LeOwNzAll

As Yuri player, I veto "Proving Grounds" because I don't know the map and I dont want to lol. As Andy said, the large map and the map with oils are hard (especially sahara and GSF); but it's part of the game. Winning on these maps means you clearly outplay your opponent. I still believe it's doable, I could compete on XWIS on GSF. Or the players are better now, or I'm less good. I think about the second way. Thus, I don't think it needs to change things from yuri's player point of view.

Yes I agree. To start, as hotkey, you need Q, W to don't lose too much time. And D / T / P for your units. The most important thing, I think, is to have a good economy My best advice is : 1st make atleast 4 miners, then make your base & army. After TC, tactics, speed, etc. it will come by playing the game. PS : My advise is for Yuri's Revenge (not for Ra2)

Could be fun, i'll try to be there!

Yuri's army is slow also. Split your forces or move them quicker

I can be interested if Yuri is allowed ?

True ! I wrote shit ? and i like also the idea of Andy to play on one Nick. But how can you « control » this ?

:-)

It was already the case in Ra2, they could change it when they made Yuri. The mentality of players was totally different, the bail was very unique, and ppl knows 3 mns rules, so don't engi eat. Then you could send engi after these 3 mns. No lamers, players had to play good to be good, and not hoping win with an engi. It was one of the reason why the level was alot better. I can tell you they don't fucked up, it's the "No 3 mns rules" who fucked up it =p (was same problem on XWIS, some players sucked, but won some games because they engi'ed every game, or tried)

Sorry to talk about something else, but here are you meaning than APM bigger --> Harder to play / Better player ? To talk about complaining engi eat and all stuff. I don't like it, but - i think - the less worst is to let as it's now. If we display the name (to know lamers), there will be bail/push. If we add multi-engi, we change the game, an engi at 10mns game it's smarter and well played (for me, similar as seal/ivan/tanya), so i don't like this idea to delete it. If we add no engi eat, lot of games, some players will engi walk through the map to catch mvc or another building. For Yuri players it changes nothing as there is no dog lol; but i guess for SvS/SvA/AvA could be horrible :( If we do as WOL QM did, 3 mns rules, at this time that was great, ppl was respectful and there was no engi eat, or rush ifv/engi before 3mns, else you just leave, but today there will be too many bails (maps/factions) or push. Now, we have to assume these players who lames, and maybe some luck/bad luck with dogs, but no bail/push, and we keep the possibility to engi in long game. IF it's possible, the best way would to make engineer "invicible" for 2 mns but he can't steal building (just tech building). Then after these 2 mns passed, engi will be normal.

@RaVaGe Unfortunately as you tell wrong things (rush initiates, 10-12k cash, sending miners everywhere, ...) it's not constructive. Some points are good to see, as ctrl+shift of mag, maybe the power plant, chaos drone (maybe?), virus (maybe?). It's better to admit "Ok this it's not useful; ok this i'll check, maybe i'm wrong?" If you really believe what you wrote i think it means your skill as yuri are low. And not revelant of how yuri has to be played, so impossible to balance it.

1st Ravage i want to say you good job, it's not easy to perform all these things. I write in the quote what i think for most of changements. From my it can be a good thing for "customs games"; but for quickmatch; it's not a good thing. Some players can already beat Yuri as Allied or Sov. So if you downgrade Yuri (it's the case), it will be even easier for them. When designer make a "balance patch", they affect all factions (cf. WC3; CnC3; SC2 etc.). In your case you should also change allied and sov. But it will also affect the match allied vs sov; so even harder to perform a good patch. So let's talk all your things. The way it's done, if ppl want to play it seriously, it will be more multiwar; lashers + brute. No tactic, no intelligence. For sure it will be easier for players who prefer just spam (multiwar rhino/grizzly). And some points show also that - i think - you don't play good as Yuri so you don't know exactly his advantages/weakness.

