Who would like to see Tiberian Dawn completely redone in the TS engine?

[Timburwolfe]

I have been messing around with the Rules.ini file a bit and thought that with the help of the community, I can recreate EVERYTHING from the first war into the TS engine with more appealing Second War graphics. Everything from units and structures to maps and missions. As an avid player of games like Starcraft and Age of Empires, which allowed players to create their own custom campaigns, I am no stranger to map-making and scenario editing, and I have a pretty good idea of how the ini file works. However, I wont be of much use for making graphics in the TS style, as I haven't got any experience with that, but I can learn by looking at how the TS graphics were made and by looking in the Graphics thread for ideas. So,  who would like to see me go through with this lengthy project?

[Tore]

Dawn of the Tiberium Age: http://cnc-comm.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=53

Return of the Dawn: http://cnc-comm.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=43

 

The idea has been done before. DTA is still being actively developed as well.

[Timburwolfe]

The first link, while it does use the TS engine, does not use many TS style graphics, which is one if the focuses of what I wish to create. Rather, I want to make a better version based on the original graphics that uses the same placement axis as Tiberian Sun, whereas DTA appears to use the C&C95 axis. I do understand that the idea has been done, but perhaps it has not been done the way I intend to do it? I plan to recreate the entirety of the First War in Tiberian Sun, including the maps and missions, while also making some shiny new graphics to really bring the game to life.

[Nyerguds]

...did you check the second link? Because Return of the Dawn is pretty much exactly what you're describing there

 

Also, a complete remake isn't possible; some details like the Airstrike superweapon can't be recreated in the TS engine. And for the campaign missions, that does make a huge difference.

[Timburwolfe]

...did you check the second link? Because Return of the Dawn is pretty much exactly what you're describing there

 

Also, a complete remake isn't possible; some details like the Airstrike superweapon can't be recreated in the TS engine. And for the campaign missions, that does make a huge difference.

Remember the Nod mission to assassinate Tratos in Firestorm? If you destroy the two SAM component towers, two Banshees enter the map, destroy the deployable sensors, then leave the map. I believe this indicates that an airstrike is possible with a little bit of work.

[Nyerguds]

Doubtful; I'm talking about a targetable superweapon, not a unit team programmed to attack specific targets, once.

 

The only thing remotely close I could imagine, using triggers, is somehow deploying a dummy unit (using drop pods as base?) whose very existence on the map somehow triggers a team of air planes specifically targeting that unit type. And while C&C1 has a "built it" trigger for detecting new structure types on the map, I have no idea if doing something like that with units is possible in TS, let alone then making it target that spot.

 

Oh, and it'd inevitably mean losing a unit as the target dummy unit is destroyed.

[Kilkakon]

Perhaps see if the ones above interest you You might even be able to help out if you're super cluey.

[Timburwolfe]

Doubtful; I'm talking about a targetable superweapon, not a unit team programmed to attack specific targets, once.

 

Airstrikes are performed by a single unit programmed to attack a specific location once. If you generate an invisible, insignificant object that a plane is programmed to bomb, wouldn't that work?

[Nyerguds]

As I said, I have no idea. I don't know TS' mission scripting possibilities.

 

Oh, btw... airstrikes in TD are 1-3 planes

[Timburwolfe]

Oh, btw... airstrikes in TD are 1-3 planes

I just got a crazy idea. What if you edit the drop pod and drop pod flight characteristics so that the pod looks like a plane, doesn't descend towards the ground, and holds a limited number of bombs to drop instead of shooting a machine gun? It would be aimed by clicking the point where you would normally want the pods to drop.

[fir3w0rx]

The first link, while it does use the TS engine, does not use many TS style graphics...

I'm sure that from a modder's point of view there are a lot of differences between vanilla Tiberian Dawn and DTA, but from the average gamer's point of view, I really can't see any difference in graphics whatsoever, except that DTA looks a little better.

 

Perhaps see if the ones above interest you You might even be able to help out if you're super cluey.

Yeah this. Why re-invent the wheel when what we currently have is more than good enough, imo. Perhaps ask to join DTA's team and just build on their awesome work. An enhanced version of all, or even just some, of TD's original campaign missions would be great, not just with better graphics, but maybe add a few things to them (eg. an EXTREME difficulty, or something).

