Big problem with CNCNET's RA2 / YR ore grow algorithm.

[CCCP84]

There is a very big problem with CNCNET's RA2 / YR.

Ore does not accumulate as the drill operates. It accumulates only in a radius of 1 cell from the drill. Such a problem did not exist in the original RA2 / YR.

In the original game, the ore did not disappear if the miner did not collect it. It accumulated and formed large fields of gold.

     In the case of CNCNET’s RA2 / YR, the ore simply disappears when the cells in radius 1 are full. This sucks and shit. So it should not be. This is absolutely wrong. At some stage in the modification of the game, someone killed the correct ore accumulation algorithm and since then the game has been a little bit broken in this aspect. I am extremely convinced that this is one of the priority tasks that needs to be fixed.

Just copy original algorithm from original RA2 v1.006(not modificated) or earlier version.

There are many other problems with game. Nobody tryes to solve them... Its very pity.

@Grant @RaVaGe @dkeeton

[[CC] RaVaGe]

This seems to work differently on a per map basis.
For example on the map Hidden Valley the ore generates just fine and a bit excessively sometimes, while I've noticed that on some other maps it doesn't grow as fast or barely at all.

Edited April 3, 2020 by RaVaGe

[CCCP84]

 I remember good, that on tsunami ~ 4 years ago it worked good. Later it stoped working. Something happened(even on version 1.006, not CNCNET). V1.006 was changed??

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by CCCP84

[[CC] RaVaGe]

v1.006 is specific to Red Alert 2 not Yuri's Revenge.
I've also heard claims around the community that a certain update to RA2/YR caused the ore from generating properly.

There's no way to know for sure without testing, you can let the game run in the background and see if the ore regenerates over time.

Edited April 3, 2020 by RaVaGe

[CCCP84]

Here, most likely, this update did much harm. Now, if the ore is not collected by the miner, then the drill simply does not bring new ore. = loss of money. It is not right.

I remember, earlier, playing on the tsunami, the value of an uninhabited island grew with time, and the island became desirable because a lot of gold was accumulating there. Now island is always empty, because drills do not work. Nonsense.

Are there people on the cnc team who can solve this?

Edited April 3, 2020 by CCCP84

[CCCP84]

8 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

For example on the map Hidden Valley the ore generates just fine and a bit excessively sometimes, while I've noticed that on some other maps it doesn't grow as fast or barely at all.

I looked at the map of Hidden Valley. This is completely different. Ore is mined there quickly, but it also does not spread over long distances. It remains in the limit of radius 1 cell from the drill and lies in a thin layer.

A few years ago, pieces of gold became larger over time, gold began to spread over a large radius. And over time, a large field of gold was forming. And the gold on it acquired the form of concentrated gold, as in a large cluster it always has a look. Now, never does gold looks like this. Because the ore growth algorithms are now broken.

[McPwny]

can confirm that the ore doesnt grow properly anymore

i wonder what in the world they could have done to break the ore

[Sam-I-am]

I see no problem. you just have to wait longer for it to increase more and more. totally normal.

If you want to see it spread over a larger distance, stop your miners aside and wait for a few minutes. The more you wait, the more ore/gold you'll see. But as long as your miners are working, you won't see much of it accumulate.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Sam-I-am

[McPwny]

you can see from the gif that thats not whats happening. it is putting out only a small layer of ore and not stacking like its supposed to. ore is also supposed to spread at a really really slow speed, but i didnt test for that.

[CCCP84]

No, it doesnt spread at all. You can wait forever. Nothing will happen. Rearly some drills can spread for more far distance, it can happen very rearly. And ore layer never will become thick. It always will be thin. And in 95% cases only in 1 cell radius.

But i remember, before it worked normaly. ~4 years ago it worked. Now its broken.

[CCCP84]

The production rate can be easily adjusted with this parameter:

But this is different. This does not affect the spread radius and the thickness of the layer.

Edited April 3, 2020 by CCCP84

[Ra2Nub]

This topic is really interesting to me. The reason for that is because I remember when I was young I played a random map and managed to get ore spread very very far, and these days never managed to see it anymore. This was however on RA2 and not YR... Maybe it got changed in YR?

Someone should check both Vanilla RA2 and Vanilla YR

[cypher]

Interesting topic.

My observation : Sometimes they spread over the 1 cell radius, but it seems like the probability of further spreading is exponentially decreasing, with getting to nearly 0 when it is 2 or even 3 tiles away from the tibre.  In 99% it's just 1 cell radius and the existing ore gets more clunky/rich over time (OreGrows). The speed of the tibre-reproduction seems to be correlating with the ore being mined or not, which is a strange design decision IMHO. Normally this behaviour can be changed by

OreSpreads=yes          ; Does ore spread into
adjacent areas?

This setting still  has impact, so if you set this to "no" the radius seems like it cannot grow over 1 cell radius at all. Interestingly I found some areas of the map still growing to nearby fields. If orespreads is yes something seems to be broken or I don't get it right, because it slows down exponentially like I mentioned before. Maybe it's not so much the TibRe which is not working, but the ore itself used to be spreading over time doesn't it?