I come a bit late on this thread but want to tell also things true/not true (with my very old knowledge about this game lol!). For me Tomi was the only one could be compete for both rank 1 in Ra2 and Yuri at XWIS time. I never met any others players able to do this, in WOL / XWIS. I was ok on Ra2 but can't compete as top. I played lot of Top RA2 players, and they could not get TOP 20 on Yuri, and at XWIS time, top 20 on Yuri was the top-top. For this Tomi is the best. I was not a pro on Ra2, but making 1499 points was crazy. And people here does not know, or did not remember, but there was a matching filter (aka MF). 1st you could not do more than BO5 - and later was Bo7 i think - in one day. And you could not play vs someone with +/- 200 points than you. And on Ra2 there was the Super Badge 5 stars at 1501 points. It was his target. But cause of this MF he could not perform it. Every month is was running over ALL players. Rank 2 was a freewin for him. 3-0; everyday; every maps. And i'm not a Tomi's fan (it's even the opposite lol!). Maybe after 2007+ there was players who were competitive in both games, this i don't know. On Yuri's, it was different ! I was there =P That is not true. Since WOL started people get 1001+ points; at WOL time, maybe TOP 25 was 1001 points every month. There was some pushing; that's true. But WOL reseted players pushing or washing game (atleast a good part of cheaters). Same on XWIS; i did several times top 10, and only 1 time rank 1 (ppl bailed me ahah); i can tell about 2005-2006 and like 3-4 players every month people get 1001+ points. -------- I disagree with a good part (maybe all lol?) of you about how competitive was the game. There is something true about ANY sports. More it's popular; more there are players; more there are noobs and more there are top players also. And all these top players compete and get more skilled, again and again. If there are few players; it needs longer time to get more skilled. It's a fact. It's easier to be a top in "bobsleigh" and compete for Olympic Games (remember Jamaïca) than trying to be a top at NBA player; Soccer Player etc. It's same for RTS game. I was top in CnC3 and Ra3; but i could not compete in SC or WC3. Too many players; too many skilled players; i would need ton and ton of hours playing. Less players in CnC3/Ra2, some hours a week was enough to be on top. And i was not as good as i was in Yuri because there were less players. What i mean it's at WOL time i can tell you the game was the most competitive, there was 100.000+ players online (atleast nickname), at a time where not all people had internet (2000-2002). Can you imagine believe it? It's not a hard game; I dont know one thing that i discovered now or in 2005-2006 when i went back that i did not know in 2001. Maybe you can tell me? All BO came from this time; i still doing same BO's, fast IC it's the same; fast tech for allied the same; multi wf; micro prism/bf; using fodder infantry/sentry; controlling miners etc. is not it? For me, WOL, with no contest was the most competitive time. I saw someone quoting "Adam as top Allied players"; he was on XWIS 2006+, but i can tell you like 4-5 nicks, only french, was better than him at WOL time. And i'm not kidding - If it's the adam that i met in 2005/6 -.

for fun because I got bored of the game , but the people you have respect for and think are good players were all map hacking and fogging etc, they just hid it The irony of it all is that Leo and his french m8s Oliver etc were all map hackers who all got caught and then Leo disappeared. Anyway you are right now, apparently we can't cheat in the game, but push is still there as you showed us. You seem pretty arrogant for a very old game where there is no one good now. Show us that you can be the best without push. I hope someone will shut your mouth :)

True. Let's show us your fabulous rush which 29 in rows, but does not work when you are "drunk". So let's do it when you are not drunk. I'm interested to see it ! I don't know if it's the old andy from xwis, but if it's him, he cheated/president ifv/pushed/dc'ed/washed/maphacked and all the stuff you can't even imagine !

Very sad for Zig and all his family. he is come from 88 as me. Was almost at 30. Can't believe it. We shared lot of games, i know since he started played Yuri, and we shared lot of games; especially in 2v2 Clan match. He played for Om3rta if i remember good ! So Atleast since 2005, can't remember if he played before, especially when the forum strike-team.net popped up; so before XWIS Forum. And he won the ClanMatch ladder. From the sky he could be proud about this. In the old time, the competition was very very hard! And to win this means a very good players; very good teamplayers... I was looking for some old good post in XWIS forum; can't find it. I don't know if he had others nicks; Maybe @Chandler you knew his old nick ? the most older post in XWIS forum are from 2003. Every time i went back on yuri, for some months, maybe every 3/4 years, the first that i recognized, with still good skill was him. And it's very sad to know that he left us. He was one of the rare with the "memory of Yuri". We thought same things about Yuri's Revenge, especially when some question was asked there "Which map ? Yuri on or Off ? Sw on or off ?"; some people were complaining/did not understand why he was thinking like this, he thought right because he knew the meta game better than no-one here. He remembered me as a fair player; i can tell that i remember him as the best regular good player of the game and the fairest player. No bail. No whine. Just playing; playing that's all. Time passed: but in 2005; or just some month ago, he was still playing for Top10 / 20. Jason, if from the sky you still follow us here; i wish you the best in the other life ! And when i'll join you there, we will meet in front to share a drink, and i'll challenge you ! My Yuri; your Sov :) RIP man.

Since XWIS and WOL it was always like this, sov went for fast IC because it was the best (the only) option. Once allied tech and get BF and good TC it’s Unplayable. if sov can fast tech you can also do. And make a fast BF. What you have to try to do is exchange 1 BF against 1 IC. While he is hunting and killing your BF you keep your mirage/griz in live by going back home, and you have to remake a new BF. Like this when Ic is over a new BF is already ready. And go back to pressure him. Miners or some rhino with the very large attack of BF. And making this way again and again. You don’t even need to make chrono. If you have it it’s a bonus ! dont play as Ra2 making 2 wars or w/e before making lab. On regular map (without gem) you can Tech on 4 miners as allied. And with oils + gem, only 2. Im not a pro allied, but I can remember the old good BO of best allied players (Bapor, dean, six etc.) which I used also to compete as allied vs others top. It worked!

