Big problem with CNCNET's RA2 / YR ore grow algorithm.

[CCCP84]

16 minutes ago, cypher said:

I already posted it - it doesn't spread more than 3 tiles away from tibs, at least in skirmish mode.

It spreads to 3 cells very rarely. In 95% of cases, it spreads no further than 1 cell.

[Firecom3]

On 4/7/2020 at 1:11 AM, a1nthony said:

I can tell you on Xwis, I would always have my miners mine around the ore regenerator so you could have more money in long game, and you could physically see the ore regenerating throughout gameplay. It was slow, but Not epically slow.

Tony?:) ❤️ 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Firecom3

[a1nthony]

On 4/21/2020 at 11:26 AM, Firecom3 said:

Tony?:) ❤️ 

Hiiiiiiii  

[CCCP84]

Do the guys have any desire to tackle that problem? It still needs a solution.

[bbglas007]

On 4/8/2020 at 12:41 PM, Sam-I-am said:

Why does it even matter? as long as the same thing applies to all players... 

I mean, it's not like you're getting less gold than the others, so why is it a problem that the process has become slower? (assuming that that's the case) players are gonna have to fight with less units, and so what?!

You want more money to make a massive army but you don't like crates because of the luck factor? well then increase credits! problem solved.

It actually doesn't matter for any of the reasons you think

It matters for mappers who are trying to design maps with games that are set at a certain pace

-If you make a map where each player gets 2 ore drills with a mid size patch and the ore regen works, it's dictates a fast pace.

-If you make a map where each player gets 2 ore drills with a mid size patch and the ore regen DOESNT work, it's dictates a SLOW pace.

SLOW games= bored players, broke players

Strategic value has been compromised and people will not pay your map

 

So let's say youre a mapper and you know about this problem so you give everyone 3x more ore drills to COMPENSATE

Then what happens when they FIX the problem?

Your map has now become rekool 

Maybe you don't want to make rekool maps?

 

We can thank mcpwny for making those gifs. If I have any free time I will try to test myself and make a video as this thread is very hard to read and is full of accusations and insightful posts with not much in the way of evidence. We need proof

I will see if I can record some time lapse video

 

[McPwny]

there is an option to enable the oldschool tib(ore) growth logic of tiberian sun where tib grew according to some global entries in rules.ini and there is also the growth logic attached to the tibtypes themselves. the global growth logic still works and is toggleable in map settings in ra2 but is entirely unused outside of unofficial maps, but the local tib growth logic attached to the tib itself, which was the way that ore actually grew very slowly in ra2, seems to be non-working now. i just want to be clear about which form of ore regen seems to be broken.

just now i started the client and let the game run on max speed for a good 5 minutes on a map with a dozen ore drills and saw no ore spreading at all, so i assume its still broken. though ive got a modded client and maby someone else should test it too.

on a side note, the most savage match ive ever played was on the map "near ore far" with 1 mine per player. the war of attrition lasted for a good 3 hours but it was a fun and interesting game in its own way

[CCCP84]

It is important to understand that this problem is not related to the speed of ore mining, but is related to the stopping of mining when the nearest 8 tiles are full.
So if the miner does not mine near one of the drills for some time, this is a direct loss of money.
Obviously it doesn't have to be that way.

I checked version 1.006 (not CNCNET). There, the problem also exists.
But I remember very well that sometimes we played Tsunami, and ore accumulated, spread and the layer increased, and the island without a player eventually became a desired prey with large deposits of ore. This is how it should be.
It was so many years ago. Perhaps we were still playing through Hamachi at that time.

Edited May 13, 2021 by CCCP84

[CCCP84]

5 hours ago, McPwny said:

there is an option to enable the oldschool tib(ore) growth logic of tiberian sun where tib grew according to some global entries in rules.ini and there is also the growth logic attached to the tibtypes themselves. the global growth logic still works and is toggleable in map settings in ra2 but is entirely unused outside of unofficial maps, but the local tib growth logic attached to the tib itself, which was the way that ore actually grew very slowly in ra2, seems to be non-working now. i just want to be clear about which form of ore regen seems to be broken.

just now i started the client and let the game run on max speed for a good 5 minutes on a map with a dozen ore drills and saw no ore spreading at all, so i assume its still broken. though ive got a modded client and maby someone else should test it too.

on a side note, the most savage match ive ever played was on the map "near ore far" with 1 mine per player. the war of attrition lasted for a good 3 hours but it was a fun and interesting game in its own way

How can you switch the mining logic in the map? I would like to try.

Perhaps we played on a server where the admin changed the mining logic in this way in the RA2 version for that server?

But it is obviously correct for the ore to accumulate over the time the drill is working.

Edited May 13, 2021 by CCCP84

[McPwny]

blah. ive been looking into this and it turns out that global ore growth actually is enabled in ra2. tiberium logic had become so bogus at this point that even the devs didnt understand how it worked anymore i think. there are 5 toggles for it and idk if they all work.

under rules.ini there are: 
[General]
GrowthRate=5            ; minutes between ore (Tiberium) growth
TiberiumGrows=yes       ; Does ore grow denser over time?
TiberiumSpreads=yes     ; Does ore spread into adjacent areas?

[MultiplayerDialogSettings]
TiberiumGrows=yes ; does ore/tiberium/whatever regenerate? (def=yes)

[Riparius]
Growth=2200
GrowthPercentage=.06
Spread=2200
SpreadPercentage=.06

and in the map file there are
[Basic]
TiberiumGrowthEnabled=yes

[SpecialFlags]
TiberiumGrows=yes
TiberiumSpreads=yes

i made a map with an ore patch and 3 ore mines and then tried the map in both vanilla ra2 and the cncnet client at max speed. it turns out that ore does spread in both, but they only spread about 2 tiles in what would have been hours of ingame time. I then turned TiberiumGrows= and TiberiumSpreads= both to '=no' and tested in vanilla. the ore still grew slowly. i then turned them on and set GrowthRate= to 1 and tested. no change. it seems that "GrowthRate=", "TiberiumGrows=", and "TiberiumSpreads=" all do nothing. next i tested the 3 ore types. i started by setting "GrowthPercentage=" and "SpreadPercentage=" both to 1 from 0.06 and found that it made no difference in ore growth. i then tested Growth= and Spread= by setting them both to 50000 from 2200 and found that neither tags changed anything. it seems that the tags "Growth=", "Spread=", "GrowthPercentage=", and "SpreadPercentage=" all also do nothing. next i tested "TiberiumGrowthEnabled=" by setting it to =no and found that it does infact keep ore from spreading at all when set to no. then i tested "TiberiumGrows=" and "TiberiumSpreads=" by setting them both to =no and found that neither of these tags seem to change anything. the only thing i couldnt test was "TiberiumGrows=" under multiplayerdialoguesettings because those cannot be changed from map ini editing, but i assume from the fact that those settings arent even present ingame that it does nothing. so in conclusion, i was wrong and it seems that ore does grow in cncnet, and it also seems that the only tag to affect ore growth at all is "TiberiumGrowthEnabled=" under basic in the mapside ini.

[CCCP84]

The ore is sometimes spread over a radius of up to 3 tiles. But rarely. Usually 1.
Obviously, the mechanism is not working as it should.
It would be great if the team could fix it.

[throstur]

Takes ages, but it grows and spreads further than 1 tile. Tested on Tsunami. Look at ore field on right, starts in sand area only, not on grass, on left, I mined the middle out of it and walled it. I have 6 derricks which explains the cash but you can clearly see how superior oil is to ore in the late game.

And this is what it looks like after a walk to the grocery store and back.

Edited May 24, 2021 by throstur