Edited April 4, 2020 by cypher

[CCCP84]

41 minutes ago, cypher said:

Normally this behaviour can be changed by

OreSpreads=yes          ; Does ore spread into
adjacent areas?

This setting still  has impact

It seems that all these parameters were needed only in TiberiumSun and earlier games.

In eaelier games, ore grew on its own without any drills. In RA2 / YR, these parameters have no meaning. They do not affect anything.

Edited April 4, 2020 by CCCP84

[cypher]

I tested it. It has impact.

[CCCP84]

did you change to "no"? And what was going on?

 

[cypher]

Like i said " This setting still  has impact, so if you set this to "no" the radius seems like it cannot grow over 1 cell radius at all. Interestingly I found some areas of the map still growing to nearby fields. "

[CCCP84]

with this parameter, yes or no, it does not grow beyond one cell in any case

[cypher]

With parameter yes " Sometimes they spread over the 1 cell radius, but it seems like the probability of further spreading is exponentially decreasing, with getting to nearly 0 when it is 2 or even 3 tiles away from the tibre.  "

I tested it f.e. with 3 tibres, then mine everything out and wait. It spreads over the 1 cell radius (not everytime). Try it with speedmax.

[CCCP84]

All this shin dont work also:

; ******* Tiberium Varieties *******
; There are various kinds of tiberium. This lists their number and
; particulars.

[Tiberiums]
0=Riparius
1=Cruentus
2=Vinifera
3=Aboreus

; Name = display name
; Image = image to use [1=small, 2=large, 3=vine]
; Value = credit value per 'bail'
; Growth = growth rate
; Spread = spread rate
; Power = explosive power per 'bail' (def=0)
; Color = display color of the Tiberium
; Shard = crystal to fly off when chain reacting (def=none)

; This is Ore
[Riparius]
Name=Tiberium Riparius
Image=1
Power=0
Value=25
Growth=2200
GrowthPercentage=.06
Spread=2200
SpreadPercentage=.06
Color=NeonGreen            ; **WARNING**: If you change this color, notify Bret_a

; These are Gems
[Cruentus]
Name=Tiberium Cruentus
Image=2
Value=50
Growth=10000
GrowthPercentage=0
Spread=10000
SpreadPercentage=0
Power=0 ;10
Color=NeonBlue            ; **WARNING**: If you change this color, notify Bret_a
Debris=CRYSTAL1,CRYSTAL2,CRYSTAL3,CRYSTAL4

; This may also be ore - DB
[Vinifera]
Name=Tiberium Vinifera
Image=3
Value=25
Growth=2200
GrowthPercentage=.06
Spread=2200
SpreadPercentage=.06
Power=0 ; 10
Color=NeonBlue        ; **WARNING**: If you change this color, notify Bret_a
Debris=CRYSTAL1,CRYSTAL2,CRYSTAL3,CRYSTAL4

; This might be ore, I'm not certain - DB
[Aboreus]
Name=Tiberium Aboreus
Image=4
Value=25
Growth=2200
GrowthPercentage=.06
Spread=2200
SpreadPercentage=.06
Power=0
Color=NeonBlue        ; **WARNING**: If you change this color, notify Bret_a
Debris=CRYSTAL1,CRYSTAL2,CRYSTAL3,CRYSTAL4

[cypher]

This is wrong information you're spreading .It still has impact. You can do interesting stuff with it, f.e. spread ore from tires after an explosion.

Try it in skirmish with max-speed. It takes a while .

[CCCP84]

13 minutes ago, cypher said:

With parameter yes " Sometimes they spread over the 1 cell radius, but it seems like the probability of further spreading is exponentially decreasing, with getting to nearly 0 when it is 2 or even 3 tiles away from the tibre.  "

I tested it f.e. with 3 tibres, then mine everything out and wait. It spreads over the 1 cell radius (not everytime). Try it with speedmax.

it does not matter. this is not what we need

[cypher]

You seem to be new to programming. It does matter because you have to understand how it works and where the failure is buddy.

[CCCP84]

I don't know anything about programming at all. But changing all these parameters, I found that nothing changes in the game. I just found how to increase the speed of ore mining. But it still does not extend beyond 1 cell.

 

If you have tested it, say, which of this is gold from RA2/YR?

0=Riparius
1=Cruentus
2=Vinifera
3=Aboreus

?

Edited April 4, 2020 by CCCP84

[cypher]

I repeat myself over and over again. Like I said it does spread over 1 cell, but it's seldom and I never observed it getting over 3 tiles away from tibs. Imho it has sth to do with an exponential decrease of probability. I created a map where the debris of a vehicle create ore fields with the parameters you mentioned before.

So maybe start testing again. But anyways - in general this topic is still to be solved, I don't think this ore-behaviour is intentional.