I think it worked like that in WOL/XWIS ladder, always in diagonal ! And different spots. If it works, we could choose our color so? I like blue !! And don’t like red/yellow, that’s I lose some games

I agree with Zigzag, more the map is big; harder it is for Yuri player. One of the weakness of Yuri's Faction is the speed. They are very slow. As you need Mag/MM/disc to protect your army, you have to wait for them; Use the speed of your unit as advantage (rhino / mirage). That's why i think some other maps could be added : TOE; all HECK scenario (T v T can be hard; but the other seems ok to me); GSValley is not GSF right ? because GSF is OK vs Yuri. Some maps could be used also; why no : Hammer and Sickle ? South Pacific : any map with oils are bad for Yuri. Once you pass the boomer rush it can be interesting. Not easy but it can be challenging. Maybe to test some FFG on it and see. Lake Blitzen : bottom vs top Right i think it's OK. Yuri needs alot time to reach to your base; you have 2 ways to attack/split. You can control oils. And the bridge avoid the boomer rush. it was a WOL map and i never saw ppl complaining about it. Why BF is OFF ???? And DP yes ? Cause of the little cliff and mag ? I played lot of times in this map as allied/sov it's completly playable. What i see is that the Yuri can annoy the second patch; but for yuri it's hard to mine the second patch; miners has to deploy bottom of the cliff; the slave takes 1 hour to mine and go back. you are screwed the time to open the patch. It's the time for Sov to get IC ready: or Allied to get BF and push out of the second patch the Yuri's army. For sure you will be under pressure to resist as on DP. All depends about your skill.

Sounds AWESOME ?

Hey Prep ! I think this the best argument. If it's not; it is one. I'm open for a better argument! I think - maybe i'm wrong - saying someone taking rank 1st easily without playing hard; or top 10 is 10 yuri; we may think that changing something. I played since 2002 to 2007 then just now; i never see it happened. At the most competitive time (2002) the ratio top 10 was like : 4 Sov / 4 Yuri / 2 Allied. In XWIS was like 6-7 Sov / 2-3 Yuri / 1 Allied. Maybe today players are better playing with Yuri than before but i doubt it lol. Sunny is a Yuri player. It means he played alot MORE with yuri than any other factions in QM. I don't know who is kickyou73 or Reano1; but seeing their nick; lose to them is a shame lol (it's not nice; but their nick seems very noob...). If one of Sov/Allied player changes into yuri; They may have worst ratio than playing as Allied/Sov. Can i say Sov/Allied turns player into average to good players? No. I played with showtime and he admitted himself that he does not know what to do; he was pumping WF and rhino; and just get minded by MM. I could be the worst Yuri players; spending my time playing TOE with crates; i would won anyway... No offense to showtime, he can't know what to do if he never played against. You have to use rhino / flak / drone / deso / chopper; hit and run; micro your units etc. I admit that i think it requires more skill than playing SvS (pumping wf/rhino).

There is also a problem in maps with lot of cliff; it will be very hard to stop any allied controlling the cliff. Mirages > MM. BF / IFV GGi > Discs. As sov you can pass by pushing with deso; using conscripts/dogs as fodder; and rhino are more resistants. I think if there is one Yuri beating everyone without playing hard we may think about changing something; but actually there is no.

that's what i thought, not playable for a yuri player to attack any allied on cliff. And can't catch chopper.

I agree people can’t agree for one thing. for example, it means mag could not attack if he is under the hill? I think that’s a bad idea in certain map. Hidden valley or dust bowl to catch chopper would be very hard. Choppers can deal vs discs... and certainly others map that I’m not thinking about. Attacking a base up on the hill would be very hard, especially vs allied, snow valley for example also.

Anyway what the point of this mod ? Make a mod with the unit that you want, a Super-Kirov; a fast V3; add president for IFV in regular game bla-bla-bla. For specific rules there are specific games. Host a game FFG with your own mod; as lot of players do for TOE or unlimited money map... For ranked games, rules are same for everyone, it's the main game. Play it, learn it and that's all. If you lose it's your own fault or your opponent played better. Don't try to find any excuse. I see all people trying to make libya or germany interesting, and some are trying to make comparison with others games as SC or WC. In Yuri there are only 3 main factions : Allied / Sov / Yuri. In Sc2 also 3. in WC3 ; 4 factions. The others country are there to add some "funs" but for ranked games it does not matter about the fun so for sure only 3 nations will be taken. Even if you buff TD or Tesla Tank; maybe these nations will be finally better in major cases so people will always choose Germany for Allied, and Russia for Sov.