 

But if you MUST continue with your idea, I hope you don't end up just adding to ModDB's long list of 'teasers' that will never see the light of day.

[Timburwolfe]

Yeah this. Why re-invent the wheel when what we currently have is more than good enough, imo. Perhaps ask to join DTA's team and just build on their awesome work. An enhanced version of all, or even just some, of TD's original campaign missions would be great, not just with better graphics, but maybe add a few things to them (eg. an EXTREME difficulty, or something).

But if you MUST continue with your idea, I hope you don't end up just adding to ModDB's long list of 'teasers' that will never see the light of day.

The second mod is far more similar to what I had in mind. Recreating the missions in the TS style should be fairly simple, if I can figure out how to get the airstrike working. I think the drop pod idea might be a good starting point. The structures will be the biggest challenge as far as graphics go.

[Nyerguds]

The second mod is far more similar to what I had in mind.

I DID say that :roll:

 

Recreating the missions in the TS style should be fairly simple, if I can figure out how to get the airstrike working. I think the drop pod idea might be a good starting point. The structures will be the biggest challenge as far as graphics go.

You can always contact Reaperrr on PPM and see if you can simply make a campaign for ROTD. Everything is already in there, after all. Heck. I helped make that mod.

 

Oh, btw... airstrikes in TD are 1-3 planes

I just got a crazy idea. What if you edit the drop pod and drop pod flight characteristics so that the pod looks like a plane, doesn't descend towards the ground, and holds a limited number of bombs to drop instead of shooting a machine gun? It would be aimed by clicking the point where you would normally want the pods to drop.

The Drop Pods are mostly hardcoded, as far as I know. In fact I'm fairly sure they are barely more than an animation.

 

A method of using the drop pods to show an "airplane bombing run" animation has been done (see the "Features that CAN'T be implemented for some reason" thread on the Return of the Dawn forum for more info. Actual thread on the subject is here), but has the disadvantage the planes can't be shot down, meaning enemies can't defend against airstrikes.

 

 

[Timburwolfe]

You can always contact Reaperrr on PPM and see if you can simply make a campaign for ROTD. Everything is already in there, after all. Heck. I helped make that mod.

I will do as you suggest and see how it turns out.

 

The Drop Pods are mostly hardcoded, as far as I know. In fact I'm fairly sure they are barely more than an animation.

Drop pod functions as a super weapon, and the pods themselves, I believe, are vehicles. I will double-check the rules.ini to verify.

Actual thread on the subject is here), but has the disadvantage the planes can't be shot down, meaning enemies can't defend against airstrikes.

i'll have a look at the thread. Not being able to shoot down an airstrike is not unlike how you cant defend against ion cannons and nuclear missiles. The airstrike is also slightly less damaging if i'm not mistaken.

[Jacko]

I can remember in TD it was pretty much impossible to shoot down the airstrike unless you had about 500 rocket soldiers anyway. (I am including the fact that the SAMs 'popped down' every time one of the planes were blown up so you could only ever get one of them anyway)

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah, jacko is quite right, the planes pretty much dan't be shot down anyway, so if you can get an animation of them coming in and bombing, then leaving, that'd probably be fine.

 

Well, you said you weren't so savvy with graphics, yeah? So I'd say building missions for RotD would be a good way to go. I remember that mod taking a while to be made, and it was pretty much ALL skirmish, only a handful of multimaps and NO missions. So that could be a cool project that'd be up your alley, just make sure you ask to use their assets etc. Good luck

 

  -Liam

[Nyerguds]

Drop pod functions as a super weapon, and the pods themselves, I believe, are vehicles. I will double-check the rules.ini to verify.

Even if they are, it doesn't mean you can in any way influence how the game uses them.

 

i'll have a look at the thread. Not being able to shoot down an airstrike is not unlike how you cant defend against ion cannons and nuclear missiles. The airstrike is also slightly less damaging if i'm not mistaken.

Uhhhhh. If you don't count the single player nuke (it does roughly 3x as much damage as in multiplay) the Airstrike is the most destructive superweapon in the game. It does loads more than the ion cannon; a 3-plane airstrike can easily take out a construction yard. Neither an ion cannon strike or a multiplayer nuke can do that.

 

Yeah, jacko is quite right, the planes pretty much dan't be shot down anyway, so if you can get an animation of them coming in and bombing, then leaving, that'd probably be fine.

