so that there would be more opportunity for Orca? hard to say. Light tanks are for sure pretty weak for what you get, but they do have uses, and are quite important in Nod v Nod situations. Nod has many weapons that pump out serious damage, I think this tank makes a lot of sense in the way that it's currently balanced, but I know what you mean in feeling that it's not worth buying. Once again, though, a HUGE reason Nod doesn't make these things is that GDI doesn't have proper ways to deal with mass light vehicles, making this tank somewhat obsolete. Imagine if there was a weapon that GDI could use to really give the punch to light vehicles... Nod would be forced to make heavier ones while they try to take such a weapon down, in order to give them back the field to the powerful light vehicle combination. Flame troops are for sure super powerful, in that, you just pump a couple out and use them as suicide soldiers. The best counter I've found to this is having some humvees on a hotkey to snipe them before they can do the painful painful damage. The biggest issue here is that they actually seem to have a lot of HP and move at a high speed. 200 for a fast, high HP, High damage infantry is kinda crazy... further more, if the humvees get picked off (which is easy enough to do), then you have to do some seriously intense micro of moving the grens back while clicking on 1 or 2 of your own troops and moving them in to take them out. The nerf I'd like to see here is an HP nerf and maybe 1 less speed (down to minigunner speed). It's hard to say if GDI would then rule the early early game with grens, though. (2 rax before ref, new meta xD). Ob is fine, it's actually super expansive and also needs pretty much it's own adv power to run, making it over 2000 to make... and if you snipe out some power, then it's buggered. It's also weak enough that you can snipe it with grens etc Turret, on the other hand. WOW. 600 for a gun more powerful than a medium tank, repairable... even troops take too long to take it out, so it just shuts you down. Should be 800-1000. That should pretty much fix it. Apaches... WOW. Yeah, they're insane. I will say, though, that they are awesome for 2 reasons that don't get said enough. 1. GDI's LACK of AA. They need to be able to make something strait away, from the weapons factory, which has heavy armor and fires rockets (probably 2 of the AP ones). As it stands, they seem to not really have anything, unless they go overboard on Adv Guard/Rocket men. You're never going to really be able to pump out enough mammoths to do the job. 2. They just keep firing!! :o The Orca actually ALSO pumps out a lot of damage, it basically has the same attack as a stealth tank. The difference is that the Orca does some damage... then it flies home because it's out of ammo. If it had a lot less ammunition, then it'd really not be so bad. The other way to nerf it's damage would be to remove "fires twice". But then it would fire for twice as long... haha Weapons factory: Why is it made of cardboard!? Having the airstrip as heavy and the WF as light is interesting... what's not so interesting is 3 bikes killing your weapons factory, when you've just taken out the other 10 buggies/bikes that were rushing it. Yeah, a bit of HP would be nice, just a bit, haha. Comparing the guard tower to the turret surely makes be realise how damn good turrets are. Would be nice to see some more HP on the guard tower or maybe make it cheaper. It's gun is actually pretty strong, though. I have no issue with ADV guard, except to say that turrets are better, SO much better. Humvees are great, IMO, in that they give you a bit of mobility to hold back attacks. It needs to be noted that they're not really for going into combat with by themselves (which is the temptation, because they so much faster than anything else GDI has). If you use them to patrol your base and intercept attacks, and then just produce grens at any area where you're being pressured, they're great defensively. If you use a small number of them to snipe inc flamer troops from killing your grens in the early-mid game, they're great. The only thing I can say, is that, if a Nod player snipes them... you're then without defence for you infantry, and then the grens die and then the tanks die...... Maybe a little more HP to help them survive. But I still think that the idea of the balance between buggy/hummer is interesting. I don't think the units that are close like these should looked at and compared in a "Hey, that's not fair" way, instead, the units should be viewed in how they match up as a TEAM of units. What is actually used to beat what, rather than how similar units are not similar in price. Rocket Launcher: For sure needs to be changed in tech AND price, and maybe HP, or even armour. An obvious change to it, which would totally take it from being near useless to quite scarey for Nod to take on, would be to give it heavy amour. It'd make buggies almost useless against, it, bikes weapon effective, BUT range/armour not effective, it'd shut down inc flamer troops and help give grens protecting it a shield so that bikes can't snipe it. The counter to grens + MRLS would be LIGHT TANKS!!!! However, even just an HP/cost buff ect would help a lot. I spoke about orca before, but again, their main use is in GDI v GDI where they are AMAZING, (GDI, once again, low AA units). But the biggest issue is simply high bike count. Give GDI a proper bike counter/better way to deal with light vehicles, and the meta may change enough to see some use out of them. BALANCE IN GENERAL!!! Personally, while I'm well aware of balance issues, I don't want to change anything in the main download of the original game. I think that all balance tweaks/changes should be mods. Even the change in the cargo plane, although I do agree with the change as a fix to balance issues, is once that makes me bite my lip a little. I pose these questions: -At what point are we satisfied? -At what point is it no longer TD and in fact some sort of mod/Frankenstein? Technically speaking, with the changes made to resolution, hotkeys, the cargo plane, extra cncnet features (separate heli, redeploy MCV), infinite money, even custom maps, we are already not playing TD... technically. Well, that's if you think of it from the perspective that the game designers never released this stuff Community: I agree that the community is, mostly, great We have people of all skill levels, playing and enjoying the game. Our player base seems to be slowly growing and our content creators enjoy releasing things for the game for people to enjoy and also to enhance the whole game for people. From our CnCnet team to our mappers and we even have an amazing TD mod up and coming from Kilk. There is no no.1 player, that's absolutely true. There never was. I love seeing people's strengths and weaknesses. It's such a range of skills that the game requires for a player to be good, that seeing each person's skills/weaknesses is a real pleasure and a puzzle and effort to learn to exploit in order to win. It's enjoyable both as competition and admiration of those playing. For sure, we have people of all sorts of skill levels and it's often clear when someone is completely outside someone else's skill, but anyone who watches E-sports will know that while players are sometimes seen as above others, it certainly doesn't mean that they'll win every game, and someone who comes quite low in a tournament may come through to win another. We don't have a ladder, and even if we did, that isn't even the true purpose IN a ladder. Chem: I was wondering when this was going to be strait up addressed. I know that personally I'm really quite tolerant of people, as I look at people with understanding eyes that there maybe issues that someone has/has gone through which has led to them being who they are today. For all I know, this person may have some serious mental disorder, been abused in some way or is even STILL being abused in their life. They may be stressed or damaged. However... Tolerance does NOT mean; everyone gets to be a part, no matter what. Tolerance means; everyone gets a chance to be a part, no matter what. Even if it's true that this person's behaviour is caused by some issue, that doesn't mean that other people should be forced to deal with it, while they're just trying to enjoy the community or play games. If ANY person is destructive and cannot control themselves, even after obvious signs that their behaviour is unacceptable; via bans/locking of multiple threads for offensive reasons, then they may not be fit to be a part of the community. This is not about attacking individuals over their behaviour, nor is it about picking and choosing our players, this is about creating an environment for people to come and enjoy the community and the games. My suggestion for dealing with the appropriately would be to create a full code of conduct, which I'd be happy to help write (I'm a part of the youth Scouting organisation, which deals with such situations regularly. We can even base it off of official clauses in Scouting documents, if you'd like). That way, it would be clear what you need to be to be a part of the community, it'd be clear how much leniency there is (how many times you would be banned etc how many "strikes" until you're out). And there would be no arguments over who does or does not get to stay. -Liam

Chem, stop flooding the forums with your ego.

I figure the crates are just for a crazy fun game where the winner doesn't really matter. If you're playing competitively then they really have to be off.