By SAM sites, yes. However, advanced guard towers, mammoth tanks and rocket launchers eat those planes for breakfast.

[Timburwolfe]

I have received the go-ahead from Reaperrr on creating the campaign. I already have the mod and FinalSun, so I will secure some full-size screenshots of the mission maps from TD so that I can make TS versions. Once I have created the maps themselves, I will recreate the initial placements/bases/etc. Then I will add the necessary triggers mission by mission until the campaign is complete. All the resources I require are provided by the mod, so here is my current checklist:

 

- Obtain TD mission map screenshots (terrain)

 

- determine how the map should look in TS graphics.

 

- Screenshot the initial placement of units/buildings at the start of each map

 

- Transfer this placement to the TS perspective to match the original

 

- observe the mission objectives for the TD campaigns

 

- replicate those objectives (if possible) in the Tiberian Sun engine.

 

- Send Reaperrr the beta for review

 

- Resolve any issues presented during review before the first release.

 

- Patch the campaign as necessary after receiving community feedback. More eyes will be able to mark unseen bugs for squashing.

 

- If successful, make bonus campaigns and other goodies for RotD

[Nyerguds]

I have full-size screenshots of all TD missions, and a guide to understanding TD mission scripting.

 

Map pics:

http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/mappics/

(All C&C1 missions. Though I suspect you'll stick to "campaign-gdi" and "campaign-nod" for now )

 

Mission making manual:

http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/cctxt/ccmanual.txt

 

Question, though... what are you going to do with the alternates? C&C has 2-3 alternate choices for practically every mission. TS has no system to support such alternates at all.

 

Heck, the GDI campaign actually splits up into east and west side of the map on missions 4 and 5.

[Jacko]

Heck, the GDI campaign actually splits up into east and west side of the map on missions 4 and 5.

 

Yeah it was cool how they did that,

that and the commando mission with the airstrip skipping the next mission thing.

 

It was a shame they never did stuff like that in any other of the C&C games.

[Timburwolfe]

I have full-size screenshots of all TD missions, and a guide to understanding TD mission scripting.

 

Map pics:

http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/mappics/

(All C&C1 missions. Though I suspect you'll stick to "campaign-gdi" and "campaign-nod" for now )

 

Mission making manual:

http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncstuff/cctxt/ccmanual.txt

 

Question, though... what are you going to do with the alternates? C&C has 2-3 alternate choices for practically every mission. TS has no system to support such alternates at all.

 

Heck, the GDI campaign actually splits up into east and west side of the map on missions 4 and 5.

 

Thanks for the screenies and guide. I will study that accordingly.

 

In both campaigns there were side missions that altered the main one in the selection screen, and i believe the mission to capture Umagon had two choices of where you went after her. I could also make the alternates as separate missions in the campaign selection, assuming that each one would have essentially the same outcome

[Nyerguds]

Yeah, C&C has no missions that affect the next one, except, as Jacko said, for mission 6, where blowing up the correct building (the airstrip) skips mission 7 completely, and if you don't get the correct building, then that building is missing from the base at the start of mission 7. So maybe the pre-mission system could be used for that.

 

(Destroying either the construction yard or refinery still totally cripples the base in mission 7 )

[Timburwolfe]

Yeah, C&C has no missions that affect the next one, except, as Jacko said, for mission 6, where blowing up the correct building (the airstrip) skips mission 7 completely, and if you don't get the correct building, then that building is missing from the base at the start of mission 7. So maybe the pre-mission system could be used for that.

 

(Destroying either the construction yard or refinery still totally cripples the base in mission 7 )

 

Well, assuming I can change mission boundaries on the main mission depending on what objectives were completed, I could possibly use the Pre-mission system to have the player choose their angle of attack. In any case, I can't get the RotD version of FinalSun working, as it can't find the non-existant TIBSUN.mix file (it should have asked me to list the exe, but didn't and i didnt see anything in that config that gave any clue). I will ask Reaperrr if he knows how to fix that, and use the defunct "old refinery/power plant/silo/etc" and TS units as placeholders. Terrain will be the current focus until I get a reply.

[Nyerguds]

If you change the boundaries, you do have to somehow make sure the commando is removed...

[AchromicWhite]

Nah, screw it, let Nod deal with a commando in their base...  xD

  -Liam